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Buff wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:There is zero truth to that and it's nothing more than conspiracy theory.

There is going to be a whole bunch of revisionism this year from people that made excuses for his conditioning, the work he put in and blaming everything on Casey.

There will be a lot revisionism, starting with this post.

But don't worry, it is all about touches and we know how quickly those dry up. Then is back to pick and roll and conditioning.

Hey I have one!! Let's talk about where Jonas is standing on every play. The 3 point line or so. He comes down the floor and stands at the 3 point line to initiate the play. Why don't you guys remind us how we were dumb again because we said he didn't have to play beside the basket, that spacing is good. Or we can revise and pretend nobody ever said that.

Johnny Bball wrote:Hey I have one!! Let's talk about where Jonas is standing on every play. The 3 point line or so. He comes down the floor and stands at the 3 point line to initiate the play. Why don't you guys remind us how we were dumb again because we said he didn't have to play beside the basket, that spacing is good. Or we can revise and pretend nobody ever said that.

First of all, all you guys said he was useless and we should dump him. So the silly comment about the 3pt line is in itself revisionist. But let me address it anyway: "whaaa?" Jonas is scoring around the basket and he is doing so because he is getting the ball. It is the same old JV, with touches.

It is still the same old argument and we shouldn't change into "well, he used to suck but NOW he got X just like I said"
You have got to stick to the argument that more touches is detrimental to Raptors basketball.

The problem with JV on this team is still the same. He's not a good defender in space and coupled with DeRozan out there it's a real problem. Put them in a pick and roll together and we're in trouble. Poeltl is already better in that regard, though obviously he's not the rebounder JV is.

And offensively, as skilled and physical as he is, does the team actually score better with him out there than with the extra spacing/3pt shooting you get from a decent stretch 4 like Patterson last year or hopefully Anunoby this year?

I think by the playoffs, we'll be best off with a starting lineup of Poeltl-Ibaka-Powell-Demar-Lowry and then JV can be a higher usage guy on a 2nd unit of JV-Anunoby-Miles-Wright-VanVleet though. And if we face the Cavs, it might have to be a starting group of Ibaka-Anunoby-Powell-Demar-Lowry with JV only out there when Tristan Thompson comes off the bench. Can't really see him being quick enough to defend effectively against a Love-Lebron-Crowder frontcourt.

Buff wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:Hey I have one!! Let's talk about where Jonas is standing on every play. The 3 point line or so. He comes down the floor and stands at the 3 point line to initiate the play. Why don't you guys remind us how we were dumb again because we said he didn't have to play beside the basket, that spacing is good. Or we can revise and pretend nobody ever said that.

First of all, all you guys said he was useless and we should dump him. So the silly comment about the 3pt line is in itself revisionist. But let me address it anyway: "whaaa?" Jonas is scoring around the basket and he is doing so because he is getting the ball. It is the same old JV, with touches.

It is still the same old argument and we shouldn't change into "well, he used to suck but NOW he got X just like I said"
You have got to stick to the argument that more touches is detrimental to Raptors basketball.

Oh now that's more revisionism. Lol there are few people that said dump him and I didn't. Trade him, maybe, depends what comes back. Useless? No, he couldn't stay on the floor and the reasons were his PNR defense, but now we are revising that, and its because we said he was useless? The problem is nobody could stand to hear him criticized. Some people hear what they want to hear.

Hey I got one. JV needs more touches. Now he touches the ball and initiates the play often at the top of the circle. He's didn't run down and stand under the basket every play like he use to every play. You didn't watch the game obviously, and now you're revising what just happened. He didn't touch the ball down low more at all. Which is what you all wanted. I'm not sure he even got more shots off than typical from last year, with this change.

Or hey... for years people said he should work on his conditioning. Well he finally did. And if you think any improvement in his speed won't come from that you're mistaken. Instead, you guys said was it wasn't his fault and it was never his fault and the team did it to him or he doesn't have to be in better shape. Well, seems like that was pretty wrong already doesn't it. you think decision making is easy when you're gassed?

Shall I go on?

How soon we forget the 30 he dropped on the Pistons last opening night. Let's just take it easy here.

Buff wrote:It is the same old JV, with touches.

It really isn't. This JV is actually making quick decisions instead of hesitating and pumpfaking.

How can anyone not be positive about what we saw from JV last night? And that was not the exact same JV. If nothing else, his passing has taken a step forward. 2 assists for Jonas is actually a freaking ton! It used to take him 4 games to get that many and that one assist to a cutting Lowry was a thing of beauty. Just a simple decision done perfectly.
His pick and roll ability and hitting that jump shot when left open at the free throw line is nothing new. Neither is having an outstanding rebound night, but the passing is something new without question.
Let's see if he can sustain it and if the team continues to display better ball movement against better competition, but for now life is good. And I say that as one of the most cynical guys on this board.

CoachJReturns wrote:How can anyone not be positive about what we saw from JV last night? And that was not the exact same JV. If nothing else, his passing has taken a step forward. 2 assists for Jonas is actually a freaking ton! It used to take him 4 games to get that many and that one assist to a cutting Lowry was a thing of beauty. Just a simple decision done perfectly.
His pick and roll ability and hitting that jump shot when left open at the free throw line is nothing new. Neither is having an outstanding rebound night, but the passing is something new without question.
Let's see if he can sustain it and if the team continues to display better ball movement against better competition, but for now life is good. And I say that as one of the most cynical guys on this board.

The passing and the touches are related as well, you are less likely to pass when you know it is "your turn" and you are not likely to get the ball again. That has been our offense, and trust me, when we hit a rough patch, it'll be like that again.

The best testament to JV abilities is that no-one bats an eye when he does 23/15, it's like: "yeah sure, he can do that".

Johnny Bball wrote:Shall I go on?

Yes please, it might increase your chances of making sense...

Buff wrote:

CoachJReturns wrote:How can anyone not be positive about what we saw from JV last night? And that was not the exact same JV. If nothing else, his passing has taken a step forward. 2 assists for Jonas is actually a freaking ton! It used to take him 4 games to get that many and that one assist to a cutting Lowry was a thing of beauty. Just a simple decision done perfectly.
His pick and roll ability and hitting that jump shot when left open at the free throw line is nothing new. Neither is having an outstanding rebound night, but the passing is something new without question.
Let's see if he can sustain it and if the team continues to display better ball movement against better competition, but for now life is good. And I say that as one of the most cynical guys on this board.

The passing and the touches are related as well, you are less likely to pass when you know it is "your turn" and you are not likely to get the ball again. That has been our offense, and trust me, when we hit a rough patch, it'll be like that again.

The best testament to JV abilities is that no-one bats an eye when he does 23/15, it's like: "yeah sure, he can do that".

I'm sure there will be moments when DeRozan and Lowry revert back to a more ISO-oriented mode, but overall, the team seems committed to this new type of offense.

JV said himself in this system he feels more comfortable passing the ball because he can finally get a chance to actually get it back.

I think it's clear based on the eye test alone (not counting box scores), he's a lot quicker, more decisive and more confident then I ever seen him since years past.

6ixSideSniper wrote:I think it's clear based on the eye test alone (not counting box scores), he's a lot quicker, more decisive and more confident then I ever seen him since years past.

This is it. Man Jonas was active all over the place last night. Rebounding, getting in quick second jumps on many boards, hustling, running the lanes for easy drop offs..

Seemed like a different player to the lumbering giant we had last season. Really, if Jonas can stay this active and energetic there is no way he doesn't get the ball more from Lowry / Demar and he will have massive rebound totals. Hell, even when a player has poor defensive instincts like Jonas a lot can be forgiven if said player just stays active and hustling.

It's only one game, we'll see if this is the return of the active, bouncy Jonas that we saw in his rookie seasons.

I have said this over and over again - JV is the 3rd best player on this team and has been heavily underutilized. If the Raptors are to make any sort of improvements, it will be due to JV rather than anything else. The rest of the team is pretty much the same. You can continue to change up the guards, and pretend to be a different team, but this is still the same Raptors. Where you can make a change is by actually utilizing your big man, who CAN play in the NBA and is actually pretty good.

Maybe this is the year, the coach finally starts using the player he has been wasting all these years. I know others don't agree with me, but at this stage in their careers, he's a better player than Ibaka, and easily the darkhorse on this team.

Basketball_Jones wrote:How soon we forget the 30 he dropped on the Pistons last opening night. Let's just take it easy here.

Pistons game shouldn't even count. He is Drummonds father like most people here likes to say.

It's one game... and something he does every first game.

Tha Cynic wrote:I have said this over and over again - JV is the 3rd best player on this team and has been heavily underutilized. If the Raptors are to make any sort of improvements, it will be due to JV rather than anything else. The rest of the team is pretty much the same. You can continue to change up the guards, and pretend to be a different team, but this is still the same Raptors. Where you can make a change is by actually utilizing your big man, who CAN play in the NBA and is actually pretty good.

Maybe this is the year, the coach finally starts using the player he has been wasting all these years. I know others don't agree with me, but at this stage in their careers, he's a better player than Ibaka, and easily the darkhorse on this team.

He was a bum last year, completely overweight and pick and roll something! They told you so!
This year is different, he did what they said and now pick and roll!

Until the idiot with the clipboard decides to take away the shots, then he'll be fat again and should be traded for Meyers Leonard.

They know a lot about basketball, you know? DPRM!!!!

I like what I see of JV.

I don't know what Ibaka is doing on offense but at least he is a scary mofo on defense.

Tha Cynic wrote:I have said this over and over again - JV is the 3rd best player on this team and has been heavily underutilized. If the Raptors are to make any sort of improvements, it will be due to JV rather than anything else. The rest of the team is pretty much the same. You can continue to change up the guards, and pretend to be a different team, but this is still the same Raptors. Where you can make a change is by actually utilizing your big man, who CAN play in the NBA and is actually pretty good.

Maybe this is the year, the coach finally starts using the player he has been wasting all these years. I know others don't agree with me, but at this stage in their careers, he's a better player than Ibaka, and easily the darkhorse on this team.

The funny thing is the team is utilizing him better by making him more of a playmaker, which has allowed the offense to flow more smoothly that formulates into possessions that end up back in Jonas' hands because of how well the ball is moving, but a lot of it started because Jonas is actually making better decisions with the ball. We're actually not running deliberate post ups anymore, which Casey actually did implement as part of the offense in years past with brush screens and all that. When people suggested ways to utilize Jonas more it came in the form of just getting him more shots, no one but one person has ever thought to put Jonas in positions where he can be a playmaker.

All this clairvoyance is funny to me because everyone is claiming that they knew Jonas is capable of this, yet never would have thought making him more of a playmaker would enable it. Only Thespionoid can brag about seeing it coming.

A lot will depend on coaching. Is he allowed to play through his mistakes this year, finally? I don't know. It's why I don't draft anyone on the Raptors other then Kyle/Demar for fantasy basketball. Casey is erratic with playing time to a lot of young players, which isn't really unusual. But JV is like 5-6 years in now, so let's see.

Same old JV , different ball , this one doesn't stick .

People need to stop bringing up last years opener. The way we're using him now is a lot different than last year.





We actually did a decent job of posting him up in last years offense. This year he's spending a lot more time in the high post, but the reason he's getting more shot attempts is because he's actually not pumpfaking and making decisive decisions with the ball as well as actually rolling to the rim.