Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (Bargnani Situation)

[Harry Palmer]

The Eternal Victim.

Thats my favourite tarot card

It used to be Bargs' card, before society stole it from him while he was tending to wounded puppies.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I try not to care enough to boo individual players. Obviously I don't want loafers, but it's more fun to cheer and celebrate and that's what I want the most out of my experience. Picking on one guy repeatedly seems mean-spirited and overtly obsessive.

[JoeyGsShoulders]

Booing your own player makes no sense, not when there's another 5-12 guys playing that you should boo more.

Anyways, the argument that he makes millions of dollars is irrelevant. Why is it okay to be a worse person just because the other guy is rich? Honestly, it's a game to us but it's his life. It's his job that he has to show up every day for and that he has to think about when he's not working and that he has to train for. Be a decent person and let the guy not dread coming to work.

[orbesnet]

I think Bargnani is going to be traded, but the boo is making Toronto a classless city. I am not sure if players want to sign here.

I disagree, if AB was on any other team:
- was shoved down the fan-base's throat as hard as he's been shoved down raptors' fans throats
- shows no urgency or passion on the court
- plays as if he's a rookie after 7 years
- continues to get minutes

He would be booed anywhere. Personally I wouldn't boo him 'cause that's kind of weird, this board doesn't make up much of those in attendance at the game so it's not just us!

[kirkwood]

I think its an embarrasment, the team is currently winning and making a push for the 8th spot. This is not only affecting Bargnani but its affecting the entire team, evident by the fact almost all his teammates are constantly bringing this up before and after every game, asking the fans to stop.

I can understand booing a player that makes some bone headed plays during a game, boo those specific plays but booing when he enters the game and leaves the game or touches the ball is ridiculous. Its not like this guy got up and demanded a trade and told you all Toronto sucks. You shouldn't boo players based on what kind of money they make either, its not your money and this is the NBA where 100% of the players are millionaires...

I watch the guy right now and not once has he complained about anything, not the boo's, not the city, not the team, not his new role coming off the bench, not the fact he gets about two shots per game now versus 20 before. Put basketball aside for a minute and give the man a break.

You don't have to like the guy, you don't have to cheer for him during games but to stand up and boo every chance you get is an embarrassment to sports in this city. I also have no doubt those booing are all on this message board.

[YogiStewart]

"Boo" is a 3 letter word that, to me, epitomizes those who don't have the acumen to properly communicate their thoughts or feelings. probably 2 steps above what Neanderthals would do to show their displeasure.

"we paid tickets, therefore we have the right to boo!" - words by fans who haven't been to a home game in years.

but let's go with that argument. you pay, therefore it is your right.

so you visit your dentist. the hygienist does her work on your mouth. she's done and you're not satisfied. this isn't the first time that you didn't like the work she did. you pay for your cleaning and, once you are done, you start to boo her. relentlessly. right there, in her work place. "BOOOOOO! YOU SUCK!" you yell.

you go for dinner. order a burger. you don't like it. quite disappointed with it. so you pay your bill, walk into the kitchen and start booing the staff.

in those above cases, if you did that, you would be considered a lunatic.

hell, let's keep it at entertainment. you go see a band. they don't perform the songs you want to hear. one of their guitars is out of tune. they aren't as tight as other bands have been. do you start booing? what if the lead singer is just getting over a throat infection and his voice isn't up to snuff? boo him as well for being 1 week into his tour and not sounding like he did on last year's CD release?

just because you pay for the price of admission, it doesn't give you the Nexus pass to be a jackass. guess that guy who ran on the court last night also had the right because he paid his price for admission, right?

i'm not going to stop the guy to my left from booing. he's not going to stop me from taking a crap in my pants if i want to do that. but ask yourself: would Portland fans - considered to be the class of the NBA - boo Oden during one of his many comeback attempts? you know that the answer is no. so just let the guy be.

[dagger]

just because you pay for the price of admission, it doesn't give you the Nexus pass to be a jackass. guess that guy who ran on the court last night also had the right because he paid his price for admission, right?

i'm not going to stop the guy to my left from booing. he's not going to stop me from taking a crap in my pants if i want to do that. but ask yourself: would Portland fans - considered to be the class of the NBA - boo Oden during one of his many comeback attempts? you know that the answer is no. so just let the guy be.

I love the Nexus pass reference, but I think it "flew" over the heads of most posters here.

[dagger]

You shouldn't boo players based on what kind of money they make either, its not your money and this is the NBA where 100% of the players are millionaires...

It's funny, but 90% of his detractors bring up his salary, and yet many of them keep saying MLSE should spend on luxury tax... "It's not my money, yadda, yadda". Well, if it isn't your money, and it isn't, then maybe it's irrelevant because even if his salary were a lot less, it wouldn't give us any cap space this coming summer. Really, it's weak sauce.

[Ted Lasso]

"Boo" is a 3 letter word that, to me, epitomizes those who don't have the acumen to properly communicate their thoughts or feelings. probably 2 steps above what Neanderthals would do to show their displeasure.

"we paid tickets, therefore we have the right to boo!" - words by fans who haven't been to a home game in years.

but let's go with that argument. you pay, therefore it is your right.

so you visit your dentist. the hygienist does her work on your mouth. she's done and you're not satisfied. this isn't the first time that you didn't like the work she did. you pay for your cleaning and, once you are done, you start to boo her. relentlessly. right there, in her work place. "BOOOOOO! YOU SUCK!" you yell.

you go for dinner. order a burger. you don't like it. quite disappointed with it. so you pay your bill, walk into the kitchen and start booing the staff.

in those above cases, if you did that, you would be considered a lunatic.

hell, let's keep it at entertainment. you go see a band. they don't perform the songs you want to hear. one of their guitars is out of tune. they aren't as tight as other bands have been. do you start booing? what if the lead singer is just getting over a throat infection and his voice isn't up to snuff? boo him as well for being 1 week into his tour and not sounding like he did on last year's CD release?

just because you pay for the price of admission, it doesn't give you the Nexus pass to be a jackass. guess that guy who ran on the court last night also had the right because he paid his price for admission, right?

i'm not going to stop the guy to my left from booing. he's not going to stop me from taking a crap in my pants if i want to do that. but ask yourself: would Portland fans - considered to be the class of the NBA - boo Oden during one of his many comeback attempts? you know that the answer is no. so just let the guy be.

We are about to reach an all-time logic low in this thread.

I can assure you that if the hundreds of people who deemed it appropriate to boo Bargnani had the opportunity to express themselves individually -As in the examples you cite- to Andrea or Bryan Colangelo, they wouldn't boo, they would talk. Just as you would talk to your waiter to express your dissatisfaction with your burger.

[Ted Lasso]

You shouldn't boo players based on what kind of money they make either, its not your money and this is the NBA where 100% of the players are millionaires...

It's funny, but 90% of his detractors bring up his salary, and yet many of them keep saying MLSE should spend on luxury tax... "It's not my money, yadda, yadda". Well, if it isn't your money, and it isn't, then maybe it's irrelevant because even if his salary were a lot less, it wouldn't give us any cap space this coming summer. Really, it's weak sauce.

Except "It's not my money, yadda, yadda" is the justification being put forth for our history of overpaying players.

[dagger]

You shouldn't boo players based on what kind of money they make either, its not your money and this is the NBA where 100% of the players are millionaires...

It's funny, but 90% of his detractors bring up his salary, and yet many of them keep saying MLSE should spend on luxury tax... "It's not my money, yadda, yadda". Well, if it isn't your money, and it isn't, then maybe it's irrelevant because even if his salary were a lot less, it wouldn't give us any cap space this coming summer. Really, it's weak sauce.

Except "It's not my money, yadda, yadda" is the justification being put forth for our history of overpaying players.

But that's on management, not the guys getting paid. Why not boo Fields if it's all about money?

[name_discrep]

The best is ppl continuing to be on the guy now that he's coming off the bench as all the detractors wished for. Except now instead of there not being enough shots on the first unit he's getting the leftovers from Lucas and Anderson who only pass when every opp to shoot has been exhausted. Bargnani isn't helping himself by coasting, but at same point what exactly is expected of him right now? He gets booed before he even gets into games so its not even based on play.

The booing would stop if he had a breakout game, but thats never going to happen with Lucas and Anderson jacking up every touch so this is likely going to get even worse. Which is pathetic since fans should be focused on fact team is playing great, not getting excited about dumping on a guy.

[hillbilly hare]

^^^ No green font?

The band analogy is pretty funny. Actually, yeah, I think I would want to boo if I paid a ton for a concert and got cheated. If we're to consider entertainment a business, and performances a product, then what we're dealing with is Fraud. Or at the very least, deceptive marketing. The singer has a sore throat? That should've been stated before the concert. If that happens in an opera, for instance, they have an understudy ready to step in, and if bad luck strikes twice and the understudy can't perform, refunds are given.

As to individual performers, seeing as we're talking about Andrea and not the whole team, it's happened lots of times that an opera singer, usually a star, can't hit the high note and gets heckled and booed (whistled at, in Europe). That's a pretty surreal experience, when you're surrounded by rich women in furs and guys in tuxes, and all of a sudden the Neanderthals start ragging on the fat lady on stage. And the funny thing is, that the people up in the cheap seat are known as the real experts on opera, know what is and what isn't a good performance, and demand the highest performance from the singers.

If I go to a restaurant and get a crap meal, in a certain sense I "boo" when I demand to see the manager, make my complaints, sometimes heatedly, and then refuse to pay.

Movies? The South Park episode comes to mind, when Kyle demanded his money back after walking out on The Passion. Don't know if Andrea would pull a Mel Gibson and come after me though, screaming obscenities in ancient tongues.

Could we expect as much from the Raptors? Seriously, should we be able to ask for a refund if the product, advertised as professional basketball, doesn't meet that standard? Or Andrea, like the opera singer, shouldn't get heckled and booed? Being Italian, he should understand.

[YogiStewart]

But that's on management, not the guys getting paid. Why not boo Fields if it's all about money?

i just came up with a great way for MLSE to make more money
in the game programs, print each player's contract beside their name. also include stats, like "dollars made per bucket", "dollars made per minutes on the floor", etc.
that way, those fans that are semi-literate can save time and pinpoint which players they should boo.

[DatBoiCapspace]

But that's on management, not the guys getting paid. Why not boo Fields if it's all about money?

i just came up with a great way for MLSE to make more money
in the game programs, print each player's contract beside their name. also include stats, like "dollars made per bucket", "dollars made per minutes on the floor", etc.
that way, those fans that are semi-literate can save time and pinpoint which players they should boo.

Dont be so hard on the "fans" here. This way of thinking which has warped a whole generation of basketball fans is mostly due to Bloggers and sites like RealGM. We are part of the problem! "Jose Calderon for Rudy Gay? What a terrible trade! this will ruin our capspace!"

[YogiStewart]

If I go to a restaurant and get a crap meal, in a certain sense I "boo" when I demand to see the manager, make my complaints, sometimes heatedly, and then refuse to pay.

wow. refuse to pay...
as someone who is very involved in Toronto's food and drink scene, if i saw you pulling the shenanigans you're describing, i would automatically side with the restauranteur, not you. those who demand something should never get what they demand. those who politely request and look for resolution should hopefully have their problems addressed. mistakes can happen and everyone has an off night. it is how one addresses the off night - that is what's important. a restaurant should comp your meal. you should not demand to be comped. and if Andrea is dogging it, he should address it an apologize. we should not be booing him and demanding an apology (or his head)

Could we expect as much from the Raptors? Seriously, should we be able to ask for a refund if the product, advertised as professional basketball, doesn't meet that standard? Or Andrea, like the opera singer, shouldn't get heckled and booed? Being Italian, he should understand.

ah yes, being Italian, he should understand. and perhaps we should start to cheer for Jonas in a way that "his people" would understand? same with Gay and Lowry, I guess? come one, dude...

and if you want sporting events to work where you can demand a refund based on a player or team's outcome, then you really are nuts. maybe demand refunds if you don't like how a movie ends. demand a refund from Wonderland because there wasn't enough excitement or "wonder". demand a refund on part of your wedding expenses from your wife's family because you didn't dig how she banged you last night. if you want, i can insert more ridiculous examples. but you paid to go to an entertainment event. if you were not entertained, you don't go again. but the term "caveat emptor" applies appropriately to one who buys a ducat to a sporting event. you are not guaranteed to be entertained. you are not guaranteed to see a win. it is the lottery ticket of entertainment. and you most certainly don't boo the Lotto 6/49 attendant when you pay good money to win $15 million and your ticket doesn't win, do you?

[5DOM]

I think we should boo Quincy Acy because he's getting paid close to 7 digit figure for sitting on the bench. BOOOO

[Too Late Crew]

You shouldn't boo players based on what kind of money they make either, its not your money and this is the NBA where 100% of the players are millionaires...

It's funny, but 90% of his detractors bring up his salary, and yet many of them keep saying MLSE should spend on luxury tax... "It's not my money, yadda, yadda". Well, if it isn't your money, and it isn't, then maybe it's irrelevant because even if his salary were a lot less, it wouldn't give us any cap space this coming summer. Really, it's weak sauce.

Not true

His salary does matter.

Yes the team may indicate they will go into the tax. Let's see what happens when it actually comes to to do itIf they will actually go into the tax let's see how they feel about having to pay a guy essentially 12 Million dollars plus to get him for the MLE. Yes that's what happens when you are over the tax that guy you wanted to sign to the 6 million dollar MLE now costs you 12M because of tax.

Outside of the tax implications its not unreasonable to expect production for your $. Be that production in return for the lost opportunity cost that Bargs salary represents or production for the $ you spend on a ticket to the game. At this point he is being paid 10M fans are paying 100s of dollars to go watch him come into the season out of shape, play poorly and frankly not appear to give much effort.

I personally wouldn't continue to boo him every single game just to boo him. But I think that the boos are only partly directed at Bargs. When he came back after the trade deadline The boos are directed at BC for his continued horrible management of this team and Bargs.

The Bargs fanboys love to defend him with the "its not his fault" line. Yet in large part Bargs is the one who controls if he's booed or not. We've seen it in the past with other players. If he came out and dove on the floor or crashed the boards the boos would either stop or subside. Its obvious that he's no longer wanted here. Its obvious he no longer wants to BE here. But its still your job and you have to at least try.

Jose was gone..traded for Chandler. There is no clearer signal that you don't have a future with this team yet the guy came back and gave effort even while everyone knew he was on his way out next good chance. Being on the trade block is not a get out of jail free card to just stop trying.

[Ted Lasso]

But that's on management, not the guys getting paid. Why not boo Fields if it's all about money?

Because it's not all about money. There are a number of factors involved. We've been building towards this day with Bargnani for a long time now. And frankly i believe it's more Bryan Colangelo's doing than Andrea's.

[Ted Lasso]

I think we should boo Quincy Acy because he's getting paid close to 7 digit figure for sitting on the bench. BOOOO

You know, we could be dissecting the Fulham-Stoke game right now.