Globe and Mail: Can Tim Leiweke save the Toronto Raptors?

[Yosemite Dan]

Why in this city (from the fans to MLSE to TL) insist that the formula for a successful franchise is akin to Einstein's theory of relativity?

It's not that complicated and should be even easier in Toronto where you don't have payroll issues. Hire a good management team and coaching staff who builds the team the right way and you will be successful. it's pretty **** simple. There are no external factors that will impede that kind of planning. The Jays were pretty horrible from 1977 to 1982 which is normal for a new franchise but Gillick needed time and did his thing, and then from 1983 to 1993 they were a model franchise, every year they were a contender and were the preeminent franchise in baseball for that 6 year run from 1987 to 1993. Players came from everywhere and wanted to play here and the best thing about it? There was never any excuses about Toronto not being a preferred destination or our schedule always sucks. That stuff was never even mentioned.

Even TL mentioning those things not being excuses is an excuse. Just don't bring it up at all. In fact just say the past is the past and that's where it should stay. And forget the Drake hiring and trying to get all star games here as an excuse that's the way to build a winner and will show that the city should be taken seriously because just by doing that you are implying that city and franchise are inferior and need these cosmetic crutches to compete.

Remember 3 years ago when the Leafs used that excuse that players didn't want to play in Toronto because of too much pressure from fans and media. Our media may be the one of the softest on the planet, you want tough then go to Montreal or NY and fans in the ACC barely have the energy to clap after a goal if they made it back to thier seats on time. You don't hear that excuse now with the Leafs becoming successful.

You think players like living in Detroit (the bankrupt toilet bowl of America) yet the Tigers have been successful for years. You think basketball players are tickled pink about living in Oklahoma City or Indiana nine months a year which has great shopping if you love cowboy hats and denim jackets. You never hear the excuses from those cities that they are unattractive to players and they can't compete. I've been to Indiana, if you wanna catch up on your sleep then that's the place to go.

What I think MLSE and TL should do is just shut the hell up and hire the right people and let your results do the talking. If the titles were based on verbal diarrhea we would have multiple rings by now.

[hankscorpioLA]

Perhaps my view is slanted because I live in LA and I saw first-hand how Leiweke operates. When the whole NFL thing was going down, I remember thinking, "why can't we have a guy like this in Toronto?" When he left AEG, the very first thought I had was "Wouldn't it be awesome if somehow MLSE was able to hire this guy? But nahhhhh" When it was announced that he was hired by MLSE, I was driving on the freeway and was so excited I immediately started fist-pumping and hollering out the window. The first thing I did when I got home was come to this board to share how excited I was - not just for the Raptors, but for the city of Toronto.

So suffice to say, when I read some of the things people have written in this thread and elsewhere, I get a little frustrated...but I also sort of have to shake my head and laugh.

IMHO Tim Leiweke is not the one with something to prove here. His personal track record is more impressive than the entire collective track record of MLSE. When MLSE approached him, they undoubtedly did it by first trying to assess if he would have any interest in the job. It wasn't our choice to hire him. It was his choice to come here.


Maybe its a good time for a refresher

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/a ... e11590800/


"After high school, Leiweke worked at a deli and a bakery and attended college at night school, but never graduated."

- people want to portray this guy as a slick marketing hack in the mold of Colangelo...yet their origins could not be more different. Tim Leiweke made himself into what he is on his own.

"The Minnesota Timberwolves expansion franchise is approved. Leiweke joins the organization as a vice-president and helped the team establish a new NBA attendance record, drawing over one million fans in its inaugural 1989-90 season."

- Leiweke knows cold. He knows difficult destinations. He's not just an LA guy.

"At the urging of NBA commissioner David Stern, Leiweke takes the job of president with the Denver Nuggets, whose sagging attendance was quickly turned around. While in Denver, Leiweke helps negotiate the relocation of the NHL’s Quebec Nordiques to Colorado, while guiding the initial development and design of the Pepsi Center."

- a second cold-weather, less-than-desireable location and again he is successful...and as soon as he leaves, the franchise starts to fall apart again and doesn't recover until they get Melo 8 years later. Plus this also shows that even before he came to LA, he was on the NBA's radar


Let me conclude by saying that I have no issue with people wanting to reserve judgement on Leiweke in Toronto.

I'm just not one of them.

MLSE has been a massive turd of an organization for a long time. Its record of ineptitude is, quite frankly, shocking. Toronto deserves better. And for the first time in a long time, I believe we have gotten something better.

But even if you aren't sold on Leiweke, based on his ENTIRE track record, I'd say he's earned more than 6 months to prove himself.

[MEDIC]

i'm not saying it's easy to do what lieweke did in LA but toronto is a much harder market to succeed in and it seems like lots of people with great track records (colangelo, burke) failed here already. players are dying to pay in LA anyway. it's not like he turned the bobcats around.

dude just reminds me a lot of colangelo in that he talks a whole bunch of big talk and makes a bunch of sweeping statements which are never about anything substantive.

i'll re-evaluate him after a year but so far he just sounds like a sleazy vacuum cleaner salesman.

There is nothing about TL that reminds me of Colangelo. They seem like polar opposites really.

[Neutral 123]

not gonna make a judgment yet but saying Bryan colangelo didnt try to make us a winner is foolish.. he tried, his moves were just short sighted and idiotic. Babcock was a better example of not trying like for example the vc trade and of course charlie v, graham, and hoffa.

Masai who is a leiweke hire seems more strategic and actually is aware, so we'll see im semi hopeful we can finally turn this thing around

BC paid a lot of lip service, did a lot of jumping up and down, but in the end, I don't see how he tried to create a winner. He had one all star inherited in his whole time in Toronto, and left the team with none. What sort of winning is any team going to do by committing to mediocre players?

[MEDIC]

And by the way people, the quote " We cannot be afraid of winning. For too long here, we’ve been afraid of expectations, and they’ve crushed us. We’ve been afraid of winning, and it has destroyed us."

isn't some marketing ploy. It's real talk. Our organization has never put pressure on themselves by demanding a championship . No one running our franchise ever wanted the pressure of "we need to win a championship, that is our goal and that is what we'll do". It's a lot easier to not put that pressure on yourself & not have to face fans and media if you fail. Tim's ready to face the pressure, he's made it known what he wants & he's acting towards that goal.

Nice translation. That's kind of what I got too.

He's basically saying the organization has been afraid of the hard work & commitment it takes to win. They've been a soft.....saying they want to win, but not willing to commit themselves to the hard work and attitude needed.

Basically LA has been pushing everyone to be Kobe while we've been fine with being Bargnani.

[Neutral 123]

wtf does this actually mean?

We cannot be afraid of winning. For too long here, we’ve been afraid of expectations, and they’ve crushed us. We’ve been afraid of winning, and it has destroyed us.

sounds like pure hollywood hype that means nothing.

anyone want to try to justify TL's claim?

It's an odd statement, but it's true. How many people here for instance would be thrilled if the team got the eighth seed, or could win 40 games? This has now been the goal for many fans here for YEARS! Any suggestion to blow the team up is met with all sorts of fright... Fear of winning? Might be so.

[hankscorpioLA]

wtf does this actually mean?

We cannot be afraid of winning. For too long here, we’ve been afraid of expectations, and they’ve crushed us. We’ve been afraid of winning, and it has destroyed us.

sounds like pure hollywood hype that means nothing.

anyone want to try to justify TL's claim?

It's an odd statement, but it's true. How many people here for instance would be thrilled if the team got the eighth seed, or could win 40 games? This has now been the goal for many fans here for YEARS! Any suggestion to blow the team up is met with all sorts of fright... Fear of winning? Might be so.

That's one way to look at it.

But I say just look at this forum.

Raptors fans are like abused children. We are damaged. We are afraid to love. We feel like whenever things get good, its just a set up for someone to come along and smack us across the face. Every time we think something good is happening, it turns to crap.

I don't know how that kind of situation affects the organization, but I have to believe that it does.

[Neutral 123]

wtf does this actually mean?



sounds like pure hollywood hype that means nothing.

anyone want to try to justify TL's claim?

It's an odd statement, but it's true. How many people here for instance would be thrilled if the team got the eighth seed, or could win 40 games? This has now been the goal for many fans here for YEARS! Any suggestion to blow the team up is met with all sorts of fright... Fear of winning? Might be so.

That's one way to look at it.

But I say just look at this forum.

Raptors fans are like abused children. We are damaged. We are afraid to love. We feel like whenever things get good, its just a set up for someone to come along and smack us across the face. Every time we think something good is happening, it turns to crap.

I don't know how that kind of situation affects the organization, but I have to believe that it does.

I see it too, but to me it stems from ridiculous expectations to begin with. For those that want to keep this group together, what are their expectations? So many seem convinced this will be a playoff team this season. Why? That isn't where they were last year, and with pretty much nothing in roster improvements, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to expect the playoffs. How much upside is left in this group for the future? Raps fans are slapping themselves across the face imo.

I'd say there is exactly one time when things were going well and turned to crap, and that's when T-Mac left. Other than that, everything else pretty much needed to happen.

[MEDIC]

..... I say just look at this forum.

Raptors fans are like abused children. We are damaged. We are afraid to love. We feel like whenever things get good, its just a set up for someone to come along and smack us across the face. Every time we think something good is happening, it turns to crap.

I don't know how that kind of situation affects the organization, but I have to believe that it does.

haha. So true.

[MEDIC]

I see it too, but to me it stems from ridiculous expectations to begin with. For those that want to keep this group together, what are their expectations? So many seem convinced this will be a playoff team this season. Why? That isn't where they were last year, and with pretty much nothing in roster improvements, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to expect the playoffs. How much upside is left in this group for the future? Raps fans are slapping themselves across the face imo.

I'd say there is exactly one time when things were going well and turned to crap, and that's when T-Mac left. Other than that, everything else pretty much needed to happen.

Some people see Memphis/ Indiana potential in this team. A defensive oriented team that has a solid starting core with no real superstar.

Other people want nothing to do with that. They want to drat the next superstar.

[douggood]

TL was the biggest acquisition in the recent history of the raptors/mlse, finally having a top down management system is important. No more BC or Burke coming up with a plan and submitting to board for approval. Raptors fans have for so long wanted a brash owner like Cuban to come here, and he is the closest thing to that.

[MEDIC]

TL was the biggest acquisition in the recent history of the raptors/mlse, finally having a top down management system is important. No more BC or Burke coming up with a plan and submitting to board for approval. Raptors fans have for so long wanted a brash owner like Cuban to come here, and he is the closest thing to that.

True. I think people underestimate the importance of the organizational change. Not only did we add a top notch executive, but we also added a president that is an expert in the sports industry (unlike Peddie). We have also put our GM in a position to solely focus on the team. BC wore too many hats when he was here. The GM shouldn't have to worry about marketing and ticket sales. They should only worried about putting a winning product on the floor.

[Neutral 123]

I see it too, but to me it stems from ridiculous expectations to begin with. For those that want to keep this group together, what are their expectations? So many seem convinced this will be a playoff team this season. Why? That isn't where they were last year, and with pretty much nothing in roster improvements, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to expect the playoffs. How much upside is left in this group for the future? Raps fans are slapping themselves across the face imo.

I'd say there is exactly one time when things were going well and turned to crap, and that's when T-Mac left. Other than that, everything else pretty much needed to happen.

Some people see Memphis/ Indiana potential in this team. A defensive oriented team that has a solid starting core with no real superstar.

Other people want nothing to do with that. They want to drat the next superstar.

Indiana and Memphis have several all stars. The Raptors have NO STARS at all. Hell, the Raptors have no one better than Hibbert, Paul or even a healthy Granger! Furthermore, a team like Indiana never really got that bad, but they still rebuilt through the draft. They managed to do well with lower picks, but they did EXACTLY what the Raps need to do.

They got rid of their vets lol, to the Raps, for draft picks. This roster is what it is. We aren't talking about a bunch of inexperienced players with the potential for a ton of upside. There's absolutely no reason to believe that this 30 something win team is going to make a huge jump into becoming a mid 55s win team and an actual threat to do anything in the playoffs. Right now, they aren't even projected to make the playoffs at all.

[Neutral 123]

TL was the biggest acquisition in the recent history of the raptors/mlse, finally having a top down management system is important. No more BC or Burke coming up with a plan and submitting to board for approval. Raptors fans have for so long wanted a brash owner like Cuban to come here, and he is the closest thing to that.

True. I think people underestimate the importance of the organizational change. Not only did we add a top notch executive, but we also added a president that is an expert in the sports industry (unlike Peddie). We have also put our GM in a position to solely focus on the team. BC wore too many hats when he was here. The GM shouldn't have to worry about marketing and ticket sales. They should only worried about putting a winning product on the floor.

BC's issue was less about poor execution as it was about a flawed vision.

[Scase]

wtf does this actually mean?



sounds like pure hollywood hype that means nothing.

anyone want to try to justify TL's claim?

lol

he's a promoter. Who just hired a rapper to help his promoting. We'll be hearing all sorts of great stuff like this from now on. Won't even surprise me if he starts showing up with WWE intro music

Yeah....I especially like how he "promoted" the Kings to a Stanley Cup championship.

I'm sorry but why does he get all the credit and none goes to Lombardi, the GM who actually built the team?

[hankscorpioLA]

lol

he's a promoter. Who just hired a rapper to help his promoting. We'll be hearing all sorts of great stuff like this from now on. Won't even surprise me if he starts showing up with WWE intro music

Yeah....I especially like how he "promoted" the Kings to a Stanley Cup championship.

I'm sorry but why does he get all the credit and none goes to Lombardi, the GM who actually built the team?

I said that in response to someone saying he's a promoter.

Of course Lombardi gets credit...but so does Leiweke. That's all.

[MEDIC]

I see it too, but to me it stems from ridiculous expectations to begin with. For those that want to keep this group together, what are their expectations? So many seem convinced this will be a playoff team this season. Why? That isn't where they were last year, and with pretty much nothing in roster improvements, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to expect the playoffs. How much upside is left in this group for the future? Raps fans are slapping themselves across the face imo.

I'd say there is exactly one time when things were going well and turned to crap, and that's when T-Mac left. Other than that, everything else pretty much needed to happen.

Some people see Memphis/ Indiana potential in this team. A defensive oriented team that has a solid starting core with no real superstar.

Other people want nothing to do with that. They want to drat the next superstar.

Indiana and Memphis have several all stars. The Raptors have NO STARS at all. Hell, the Raptors have no one better than Hibbert, Paul or even a healthy Granger! Furthermore, a team like Indiana never really got that bad, but they still rebuilt through the draft. They managed to do well with lower picks, but they did EXACTLY what the Raps need to do.

They got rid of their vets lol, to the Raps, for draft picks. This roster is what it is. We aren't talking about a bunch of inexperienced players with the potential for a ton of upside. There's absolutely no reason to believe that this 30 something win team is going to make a huge jump into becoming a mid 55s win team and an actual threat to do anything in the playoffs. Right now, they aren't even projected to make the playoffs at all.

Derozan continues to improve.

Jonas will improve significantly 2 years from now.

Rudy has always put up borderline allstar numbers.

We have more players to draft & more trades to make. Where would Indy be without Hibbert, George & West? None of these guys were top 5 picks. George was the only lottery pick & he went 10th.

Like Masai said.......we have to draft well no matter what pick we have.......1st, 3rd, 10th, 15th, 25th....

[TheGoodDoctor]

I would love to dream like we're the next IND in the making; I really would.

[bananaman]

The Raptor name is unique in professional sports, which is why I like it. Also dinosaurs are awesome.

[J-Roc]

The Raptor name is unique in professional sports, which is why I like it. Also dinosaurs are awesome.

Those dinosaurs didn't handle a little global warming as well as we are.