OT: Return of "The Process"

[ontnut]

It’s about “the process,” a word Babcock used over and over again. It’s the vision he laid out to the MLSE board, brutally. It the only path he sees for the Leafs.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/mike-babcock-claims-no-lying-to-sabres--brings-the--pain--for-maple-leafs-164331010.html

Man, the MLSE board must be having a strange case of Deja Vu. First BC (and to an extent, MU) pushing this "It's a process" line, now the new golden boy.

As it relates to the Raptors, I'm happy to see the embracing, and mixing, of veteran leadership (Babcock) and new ideas (Dubas, Shanahan) by MLSE. For all that we gripe about, they've done a good job of doling out the $ for the best available management teams at the time. Hired the best peoplem with the best ideasm that they could. Yes the meddle now and again, but I dare say we could be in a much worse position.

I think that's the hope we all have for the Raptors. When we signed MU back from Denver, we all had a great sense of hope - that the MU era would completely reverse the BC era and that MU would be the voice of "new ideas". And in some ways, we hope(d) that the Raptors situation would mirror what's happening with the Leafs now. I just find it particularly interesting that the Leafs, and not the Raptors (yet), are the ones taking the more proactive approach to building from the bottom all the way up to management; because rebuilding a NHL franchise with 20+ players is a lot more difficult than rebuilding a NBA franchise with 12 players and ~2 guaranteed new picks every year. Patience is key, and it seems like rebuilding the right way is priority #1 now with the Leafs. Maybe this will extend to the Raps.

I do hope this is a sign that MLSE realized the value of having a top tier management staff, and that we do find some excellent assistant coaches, if not indeed a fantastic head coach, for the Raptors.

[kidr1211]

Babcock and shanny will build a contender before MU if we continue on the mediocre path we're on.

[RedX]

Babcock and shanny will build a contender before MU if we continue on the mediocre path we're on.

And what are you basing this one? We haven't seen anything yet this offseason and it's expected that big changed will be made. Beside this, all of MU's moves have netted us a positive return or assets.

[deeps6x]

I have to agree. MU could still surprise me this summer, but I was very disappointed that he didn't take the obvious path and fire Casey when his players quit on him in the playoffs. No matter which way you were going to go from there development wise, (build/teardown), step 1 needed (needs) to be to get the proper coach in place.


So... with that in mind, and seeing MLSE break the bank and pay more for a coach in the league than has ever been paid for a coach in the league EVER, .... shouldn't they (and MU) be at least considering breaking the bank for a Raptors coach?


As for the Process, NOW is the perfect time to flip all of your quasi stars for high draft picks and do a legitimate ground up rebuild. Tank next season for another top 10 draft pick, hopefully have two of them with the NYK/DEN pick, and then you will also have the cap space to chase 2 max contract stars in 2017. And if you can't lure any, take another year and tank for one more top ten pick. Build the team through the draft and only then, attempt to add to it with free agency.

[Indiana Jones]

I have to agree. MU could still surprise me this summer, but I was very disappointed that he didn't take the obvious path and fire Casey when his players quit on him in the playoffs. No matter which way you were going to go from there development wise, (build/teardown), step 1 needed (needs) to be to get the proper coach in place.


So... with that in mind, and seeing MLSE break the bank and pay more for a coach in the league than has ever been paid for a coach in the league EVER, .... shouldn't they (and MU) be at least considering breaking the bank for a Raptors coach?


As for the Process, NOW is the perfect time to flip all of your quasi stars for high draft picks and do a legitimate ground up rebuild. Tank next season for another top 10 draft pick, hopefully have two of them with the NYK/DEN pick, and then you will also have the cap space to chase 2 max contract stars in 2017. And if you can't lure any, take another year and tank for one more top ten pick. Build the team through the draft and only then, attempt to add to it with free agency.

Having the cap space to sign max players is great, provided there are max players available who are willing to sign in Toronto. Considering the Raptors have NEVER been a destination for the most sought after free agents, I think it's rather dubious to put faith in that kind of a strategy.

[Tacoma]

Return???? LOL, "The Process" not only never left, Masai turned it into an art form for the ages. To quote Masai from Wolstat's article from 2 weeks ago

"I think it’s a process and we’re building something over the last couple years, [Masai] said... We have to learn how to win. And this is part of the process... we want to keep building and I think the process is you sometimes get kicked in the face.. So there’s a process of meetings we’ve set up, honestly, and we’re going to wait. I think I’d be coming out today and saying, ‘You know what, coach Casey is not going to be our coach.’ I can’t, it’s not, to me it’s a process.” ... and on and on...

I expect Masai will one day write a book about "The Process." But we'll never see the book because he's going to spend forever evaluating whether a book is needed.

I like what the Leafs are doing. Their season ended badly and realized a coaching change was needed. They don't endlessly evaluate everything. I am more hopeful of the Leafs than the Raptors.

[OAKLEY_2]

I have to agree. MU could still surprise me this summer, but I was very disappointed that he didn't take the obvious path and fire Casey when his players quit on him in the playoffs. No matter which way you were going to go from there development wise, (build/teardown), step 1 needed (needs) to be to get the proper coach in place.


So... with that in mind, and seeing MLSE break the bank and pay more for a coach in the league than has ever been paid for a coach in the league EVER, .... shouldn't they (and MU) be at least considering breaking the bank for a Raptors coach?


As for the Process, NOW is the perfect time to flip all of your quasi stars for high draft picks and do a legitimate ground up rebuild. Tank next season for another top 10 draft pick, hopefully have two of them with the NYK/DEN pick, and then you will also have the cap space to chase 2 max contract stars in 2017. And if you can't lure any, take another year and tank for one more top ten pick. Build the team through the draft and only then, attempt to add to it with free agency.

Having the cap space to sign max players is great, provided there are max players available who are willing to sign in Toronto. Considering the Raptors have NEVER been a destination for the most sought after free agents, I think it's rather dubious to put faith in that kind of a strategy.

Leafs have struck out on "most sought after" as well. I think it says as much about who is doing the pitching. If we convert assets we better get value back but no way is ground zero tanking going to work at least in the near term and as a fan I am sick of the draft as being our offseason and post season. I would convert a chunk of this team but no way is a ground zero rebuild prudent. I would say it trends towards totally irrelevant status.

[ansoncarter]

and two years ago Masai fed a line to fans about not being content with "no man's land". Right before choosing the team-building strategy most likely, by far, to keep a team in no man's land. The mlse patented "retool"

the new leafs guy can say whatever he wants, there is no chance MLSE allows one of it's teams a long-term rebuild. Never have, never will.

[Steelo Green]

I feel as though when times are bad (or peoples inordinate expectations or not reached), individuals just need confirmation of their bias with the posters here with lack of facts or evidence.

The discussion of this forum, especially of the teenie-bop end of the world individuals has made most half decent posters just leave and ignore this place.

[omar36]

and two years ago Masai fed a line to fans about not being content with "no man's land". Right before choosing the team-building strategy most likely, by far, to keep a team in no man's land. The mlse patented "retool"

the new leafs guy can say whatever he wants, there is no chance MLSE allows one of it's teams a long-term rebuild. Never have, never will.

nope, i can def. see tanking with the leafs. it wont be long but it will last a season or two. they will play alot of young guys this season and prolly show off phil/dion.

raps on the other hand, if they continue with this roster, there really isnt hope. best thing to to rebuild both.

[Raps in 4]

When we signed MU back from Denver, we all had a great sense of hope - that the MU era would completely reverse the BC era and that MU would be the voice of "new ideas".

Why would anyone think that? Did people forget that Masai was groomed by BC?

[5playersnot1]

and two years ago Masai fed a line to fans about not being content with "no man's land". Right before choosing the team-building strategy most likely, by far, to keep a team in no man's land. The mlse patented "retool"

the new leafs guy can say whatever he wants, there is no chance MLSE allows one of it's teams a long-term rebuild. Never have, never will.

Except that's not what Masai has done at all. That's you cherry picking a single piece of info and using it to construct a novel, while completely ignoring the circumstances at the time.

Masai inherited a sinking ship. He traded away Bargs. He didn't sell low on our other assets. We then started the season with an awful record he traded away our "perceived" best player in Gay. He had a trade in place to trade away another of our top 3 in Lowry. Conceivably, more pieces were about to fall, but the Raptors went on a massive winning streak. They had what, a top 3 record from January to April in 2014? We the North was born. The city was energized. We lost by a shot to a past prime hall of fame team in game 7. We went into the summer and Masai didn't blow up a team that by all accounts took a step forward. Masai did however make some key under the radar signings in Lou and JJ (despite JJ not playing), and kept flexibility. That's what a good manager will do.

We then started 2015 on fire. This board, probably you included (but not everyone) was thrilled. Masai was a god. Again, how exactly is your GM supposed to blow the team up at that point? We were 20 games over 500 to start the season. You can hate on players, but in no sport anywhere in the world would a GM, Coach, owner, allow that to happen.

Then everything turned to garbage in January. Our easy schedule turned out to be not easy, and we lost, a lot, and ugly. Masai correctly evaluated what was happening. He had a chance at the trade deadline to sell out the future for a temporary upgrade in typical Collangelo fashion, and he didn't take it. He realize there were bigger issues and that a temporary gain would be offset by longer pain. That was the correct decision. For all the people screaming about short sighted decisions, how can you possibly argue this point. Especially since nobody on this board has any real idea of who's been offered and for what in return. It's all a guessing game except for those few people in Masai circle.

Now it's the offseason, we just got blown away in an embarrassingly ugly first round series. What to do? Seems like you want knee jerk reaction. F that. I want evaluation and trades / signings based on the bigger picture. That could be small upgrades, or a full on tank, but it all depends on what is actually available from other teams. YOU have no idea. YOU are just guessing. Is lowry really worth the kings #6? I hope Masai continues to evaluate every scenario, and makes sound long term decisions. I personally want Lowry off this team for next year, but only if it makes sense for the team. I'm not just giving assets away because I'm 12 and can't control my emotions.

Get some perspective of the bigger picture.

[Badonkadonk]

I guess it's the nature of people to latch onto words and phrases and just use them as symbols for their dissatisfaction, even if it makes no sense.

The opposite of having a process is being reactive and responding in knee-jerk fashion. There is nothing wrong with a 'process' or a 'method'. BC exemplified not having a process or any kind of vision for what he wanted out of a team - he was just collecting poorly assembled assets.

Same thing with 'organic growth', which in essence is the expectation that young players will develop and get better. Of course, the connotation on this board is entirely negative.

If you actually take a step back, all Masai has done so far is jettison the albatross pieces that he could for as much value as possible (very well done in the Gay/Bargs trades), preserved the value of his primary assets (Lowry on a decent contract) and kept EVERYTHING else flexible. The team is in a great cap situation over the next couple of years and he can take things in any direction - if the young guys prove worth holding onto, great. If not, total rebuild.

I'm a huge fan of what he's done and has NOT done so far. I think it would have been a huge mistake to add 'pieces' at the trade deadline, just as I think it would have been a huge mistake for Masai to really commit to the current core prior to the season starting via some stupid MLE contract. Everybody is easily disposable and everybody has been given an opportunity to show their promise.

I feel sorry for the people who are in a rush to either tank or to build further around this core. Hope you get comfy.