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i had a interesting conversation with a guy on xbox live . We started talking ball and he said something that really got me thinking. He said Kyle Lowry might be the worst starting PG in the NBA and me beeing a raptors fan i started to defend Kyle without even thinking.

J. Teague
R. Rondo
D. William
K. Walker
D. Rose
K. Irving
J. Calderon
T. Lawson
B. Jennings
S. Curry
P. Beverley
G. Hill
C. Paul
S. Blake
M. Conley
M. Chalmers
L. Ridnour
R. Rubio
J. Holiday
R. Felton
R. Westbrook
J. Nelson
M. Carter-Williams
E. Bledsoe
D. Lillard
G. Vasquez
T. Parker
J. Lucas III
J. Wall


Kyle Lowry is better then 5-6 players from the list above. I really liked the trade we did to get Lowry but now that hes on our team i only see him as a three pointer shooter who cant run a pick and roll or shoot mid range shots. This is a contract year for him and he hasn't shown me the ability to score the ball effectively .PLUS i question his leadership abilities he always screams at Jonas lol

WTF happened to him, I know everyone says he got neutered, but when he first got here he was dominating games. Now he is just pure garbage.

I say he is better than at least 10 of those guys and at the same level as a few more. Now I think KLow can score more if needed but that isn't his role on this team. I am hoping he continues the way he has been playing lately trying to be a facilitator and get others scoring rather than watching DD and Rudy ISO. Casey obviously changed something in how the offense was being run the last little while and the ball is moving. Lowry has been more of a factor.

Also, considering Jonas only really sees the ball from either him or Amir I wouldn't think he is a detriment to his development. He may actually be trying to get Jonas to learn something.

gamer1035 wrote:WTF happened to him, I know everyone says he got neutered, but when he first got here he was dominating games. Now he is just pure garbage.

exactly my point , he takes like 10 shots a game in which 7 of them are 3s . its just sad that our Organization actully called this men "our PG of the future"

John Lucas the turd is starting in Utah.... So I guess Lowry has that going for him

basketball royalty wrote:I say he is better than at least 10 of those guys and at the same level as a few more. Now I think KLow can score more if needed but that isn't his role on this team. I am hoping he continues the way he has been playing lately trying to be a facilitator and get others scoring rather than watching DD and Rudy ISO. Casey obviously changed something in how the offense was being run the last little while and the ball is moving. Lowry has been more of a factor.

Also, considering Jonas only really sees the ball from either him or Amir I wouldn't think he is a detriment to his development. He may actually be trying to get Jonas to learn something.

then we should have just kept Calderon if all we need Lowry to do is get everyone involved lol

TooHood wrote:

basketball royalty wrote:I say he is better than at least 10 of those guys and at the same level as a few more. Now I think KLow can score more if needed but that isn't his role on this team. I am hoping he continues the way he has been playing lately trying to be a facilitator and get others scoring rather than watching DD and Rudy ISO. Casey obviously changed something in how the offense was being run the last little while and the ball is moving. Lowry has been more of a factor.

Also, considering Jonas only really sees the ball from either him or Amir I wouldn't think he is a detriment to his development. He may actually be trying to get Jonas to learn something.

then we should have just kept Calderon if all we need Lowry to do is get everyone involved lol

Calderons problem was being bad defensively. KLow is generally a strong defender, good rebounder for a PG and as a PG if he is getting guys involved I am happy. Offensively we have options anyways. Rudy and DD get their shats up. Then it would be nice to get Jonas and Amir getting more involved in the offense. I am ok with Lowry not scoring as much as he can but being the leader on the floor.

Attitude and injury issues aside and all contracts being equal, the guys I'd rank behind Lowry are:

Blake, Chalmers, Burke, Ridnour, Beverly, Nelson, and maybe George Hill. A few others are on about the same level, but I'd comfortably rank Lowry between 20 and 25. His crabby attitude and injury history don't exactly help. Nobody's going to want to sign this guy for more than he's making now (except maybe the Raptors). With 20 teams already having a better point guard and the tanking that goes on around the league, I just don't see it. Let's hope that the Raptors don't fall into the trap, or - better yet - trade him to some desperate contender whose point guard gets injured.

I don't know what there is to like about trading last year's first rounder for him (even if you assume that it would have been the 13th pick).

Come on, not even close... he's great in many aspects of the game. He's not having a spectacular shooting year but his 3-pt shot is solid, he's a great rebounding guard but there's a bit of diminishing returns on the Raptors because we have good rebounders at every position now. He's not turning the ball over much at all and assisting at a good rate, and he's stealing the ball almost twice a game. He hasn't really taken over many games so far but he's been very reliable.

The players playing better than Lowry right now are Chris Paul, Ricky Rubio, Eric Bledsoe, Mike Conley, and Ty Lawson. Rondo might be better than Lowry but he's coming back from a big injury. There are maybe 5 other PG playing on the same level as Lowry, and then everyone else is below him.

How can you say Derrick Rose is a better PG right now? John Lucas is terrible. Westbrook almost averages more turnovers than assists right now. Deron Williams is garbage. Brandon Jennings is not better than Lowry at all. I could go on. People are underrating Lowry because he's not scoring as much as some other point guards. But he's still very good.

I'm not Lowry's biggest fan, but the hate we have on this board for our own players is beyond ridiculous. His play the last few games has been reasonably strong, and if that's indicative where he's headed, he's a middle of the pack starter. Forget reputation and flash - which is what some of the others have, but who aren't contributing to any team success. And a lot of those point guards are making a lot more money.

TooHood wrote:

gamer1035 wrote:WTF happened to him, I know everyone says he got neutered, but when he first got here he was dominating games. Now he is just pure garbage.

exactly my point , he takes like 10 shots a game in which 7 of them are 3s . its just sad that our Organization actully called this men "our PG of the future"

He doesn't have to carry as much of the offensive load as he use to in the past. For better or for worse, Demar and Rudy are taking the shots. Also don't forget that his "domination" of games got him injured pretty early in the season. I don't think he's playing as bad as people are saying.

if he hits his 3's...he's ok-decent and that's really it.

otherwise i don't understand how a pg can't turn the corner on any defender on a pick and roll. he's strictly east/west right now. and any pg that can't feed the big on a pick and roll isn't really a pg since the pick and roll is the most basic and most used nba set.

i can't help but think if we had a guy that could run pick and roll and can actually penetrate from time to time, we wouldn't be seeing so much iso rudy + demar and would actually have ball movement.

dagger wrote:I'm not Lowry's biggest fan, but the hate we have on this board for our own players is beyond ridiculous. His play the last few games has been reasonably strong, and if that's indicative where he's headed, he's a middle of the pack starter. Forget reputation and flash - which is what some of the others have, but who aren't contributing to any team success. And a lot of those point guards are making a lot more money.

I agree. Didn't he have 37 assists over 6 turnovers the past 4 games? Thats not bad at all.

KL is a really nice 3rd option-style PG who would look great on a team which had an inside-out big or a team with a 2 who could run PnR. Like his two ex-teams, Memphis and Houston

calderon, jennings, bev, hill, blake, chalmers, ridnour, felton, nelson, carter-williams, vasquez, lucas... no.

I would put him on par with some of those guys, and better than half of them.

Fat, Bulldog unchained Lowry was a beast.

Kylederon, kind-of-fit, 4th option Lowry looks so-so.

djsunyc wrote:if he hits his 3's...he's ok-decent and that's really it.

otherwise i don't understand how a pg can't turn the corner on any defender on a pick and roll. he's strictly east/west right now. and any pg that can't feed the big on a pick and roll isn't really a pg since the pick and roll is the most basic and most used nba set.

i can't help but think if we had a guy that could run pick and roll and can actually penetrate from time to time, we wouldn't be seeing so much iso rudy + demar and would actually have ball movement.

Lowry turns the corner on the PnR all the time. He isn't all that effective when he does (because he doesn't have that hesitation/linger in the lane skill like Nash/Paul) but it definitely happens many times a game. Lowry is also able to basically penetrate at will, albeit with mixed results. For some reason Casey likes to take the ball out of his hands and initiate through other guys.

Secondly, the PnR isn't a play that's designed exclusively to hit the roll man. It's just a way to initiate offense and get the defense moving. The ballhandler attacking out of it can be very effective. Additionally, JV at this point is completely incapable of catching the ball on the move in the PnR when there's no open lane to the hoop.

shmoosicle wrote:Come on, not even close... he's great in many aspects of the game. He's not having a spectacular shooting year but his 3-pt shot is solid, he's a great rebounding guard but there's a bit of diminishing returns on the Raptors because we have good rebounders at every position now. He's not turning the ball over much at all and assisting at a good rate, and he's stealing the ball almost twice a game. He hasn't really taken over many games so far but he's been very reliable.

The players playing better than Lowry right now are Chris Paul, Ricky Rubio, Eric Bledsoe, Mike Conley, and Ty Lawson. Rondo might be better than Lowry but he's coming back from a big injury. There are maybe 5 other PG playing on the same level as Lowry, and then everyone else is below him.

How can you say Derrick Rose is a better PG right now? John Lucas is terrible. Westbrook almost averages more turnovers than assists right now. Deron Williams is garbage. Brandon Jennings is not better than Lowry at all. I could go on. People are underrating Lowry because he's not scoring as much as some other point guards. But he's still very good.

lol you my friend are crazy if u think Westbrooke is garbage. Deron willam is having a bad year but still better then Lowry. Lowry in my eyes is bottom 20-25 like someone said above

What is wrong with this board, the more we win the more they turn on our player, the more they underrate them ... " Derozen worst shooting guard" .. " Gallo and Deng better then Gay".... and know " Is Lowry worst starting point guard in the league" .... What is up with the drama ..

dagger wrote:I'm not Lowry's biggest fan, but the hate we have on this board for our own players is beyond ridiculous. His play the last few games has been reasonably strong, and if that's indicative where he's headed, he's a middle of the pack starter. Forget reputation and flash - which is what some of the others have, but who aren't contributing to any team success. And a lot of those point guards are making a lot more money.

Our fans hate winning and successes that is why they hate and underrate our players ..