Realistic Expectations for Jakob Poeltl, Pascal Siakam, and Delon Wright heading into 17-18

[edgehead411]

For the past few seasons now, the Raptors have been able to hang their hats on the bench depth. This was birthed with the Rudy Gay to Sacramento for John Salmons, Patrick Patterson, and Grevis Vasquez. Salmons eventually became Lou Williams, and Vasquez became Norman Powell, while Patterson continued to develop.

Losing Biyombo last season really hurt our bench's ability to impact games. However, Cory Joseph, Powell, Patterson, and eventually P.J Tucker picked up the slack and really provided our starters with some production when they were off the court. Even last year, Poeltl didn't see much in terms of consistent minutes; same could be said for Wright, Siakam and even Bruno Caboclo.

Going into 2017-2018, we have pushed our chips to the middle of the table with DeRozan, Lowry, and Ibaka. No changes have been made in terms of coaching strategies as Casey is returning for another season at a minimum but we are now putting a lot of pressure on players who frankly haven't done much outside of Summer League/D-League competition.


Norman Powell is a fantastic talent and I believe is a very capable two-way player but it's unrealistic to expect this bench to be relied upon. Frankly, I think we went from being one of the best benches that cultivated an identity through chemistry to one of the worst; especially amongst playoff teams


Edit: I'm not willing to debate O.G's impact on the team as I don't expect him to play by at least the All-Star break

[Lukeem]

this is off top of my head and changes might happen but generally speaking

boston

baynes
ojeleye/ yasubele
tatum
brown
smart


cavs

frye
green
jefferson
shumpert
rose



wiz

mahinimi
smith
oubre
?


bucks

hawes/ monroe/ maker/ henson (1 will start)
telotovic
vaughn
snell
deladova


hornets

zeller
kaminsky
lamb
monk


raptors

pöltl
siakim
OG bruno
powell
wright


out of all of those players powell might be the best player next year

i like the potential of wright OG siakim and pöltl and they wont be asked to do too much this year


people have a tendancy to to look at a bench unit as one squad, when in reality either lowry or derozan will be on the court with these guys the most

[Concernedcad]

Jak to take all closing 4th quarter minutes away from JV

[TackyRapsFan]

I honestly can't see Wright becoming much. If he becomes Shaun Livingston, that's a hell of a win.

I can't see our bum coach giving the kids a long enough leash. Because he has no foresight. Because he ain't a head coach.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Duffman100]

I honestly can't see Wright becoming much. If he becomes Shaun Livingston, that's a hell of a win.

I can't see our bum coach giving the kids a long enough leash. Because he has no foresight. Because he ain't a head coach.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

He doesn't really have much of a choice. They're going to get minutes.

[Syd-TK3]

Lowry is gonna be playing with the bench majority of the time.
Delon with Lowry is arguably a better pairing than Lowry/Joseph. Defensive versatility is better and Delon as a playmaker will open more options.

Bench is gonna thrive off of teamwork, ball movement, defense, and fast pace.
I'm not expecting any huge impact from one single guy
Also IMO you have CJ play with the bench and start Powell

[RonaldArtest]

I honestly can't see Wright becoming much. If he becomes Shaun Livingston, that's a hell of a win.

I can't see our bum coach giving the kids a long enough leash. Because he has no foresight. Because he ain't a head coach.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Bro, who exactly is casey going to play over these guys?

[RaptorsJunkie]

All NBA First Team for each of them if we're lucky but they'll probably only make it to the ALL NBA 2nd or 3rd Team.

[dukes_wild]

Not sure about just this year, but this is how I see all of them ending up as players in the future


Delon Wright: Good back-up PG who can defend, create for others and score a bit.

Pascal Siakam: Solid 3rd big, but the key to his value is 3pt shooting. We saw how much of an offensive liability he was last year because teams just left him open

Jakob Poeltl: Good replacement-level starting Center. Steven Adams is a great comparison. A center who will do a lot of good things, but won't necessarily single handedly win you many games. A guy that can impact the game through defense, rebounding, and 2nd chance points without needing offensive touches.

[Duffman100]

Not sure about just this year, but this is how I see all of them ending up as players in the future


Delon Wright: Good back-up PG who can defend, create for others and score a bit.

Pascal Siakam: Solid 3rd big, but the key to his value is 3pt shooting. We saw how much of an offensive liability he was last year because teams just left him open

Jakob Poeltl: Good replacement-level starting Center. Steven Adams is a great comparison. A center who will do a lot of good things, but won't necessarily single handedly win you many games. A guy that can impact the game through defense, rebounding, and 2nd chance points without needing offensive touches.

I'd like to see Poeltl given the ball in the high post a bit to take advantage of his passing ability.

[RonaldArtest]

Not sure about just this year, but this is how I see all of them ending up as players in the future


Delon Wright: Good back-up PG who can defend, create for others and score a bit.

Pascal Siakam: Solid 3rd big, but the key to his value is 3pt shooting. We saw how much of an offensive liability he was last year because teams just left him open

Jakob Poeltl: Good replacement-level starting Center. Steven Adams is a great comparison. A center who will do a lot of good things, but won't necessarily single handedly win you many games. A guy that can impact the game through defense, rebounding, and 2nd chance points without needing offensive touches.

I'd like to see Poeltl given the ball in the high post a bit to take advantage of his passing ability.

If Bebe was more dialed in I would say the same for him as well. He's shown a really nice touch when it comes to passing for a big, but like I said his focus concerns me. I'm sure if he were to be used as more of a facilitator and he was pressured as such, there would be more than a few cough ups and bone-headed plays. Jak though I have more confidence in, as far as keeping his cool and head in the game.

Also as a side note, big to big passing throughout the key is a joy to watch.

[VanWest82]

I believe Wright and Powell will step up and provide consistent production. They have a nice chemistry together and have earned their PT the right way.

Poeltl showed last year that he's capable with whatever back up center minutes are available.

But like last year (pre Tucker trade) we have no forwards. Patterson was our only capable forward which is one of many reasons for his gaudy on/off splits. If one of Siakam, OG, or Bruno doesn't step up with a reliable three point shot and two way game our bench could be in some trouble.

[hsb]

Not sure about just this year, but this is how I see all of them ending up as players in the future


Delon Wright: Good back-up PG who can defend, create for others and score a bit.

Pascal Siakam: Solid 3rd big, but the key to his value is 3pt shooting. We saw how much of an offensive liability he was last year because teams just left him open

Jakob Poeltl: Good replacement-level starting Center. Steven Adams is a great comparison. A center who will do a lot of good things, but won't necessarily single handedly win you many games. A guy that can impact the game through defense, rebounding, and 2nd chance points without needing offensive touches.

I'd like to see Poeltl given the ball in the high post a bit to take advantage of his passing ability.

If Bebe was more dialed in I would say the same for him as well. He's shown a really nice touch when it comes to passing for a big, but like I said his focus concerns me. I'm sure if he were to be used as more of a facilitator and he was pressured as such, there would be more than a few cough ups and bone-headed plays. Jak though I have more confidence in, as far as keeping his cool and head in the game.

Also as a side note, big to big passing throughout the key is a joy to watch.

The irony here is that the both of you are talking about two players who had the lowest and second lowest amount of touches per 36 in the entire NBA. I'm just saying there needs to be a culture reset for the team to integrate a center into the offense.

Heck, PPatt showed all the potential to make plays in the high post - also to your last point the FG% from front court players receiving a pass from PPatt was great as well, higher than their average for pretty much everyone, every year - after his full season on the team and then they spent his remaining years completely avoiding his development from there. I don't see how things will change with the new batch of players if they run the same offense. They didn't care for it last year.

[TackyRapsFan]

I honestly can't see Wright becoming much. If he becomes Shaun Livingston, that's a hell of a win.

I can't see our bum coach giving the kids a long enough leash. Because he has no foresight. Because he ain't a head coach.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

He doesn't really have much of a choice. They're going to get minutes.

We're talking about the same Casey who had Lowry playing the leagues most minutes. This bum will burn the veterans into the ground. Kids don't need just spot minutes, they need a lot of time pumped into them.

We also don't want the kids picking up scraps. They can't just be in the game, they need to touch the ball. Be part of play sets. Familiarize themselves with game-time pressure. Work through the kinks.

Will Casey allow that? Will our so-called "leaders" (the back court) encourage these youth? They'll need confidence.

We'll see. It's not just minutes, brother. We can't have Pascal on the court just watching DeRozan pound the ball through to the rink.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Double Helix]

Raptors fans and journalists have had a tendency of panicking about changes in our bench every summer without giving credit to the architect of these benches and his ability to build new ones or assess when younger players are ready for more.

Losing Amir Johnson when Patterson surpassed him.

Losing Grevis Vasquez.

Losing the 6th man of the year.

Losing Tyler Hansbrough.

Losing Luis Scola.

Losing Bizmak Biyombo.

Losing Terrence Ross.

Losing Cory Joseph.

Losing Patrick Patterson.

Each of those departures has been met with doom and gloom only for new players acquired or developing to step up into new roles to help fill the voids. The latest departures will be no different because Masai has been anticipating this moment and used several late firsts and seconds to acquire quality bench depth prospects who are older and closer to contributing than higher risk vs reward prospects would have been by now.

He's also added a guy in CJ Miles who is probably going to end up better than Carroll was for us and a better shooter than Tucker was for us off of our bench.

As others have said, it's likely that Lowry or Derozan are staggered a little to play with the bench units more so Delon and Siakam and Poeltl will probably each have 2 of Lowry, Derozan or CJ Miles beside them for long stretches to add more experience and offensive impact to those bench groupings.

The defensive upside of the younger bench guys expected to step up remains high and that also includes Nogueira.

Delon Wright could be Shawn Livingston defensively with MCW's first step. I won't be surprised if his impact in he league ends up being pretty close to Marcus Smart's. Despite the fact Smart was picked way earlier.

Siakam could be a switchy Capella type of rim running PF with better range and more offensive polish in a specialized role.

Poeltl projects to be at a minimum a Cody Zeller-level player to me and possibly Steven Adams level or higher if all goes right for him.

Lucas Nogueira is a RPM dynamo who could see his role expand if the right JV deal comes along to move both he and Poeltl into more minutes. If people are going to cite PP's departure via RPM they should probably highlight the possible continued growth of Nogueira who finished top 35 overall. It's also possible Masai finds a GM in love with him and acquires some more bench help for the team in a Nogueira trade.

OG Anunoby was drafted for defence first and offence into the future. I think he'll be with the team well before the all star break and helping to guard some of the big 3s of the league.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[TerryTate]

Delon Wright could be Shawn Livingston defensively with MCW's first step. I won't be surprised if his impact in he league ends up being pretty close to Marcus Smart's. Despite the fact Smart was picked way earlier.

Think his impact could have been better than Smart, if he got more minutes and next year he will definitely he's more impactful that Marcus Smart.

[Johnny Bball]

Short answer, they are all better than last year.

Poeltl still won't see a ton of time with Ibaka and then JV in front of him, but he likely is the biggest talent. But will have to wait another year. No huge loss since young centres are magnets for bad calls for fouls and get no respect.

Wright will play less than CJ did, but will be a decent backup - shoot as well, pass well, defend better, turn the ball over too much. We will be fine there.

Powell will get more minutes and be better all around but no star, not close to 6th man or anything stellar. Good 4th option when the team can play small.

Siakam is the wild card. We have no other real PF on this team to close games with and if he can't become good, then this team will have to make a move by the deadline. I don't see PS hitting 35% of his shots from 3 (probabaly the easiest jump) or defending the perimeter at a high enough level that we don't give up too much. This teams biggest weakness will be PNR defense with JV out there and I don't know that PS can defend the PNR and bigs one on one as well as Patterson did. I think he will improve, just not fast enough, and it will be an eventual problem. Our defense could be much worse if teams spam PNR against JV, PS and even Ibaka.

[whysoserious]

Bench last year was Corey, Patterson, Ross, Norm, Poeltl and Siakam.

Bench this year is Delon, Norm/Miles, Siakam, Poeltl.

Delon in for Corey is a wash IMO but Corey had proven himself in that role and Delon remains a bit of an unknown.

Norm is a year better and Miles is way better than Ross. Those two should fill the alternate starting spot and bench spot and play with the bench a lot.

Poeltl and Siakam a year older and have both looked solid.

Losing Patterson and Tucker (who came late) is gonna hurt but then we also have Ibaka starting for a full year.

It's not so much that the bench is so much worse, it's that we have unknown production and contribution. The thing is though, it was time to let some of these young guys play. They may fail to be consistent, our bench may not be great this year and our starters may have to carry us but in the long run we need to find out what these kids can do and either they develop or we find out they can't contribute and we move on.

[CoachJReturns]

Poeltl will make an incremental improvement across the board. His minutes will go up, but no more than 10-15 a game at most. JV and Serge play the majority of center minutes this year.
Siakam will hit some 3s, which will be his biggest improvement in skill, while getting a ton of minutes.
Delon will finally get minutes and be the solid backup point guard he was always going to be. He may be one of the 10 best defensive point guards in the league by some metrics.

[rapcity10]

Bench last year was Corey, Patterson, Ross, Norm, Poeltl and Siakam.

Bench this year is Delon, Norm/Miles, Siakam, Poeltl.

Delon in for Corey is a wash IMO but Corey had proven himself in that role and Delon remains a bit of an unknown.

Norm is a year better and Miles is way better than Ross. Those two should fill the alternate starting spot and bench spot and play with the bench a lot.

Poeltl and Siakam a year older and have both looked solid.

Losing Patterson and Tucker (who came late) is gonna hurt but then we also have Ibaka starting for a full year.

It's not so much that the bench is so much worse, it's that we have unknown production and contribution. The thing is though, it was time to let some of these young guys play. They may fail to be consistent, our bench may not be great this year and our starters may have to carry us but in the long run we need to find out what these kids can do and either they develop or we find out they can't contribute and we move on.

How in the world is miles way better than Ross?? Are people actually expecting this guy to change the outcome of this team for us? Look at his numbers in the playoffs, miles I'm talking about it, especially against us when he was with the pacers, he was terrible. He will not be shooting 41 percent from three next year that's first, he'll come back down to his norm average. Second he is purely a catch and shoot shooter, that is an adequate defender. He can't curl off screens, and create his own shot like Ross can. He can't get his shot off whenever he wants like he can, and he doesn't have the floor game he has. Stop this nonsense.