The Ringer: Raptors should consider blowing it up

[RaptorsLife]

Last year wasn't a disspointment. First conference ever in Raptors History. 1st playoffs round win in 15 years.

I understand these boston fans and writers are championship or bust but I enjoyed the hell outta last year

[vini_vidi_vici]

I think he should "consider" all options, always. I dont think this offseason is the time to blow it up considering we just traded a 1st and 2 2nds going all in, with 4 pending FAs youll likely get limited (if any) value back.

[gerrit4]

Maybe the Ringer should blow it up. They are really missing that superstar writer like Lowe or high character guys like Jalen and Jacoby to have a strong brand.

They blow it up, start over and negotiate for some solid talent.

Bill and either Grantland and the Ringer has been begging the Raps to blow it up for years! Talk about narrow focus, narrative hustlers.

Edit: valid point on Click Bait. Honest point I didn't hit the link. Which I guess makes me somewhat narrow headed myself.

I know this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but after a year the Ringer has actually started getting much better. I think Simmons show getting cancelled has helped the site get stronger.

That being said, this article is trash, and yes, they are still in need of a great NBA writer (and podcaster) like Lowe, or (in my opinion), genuinely funny guys like Jalen & Jacoby. Ha, in a way maybe they are on the treadmill of being good but not great.

The main problem with the article (and why it reads like clickbait) is that the "solutions" are pretty vague and meaningless. It's basically just an "I told you so" in case he's right type of article. There's no interesting insight on what the Raptors could do. Just things like "they could sign Lowry and trade him next summer" or "maybe they're better off blowing it up?" Basically, there's nothing written here that could come back to haunt him - we could win 3 championships in a row (or get swept in the playoffs three years in a row) and there's no real point he made here that could come back an haunt him. It's just noncommittal hot take garbage.

[lolwut]

The bigger counter-question that seems to so regularly be missed is what's the hurry to rebuild? The end goal of each and every rebuild is to get to the level we are now at or higher. So, until we're sliding backwards more what's the hurry?

This point is rarely mentioned in these doom and gloom articles. If the current team is already successful, then what guarantee is there that the "rebuilt" team will ever be as good as the current team? When you blow a team up, you'll suck for 2-3 years before things start improving. Give it another 2-3 years and you may end up as good as the original team. Now you're back to where you started. The NBA landscape will have changed by then, and there's no guarantee that the new team will have a higher ceiling than what you previously blew up. If it doesn't, do you blow it up again and start another rebuild? The cycle never ends.

[dkb33]

The guy who wrote the article seems to be all over the place to be honest. I think there should be real concerns about giving Kyle a 5 year max contract considering his age, size, playoff performance and injury concerns. Why on earth the Raptors should consider trading DeRozan who is in his prime and loves Toronto makes little sense. Also the idea that nobody would want him because he doesn't shoot 3s is short sighted. Honestly, without trying to be too much of a homer the Raptors full healthy are a top 5 team. Why the hell would you want to blow that up?

[MasaiLegs]

I think Masai is in a really tough spot and unfortunately it all falls on Lowry. His injury really F'd things up. If he hadn't had surgery and things were fine, we'd have a good chunk of the season and playoffs to evaluate our team as is. If we killed it and made it to the ECF and challenged Lebron (which I still think can happen) we'd have to bring back as many of the 'contributors' as possible. Without another ECF meeting with the Cavs, I think Masai will be hard pressed to convince MLSE to shell out luxury tax money to bring back this team. A lot will be decided how we fare in the playoffs. First round exit? We'd definitely have to entertain blowing it up. If we show potential with this group, stay the course. The article was a tad bit premature to be honest.

[bon]

Why is avoiding the tax line and "blowing it up" considered the same thing so often?

[Reg00]

Maybe the Ringer should blow it up. They are really missing that superstar writer like Lowe or high character guys like Jalen and Jacoby to have a strong brand.

They blow it up, start over and negotiate for some solid talent.

Bill and either Grantland and the Ringer has been begging the Raps to blow it up for years! Talk about narrow focus, narrative hustlers.

Edit: valid point on Click Bait. Honest point I didn't hit the link. Which I guess makes me somewhat narrow headed myself.

I know this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but after a year the Ringer has actually started getting much better. I think Simmons show getting cancelled has helped the site get stronger.

That being said, this article is trash, and yes, they are still in need of a great NBA writer (and podcaster) like Lowe, or (in my opinion), genuinely funny guys like Jalen & Jacoby. Ha, in a way maybe they are on the treadmill of being good but not great.

The main problem with the article (and why it reads like clickbait) is that the "solutions" are pretty vague and meaningless. It's basically just an "I told you so" in case he's right type of article. There's no interesting insight on what the Raptors could do. Just things like "they could sign Lowry and trade him next summer" or "maybe they're better off blowing it up?" Basically, there's nothing written here that could come back to haunt him - we could win 3 championships in a row (or get swept in the playoffs three years in a row) and there's no real point he made here that could come back an haunt him. It's just noncommittal hot take garbage.

That's been Bill's real downfall for me. I love his hot takes and some of his questions. But there are a lot of other basketball head options out there that actually get into the gritty "what can they do questions" rather than throw away commentary. I'm thinking Dunc'd On Podcast here more than any.

Maybe even RealGM has taken a lot of that interest away from me. Reading some of the hot takes in here by random "nobodies" of often more entertaining than Bill's (I know he didn't write this article, just a well known fill in for bland ball journo) insight.

Give me depth (Lowe), something to chew on (Ziller), or something funny (Fast Break Breakfast) and I'll buy it.

[OakleyDokely]

Why is avoiding the tax line and "blowing it up" considered the same thing so often?

True.

The Raps can avoid the tax and still re-sign Lowry/Ibaka/Tucker/Patterson. But Masai would have to move out players like Val, Carroll, Joseph for cap relief to make it work.

[pbj]

Click bait. Nothing gets a sports site traffic like ticking off Toronto fans.

"Click bait" is all headline and no substance. This article has substance. It starts with the premise that Masai is a gangsta who could do anything. It quotes him admitting at the Sloan Conference that the Raptors' window could be "3 months or 3 years".

The writer is suggesting that we may see a Nene-esque delayed sign and trade with Lowry. Maybe Lakers would take DeMar. I'm sure the Knicks would. Anyway, it's more worth reading than that Sportsnet piece (of trash - the bad kind!).

Yeah I realize that the prevailing definition of click-bait corresponds more to headlines like 'You won't believe what EXPERTS think Masai Ujiri should do this summer!" or "Top 10 roster moves the Raptors need to make NOW!" but I've re-purposing it for my need, which is to make snarky and succinct posts.

Anyway, I'm generally trying to close my eyes to the reality that Lowry just turned 31 and hasn't had a proper pay-day his entire career. There's merit to the fact that we might be screwing ourselves royally by giving him a near max 5 year deal. I just don't want to think about it.

[Tortiglioni]

Maybe the Ringer should blow it up. They are really missing that superstar writer like Lowe or high character guys like Jalen and Jacoby to have a strong brand.

They blow it up, start over and negotiate for some solid talent.

Bill and either Grantland and the Ringer has been begging the Raps to blow it up for years! Talk about narrow focus, narrative hustlers.

Edit: valid point on Click Bait. Honest point I didn't hit the link. Which I guess makes me somewhat narrow headed myself.

I know this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but after a year the Ringer has actually started getting much better. I think Simmons show getting cancelled has helped the site get stronger.

That being said, this article is trash, and yes, they are still in need of a great NBA writer (and podcaster) like Lowe, or (in my opinion), genuinely funny guys like Jalen & Jacoby. Ha, in a way maybe they are on the treadmill of being good but not great.

The main problem with the article (and why it reads like clickbait) is that the "solutions" are pretty vague and meaningless. It's basically just an "I told you so" in case he's right type of article. There's no interesting insight on what the Raptors could do. Just things like "they could sign Lowry and trade him next summer" or "maybe they're better off blowing it up?" Basically, there's nothing written here that could come back to haunt him - we could win 3 championships in a row (or get swept in the playoffs three years in a row) and there's no real point he made here that could come back an haunt him. It's just noncommittal hot take garbage.

Yet still better than anything any Toronto media would even dream of writing.

[RaptorsLife]

Now that I actually read it. Way better than garbage sportsnet article about Lowry. But it's premature. Like others said. Playoffs will decide alot.

[Lateral Quicks]

I've never been that partial to guard dominated offences, particularly one where one of your guards can't shoot from distance. I prefer offences that are more versatile, balanced, and can score inside and outside depending on what the defence gives you. The Raptors have looked great without Lowry because we now have a player in Ibaka that can play inside (and outside, for that matter). Having another reliable offensive option out there is huge. As well as we've been playing without Lowry, I think Lowry + Ibaka would be an even better pairing than DD + Ibaka.

Something does need to be done about our PG situation this offseason though. We have too many, and arguably all of them - yes, even Fred VV - deserve rotation minutes. One point to consider is that CoJo has only one more guaranteed year on his bargain contract, and he'll be looking for a serious raise. So you'll either be paying Lowry near max or CoJo $15M or so per. Personally I'd rather pay Lowry and have Delon or Fred back him up than have CoJo start and Delon back him up. Lowry remains the best player on the team - and arguably in the division - and you don't part ways with those kinds of guys if you have designs on a championship.

I expect Lowry and Ibaka to be back. Tucker and Patterson will be back if they accept role playing salaries. CoJo and Carroll will be moved for salary relief if necessary. JV may also be moved, but I doubt it as he has more value in certain matchups and Poeltl isn't ready to start.

Next year's Raptors look like this to me:

Lowry/Wright/VanVleet
DD/Powell
Tucker/Powell/pick
Ibaka/Patterson/Siakam
JV/Poeltl

[vaff87]

So we have the best team we've ever had, and now we should blow it up? Makes no sense.

[ropjhk]

Essentially the article says that Toronto won't win a championship with this core and their best chance to win a championship is to sell high right now and rebuild.

Of course the article ignores the fact that the Raptors are a historically bad team and that any level of success is something to be celebrated. I think most of us have come around to enjoying the run this core is having and would like to see it through to the end regardless of whether we end of with a championship or not.

[Patman]

The bigger counter-question that seems to so regularly be missed is what's the hurry to rebuild? The end goal of each and every rebuild is to get to the level we are now at or higher. So, until we're sliding backwards more what's the hurry?

This point is rarely mentioned in these doom and gloom articles. If the current team is already successful, then what guarantee is there that the "rebuilt" team will ever be as good as the current team? When you blow a team up, you'll suck for 2-3 years before things start improving. Give it another 2-3 years and you may end up as good as the original team. Now you're back to where you started. The NBA landscape will have changed by then, and there's no guarantee that the new team will have a higher ceiling than what you previously blew up. If it doesn't, do you blow it up again and start another rebuild? The cycle never ends.

Yes, getting to the conference Finals is very hard. The Spurs is most people's favourite model franchise, and even they have been eliminated in the FIRST ROUND in 3 of the past 8 playoffs. If the Spurs played here, a ton of fans would have demanded at least one rebuild during that time.

[MavCarter]

Yes blow it up and tank and hope we're as good as we are right now in 5 years again. Do people even remember the dark days here? Or has winning made them completely forget?

[Raptorfan2012]

Masai already decided he is going to build on the core of Lowry and Demar last year when he re-signed Demar. Now he has went out to get guys like Ibaka and Tucker, who are in their prime (same as Lowry and Demar). Unless we completely fall out in the first round (i.e. swept by Atlanta) I'd say he will still work to bring back Lowry, Ibaka, and Tucker (not sure about Patterson). The other alternative is to find someone to take on Demar's big contract (not impossible, but very unlikely IMO) and then rebuild with a 20ish something pick for 2017 and onwards? I've said this many times already, but Masai did his summer off-season shopping early again during the trade deadline. Now he just has to bring back the team.

[RaptorsLife]

Winning is fun tbh

[Double Helix]

The bigger counter-question that seems to so regularly be missed is what's the hurry to rebuild? The end goal of each and every rebuild is to get to the level we are now at or higher. So, until we're sliding backwards more what's the hurry?

This point is rarely mentioned in these doom and gloom articles. If the current team is already successful, then what guarantee is there that the "rebuilt" team will ever be as good as the current team? When you blow a team up, you'll suck for 2-3 years before things start improving. Give it another 2-3 years and you may end up as good as the original team. Now you're back to where you started. The NBA landscape will have changed by then, and there's no guarantee that the new team will have a higher ceiling than what you previously blew up. If it doesn't, do you blow it up again and start another rebuild? The cycle never ends.

Lebron James is turning 33 years old later this year and he still leads the top team, and current champs. At this age span anything is possible for Lowry but also the Chosen One himself. What if he seriously has a really bad injury of any kind next year? What team would be better positioned than (asuming Ibaka and Lowry are re-signed) to capitalize on that then us? Boston if they move their draft pick for a superstar but it's really us and them and that's it. These things happen in sports and the closer you are in veteran age to pounce on the timing the better the peak you get. Consider when Michael Jordan left to play baseball. Can you imagine if the Houston Rockets had felt that it was time to blow things up since the Bulls had won 3 in a row and could probably win more? Maybe the Utah Jazz are 2-time champions right now instead. What if Curry's originally shaky ankles catch up to him later or the team struggles to keep all of its stars together?

When you're close, and you have quality vets, and you aren't clearly backsliding in quality yet I just don't see the rush to blow it up. It's very hard to move past a Conference Finals appearance. It requires a lot of things coming together at once, including timing and health.

I'm fine re-signing these guys and going at this for a few other seasons even if means we have Lowry being paid a ton on a team that's starting to rebuild during the last year or two of his deal. Sign them with the next 2 seasons in mind, hoping for some declines from others more reliant on athleticism than Lowry, and hope you also get a good 3rd year. Plan to rebuild around the end of the contract even with him around if you can't move him due to salary.