Lithuania coaches "fascinated" by JV's transformation

[sule]

I'll believe it when I see it myself. I'm not taking the word of Lithuanian national team coaches. People out of that same country was blaming lowry for his downful. I'll believe it when I see him play here.

Lowry and Casey both know they're not passing to Valanciunas and putting him in positions to succeed when he's playing well.

The Raptors’ loss in Minnesota on Wednesday was one example. Lowry scored 20 points in that game but, three days later, he was still lamenting a seven-minute period where it should have been centre Jonas Valanciunas, not himself or fellow guard DeMar DeRozan, putting up shots.

“I should have gotten (Valanciunas) the ball three, four times where me and DeMar were missing shots,” Lowry said. “After I watched the game I felt like I should have gotten (him) the ball and I just didn’t.”

Raptors coach Dwane Casey took some of the blame for the missed connections, admitting he failed to call plays that would have allowed Valanciunas to take advantage of posting up against Minnesota centre Karl-Anthony Towns.

“We have to understand what’s a good shot for this point in the game, what’s a bad shot at that point in the game,” Casey said. “That’s what shot us in the foot in the Minnesota game — shots we normally make in the flow of the game but, at that point in the game, they were bad shots.”

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2017/02/11/raptors-need-to-get-ball-to-hot-hand-jonas-valanciunas.html

And this was from February of this year. Months before The Lithuanian guy criticized Lowry for not passing Valanciunas the ball.

It's been an issue for this team that they admit to, but aren't doing anything about.

[kalel123]

I don't know if it's the same person but Lithuanian NT coaches have been generally right and more honest about assessment on Valanciunas in the past than anyone else including Casey. So I'll give them some benefit of the doubt here. Certainly foolish to just dismiss their opinions when, again, they've been more correct on Valanciunas than anyone else previously.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I'll believe it when I see it myself. I'm not taking the word of Lithuanian national team coaches. People out of that same country was blaming lowry for his downful. I'll believe it when I see him play here.

Lowry and Casey both know they're not passing to Valanciunas and putting him in positions to succeed when he's playing well.

The Raptors’ loss in Minnesota on Wednesday was one example. Lowry scored 20 points in that game but, three days later, he was still lamenting a seven-minute period where it should have been centre Jonas Valanciunas, not himself or fellow guard DeMar DeRozan, putting up shots.

“I should have gotten (Valanciunas) the ball three, four times where me and DeMar were missing shots,” Lowry said. “After I watched the game I felt like I should have gotten (him) the ball and I just didn’t.”

Raptors coach Dwane Casey took some of the blame for the missed connections, admitting he failed to call plays that would have allowed Valanciunas to take advantage of posting up against Minnesota centre Karl-Anthony Towns.

“We have to understand what’s a good shot for this point in the game, what’s a bad shot at that point in the game,” Casey said. “That’s what shot us in the foot in the Minnesota game — shots we normally make in the flow of the game but, at that point in the game, they were bad shots.”

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2017/02/11/raptors-need-to-get-ball-to-hot-hand-jonas-valanciunas.html

And this was from February of this year. Months before The Lithuanian guy criticized Lowry for not passing Valanciunas the ball.

It's been an issue for this team that they admit to, but aren't doing anything about.

I think its dumb that the only time they think to get val the ball are certain segmented times at the start of games/halves, and when they're cold. There are other good opportunities to pass inside that frankly I don't think lowry/derozan exploit as well as other players might. That said I don't think Val's amazing or anything and has obvious defensive flaws...also blame needs to go to the coaching staff.

[DonMega]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

[Lukeem]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

i believe its closer to 10% of the board, that just happen to be the "loudest" most annoying with stuff like " we should trade jv for nothing" or "we would be better never giving him the ball or mins because he gets worse every year"

[RaptorsNorth]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

dude the same thing was said before the past 2 seasons . I also heard the same thing about ross and yet we're still here saying the same thing. Like I've said I'll believe when I see it. Every season is a break out season incoming. After the performance in the Indiana series it was break out season incoming. What happened last season ? 2 steps backwards. I remember all the break out season incoming brags got on here lol ahhh the good old days. Why stop there huh ? Break out season incoming for bruno too.

[Buff]

So, you're taking a fan's judgment over that of the coaches. But when the coach last year was critical of JV, you took that as gospel. Ah, I see how it works.

This, the haters have been using the LTU coaches opinions as fact when such opinions are negative. Now they can not ignore the same opinion from another coach in the same position.I personally do not care for either, but the hypocrisy is strong here.

[DreamTeam09]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

dude the same thing was said before the past 2 seasons . I also heard the same thing about ross and yet we're still here saying the same thing. Like I've said I'll believe when I see it. Every season is a break out season incoming. After the performance in the Indiana series it was break out season incoming. What happened last season ? 2 steps backwards. I remember all the break out season incoming brags got on here lol ahhh the good old days. Why stop there huh ? Break out season incoming for bruno too.

Man go away, and after you edited your post, you can tell you're like some salty troll. Who are you to poopoo on anyone's hopes or beliefs. If someone wants to believe with good merit, that such n such a player may breakout, then hopefully that player does. No1 is saying anything is 100%. Even if you are taking the wait n see approach, then shut up n wait n see. Or add something of value to the conversation.

We've seen many raptors over the years, breakout, lets hope JV, Bruno, Delon, Pascal, Jakob all have brakeout years. Norm2. What I don't understand, are ppl who follow a team who they don't really like, or don't wish the best for.

[RaptorsNorth]

So, you're taking a fan's judgment over that of the coaches. But when the coach last year was critical of JV, you took that as gospel. Ah, I see how it works.

This, the haters have been using the LTU coaches opinions as fact when such opinions are negative. Now they can not ignore the same opinion from another coach in the same position.I personally do not care for either, but the hypocrisy is strong here.

key word is 'another coach' It's not the same coach who's honesty was proven right. Like I've said I'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT MYSELF! The old coach said whatever he said but he was proven right after we saw val take steps backwards. Why would I believe the guy when I haven't seen val play. People act as if the their old coach hated on val, then he came here playing top basketball. His old coach said whatever he said and he was proven right. I never said the new coach is wrong. I said I'LL BELIEVE WHEN I SEE IT MYSELF!

[RaptorsNorth]

Better question. Have any of you seen this improved val play ? Yet someone that questions his improvement is a haters lol so what does that make someone that ready to smoke his pubic hairs without seeing him play ? I haven't seen him play and you haven't seen him play so relax. Not everyone with a question is a hater. If the same thing was said about bruno being much improved or demar's defence being much improved I'd say the same thing. After all those comments are coming from a coach in his country. I'll see him Play and make my own judgement. So far the only player that looks improved to me is pascal because I've seen him. He clearly worked on his shot and it shows. Jak also looks more decisive with his moves. Lowry game looks the same, I haven't seen much from Demar, JV, norm, delon, bebe or bruno to speak on them.

[Concernedcad]

If I was to write a paper on nationalism deluding ones mind I would probably cite how Lithunian fans talk about JV. Trade or no trade Jakob will take his starting spot.

[JShuttlesworth]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

I think all Raptor fans would be happy for JV to breakout, we want all of our players to improve. You have to understand why posters have their doubts of that happening. Over the past years JV has made small improvements in certain areas, which is to be expected given that he's a young player, but other areas he seems to have plateaued, other areas (like athleticism) he's regressed.

Has he reached his full potential? No probably not - He's 24. Experience alone will make him better over the next few years. But is he going to morph into a Marc Gasol type player? A fringe all-star? Probably also no. Would we be happy if he did? Absolutely.

[dagger]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

I think all Raptor fans would be happy for JV to breakout, we want all of our players to improve.

I've come to believe that certain posters get so locked into critical narratives about certain players that it would kill them to admit they are happy to see improvement.

[JShuttlesworth]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

I think all Raptor fans would be happy for JV to breakout, we want all of our players to improve.

I've come to believe that certain posters get so locked into critical narratives about certain players that it would kill them to admit they are happy to see improvement.

That's true. Sometimes people take a hard stance, and then they are unwilling to change that stance. It's the wrong way to look at things. Your opinion can change, there is nothing wrong with that. It's okay to be wrong - Some people need to learn how to show some humility.

You (not you specifically, posters in general) can also disagree / debate without arguing and taking things personal. That's what the forum is for, to discuss ball and get different perspectives.

[rapcity10]

Maybe on another team you can see him "breakout" and have a very good season. But the truth is on this team as constructed he will never breakout, and that's why the past 3 years he hasn't seen any significant improvements to his game, and looks worse in other areas. He has to be the focal point of the team, and needs to have the perfect players surrounding him. The truth is no team in the league is going to cater to JV at this point in his career to be a focal point of a team he just isn't good enough like that. He just has things going against him at the moment in the new NBA , from the way JV is built, genes, everything, he isn't that suited for the way the NBA game is played today. A guy like Marc Gasol gets away with that cause of how intelligent he is on the basketball court, he's one of the highest iq guys in the game, JV isn't. At the moment he's just a way less skilled and less polished offensive player Enes Kanter.

[Johnny Bball]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

I think all Raptor fans would be happy for JV to breakout, we want all of our players to improve. You have to understand why posters have their doubts of that happening. Over the past years JV has made small improvements in certain areas, which is to be expected given that he's a young player, but other areas he seems to have plateaued, other areas (like athleticism) he's regressed.

Has he reached his full potential? No probably not - He's 24. Experience alone will make him better over the next few years. But is he going to morph into a Marc Gasol type player? A fringe all-star? Probably also no. Would we be happy if he did? Absolutely.

Yep. I more lean toward the side that the trade talk has to be a pretty big motivator, and he looks like he's in better shape and working on his game more seriously. That has to pay off, just the level of improvement is unknown. If it doesn't happen this season, its hard to see it ever happening in a big way. Pretty pivotal year for JV. If he can stay on the floor and Ibaka can play full time at the 4, we are in great shape.

There are people saying that a few guys aren't giving any credit to JV or this coaches positive comments. I see only two. On the other side, there are are more than a few people here that refused to admit JV had to work on his game and conditioning when that was said for the last 3 seasons and said last year by the coach. I don't dislike JV. Most of us don't. But I'm pretty sure there are more than a few of us though that dislike the number of excuses generated for JV for most everything not being his own responsibility. The majority of the difference in opinion in these conversations mostly seem to revovle around who's fault it is or why things play out the way they do.

[JShuttlesworth]

I think all Raptor fans would be happy for JV to breakout, we want all of our players to improve. You have to understand why posters have their doubts of that happening. Over the past years JV has made small improvements in certain areas, which is to be expected given that he's a young player, but other areas he seems to have plateaued, other areas (like athleticism) he's regressed.

Has he reached his full potential? No probably not - He's 24. Experience alone will make him better over the next few years. But is he going to morph into a Marc Gasol type player? A fringe all-star? Probably also no. Would we be happy if he did? Absolutely.

Yep. I more lean toward the side that the trade talk has to be a pretty big motivator, and he looks like he's in better shape and working on his game more seriously. That has to pay off, just the level of improvement is unknown. If it doesn't happen this season, its hard to see it ever happening in a big way. Pretty pivotal year for JV. If he can stay on the floor and Ibaka can play full time at the 4, we are in great shape.

There are people saying that a few guys aren't giving any credit to JV or this coaches positive comments. I see only two. On the other side, there are are more than a few people here that refused to admit JV had to work on his game and conditioning when that was said for the last 3 seasons and said last year by the coach. I don't dislike JV. Most of us don't. But I'm pretty sure there are more than a few of us though that dislike the number of excuses generated for JV for most everything not being his own responsibility. The majority of the difference in opinion in these conversations mostly seem to revovle around who's fault it is or why things play out the way they do.

This is the key. The biggest JV fanatics think the world is against him, nothing is his fault. Whether it's Casey, the system, DeMar / Kyle, our training staff, etc. The list goes on and on. They seem to put zero accountability on JV, it's Jonas vs. The World. I don't think those are fair comments at all.

This year (at least from what I saw in this first game) JV seems to be in better shape. He did look more fluid running the floor to me. I'm sure those same people who played the blame game are going to credit that to JV and not our trainers / coaching staff for Jonas being in better shape this year, so it's a double standard.

[RaptorsNorth]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

I think all Raptor fans would be happy for JV to breakout, we want all of our players to improve. You have to understand why posters have their doubts of that happening. Over the past years JV has made small improvements in certain areas, which is to be expected given that he's a young player, but other areas he seems to have plateaued, other areas (like athleticism) he's regressed.

Has he reached his full potential? No probably not - He's 24. Experience alone will make him better over the next few years. But is he going to morph into a Marc Gasol type player? A fringe all-star? Probably also no. Would we be happy if he did? Absolutely.

you say Marc gasol ? Last season some people on here were saying he's going the be the next Tim Duncan so I'm sure some of his supporters still believe he'll be better than gasol. Some of JV's supporters are simply more delusional than Lavar Ball. Some of them have realistic expectation but the ones from his country truly believe if he leaves toronto he will become the best player in the league. The delusions are strong there and they will blame every and anybody if he does't meet their expectation. When he gets traded they're going to bash this organization so bad in his country. You might laugh but some of them think he's better than lebron and casey is the only person keeping him from reaching that level.

[7 Footer]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

Hard to break out when your glued to the bench.

[Lukeem]

Breakout year incoming. Can't wait till 99% of this board eats their words.

I think all Raptor fans would be happy for JV to breakout, we want all of our players to improve. You have to understand why posters have their doubts of that happening. Over the past years JV has made small improvements in certain areas, which is to be expected given that he's a young player, but other areas he seems to have plateaued, other areas (like athleticism) he's regressed.

Has he reached his full potential? No probably not - He's 24. Experience alone will make him better over the next few years. But is he going to morph into a Marc Gasol type player? A fringe all-star? Probably also no. Would we be happy if he did? Absolutely.

you say Marc gasol ? Last season some people on here were saying he's going the be the next Tim Duncan so I'm sure some of his supporters still believe he'll be better than gasol. Some of JV's supporters are simply more delusional than Lavar Ball. Some of them have realistic expectation but the ones from his country truly believe if he leaves toronto he will become the best player in the league. The delusions are strong there and they will blame every and anybody if he does't meet their expectation. When he gets traded they're going to bash this organization so bad in his country. You might laugh but some of them think he's better than lebron and casey is the only person keeping him from reaching that level.

why do you do this stupid argument with yourself

show us one poster that thinks he is going to be better than lebron or the best player in the league.... show us one poster that believes that or else you whole post and this whole narrative you take isnt worth your real gm registration fee