The Curious Case of VanVleet

[YogurtProducer]

You look at VanVleets base numbers and cannot help but be somewhat underwhelmed. He averages only 5.7ppg, 1.6rpg, and 2.5apg in 15.7 minutes, with a shooting split of 38/32/89. He is not much of a scorer, not much of a playmaker, finishes atrociously at the rim, and is shooting very meh from 3 so far this year. Yet all this guy does is win. In an almost Kyle Lowry type of fashion, this undrafted point guard is leading the team and I am not really sure how.

Since Delon has gone down, he leads the team with a whopping +29.8NTRG and the biggest on/off split as the team gets 28.8 points worse when he hits the bench. He has played the 6th most minutes, and is playing with literally everyone. His most played lineup in that timeframe with 12 minutes is Lorenzo Brown, Jakob Poeltl, Norman Powell, and Pascal Siakam; essentially the bench mob we are going to see all year except with Brown instead of CJ/Delon. But then his 2nd most unit? Lowry, Ibaka, Demar, Siakam; essentially the starters. Down in 4th we see CJ Miles, Brown, OG and Nogueria lineup. These 3 lineups are posting a +33.6, a +8.5, and a 35.6NRTG. Essentially VanVleet has played, and exceeded, with literally every single player on the Raptors roster who is somewhat in the rotation. Starters, bench players, deep bench players, it does not matter.

I got looking a little bit deeper and the Raps have only been outscored with VanVleet on the court 3 times all season long. -3 in San Antonio, -1 in Golden State, and -9 against the Lakers (3 games in a row I might add).

How does this guy do it? On paper, he is an awful basketball player, but somehow it has led to results.

[VanWest82]

Our Marcus Smart. Some guys just have a knack for making winning plays that don't show up in the box score. Also, as he gets older he gets younger. Maybe that's his secret.

[Asif16]

-He's relentless defensively.
-Has a very high IQ
-Has a very quick first step to break the defense down
-Willing passer/great court vision
-Not afraid to drive to the rim
-Decent enough shooting (Has an amazing shooting form, so his shooting is bound to get better with more playing time)

[Jonas DeRoss]

i think fvv is a very capable shooter but his numbers are a bit skewed because he reallllly struggled early in the season but one thing about fred that has always seemed apparent is his confidence.... dude is literally oozing confidence and like the most of the guys in the bench mob he just gives 100% effort

[Clementine64]

Yeah this is pretty intriguing because to me he passes the eye test when I watch him lay it on the line every night. I recently looked at his shooting percentage etc and was perplexed how bad it was. Now seeing the +/- makes him even more of an enigma.

If I had to draw any conclusions from this I'd lean towards him just having a shooting slump, but still doing all the other things right that doesn't show up on the box score like defense, drawing charges, making plans and getting into the opponents head etc. The things he does is much more important than stuffing the stat sheet. Or perhaps he's just a terrible shooter and once he develops his shot more he will be a high end role player? Either way he's contributing to the cause and we pay him peanuts, so it's hard to hate on him

[Kurtz]

.... dude is literally oozing confidence

Gross.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Our new plus minus god, who seemingly isn't good at anything counted by basic stats or really efficient at all....the pat pat of point guards Fred VanVleet.

[dballislife]

not gifted with size, not an athlete by nba standards, but fvv works hard and competes every possession on D

his offense has been night and day the last 10 games compared to first 10, its nothing special but hes aggressive and makes use of what hes got, its a very poor mans lowry on offense but hes still young enough and is just a backup for now so its passable

[T-d0t]

Not sure what we do with him since hes going to be an RFA. Going to need to clear cap to avoid the luxury tax to sign him.

[Clutch Carter]

VV has been deadly from 3 lately, something like 45% on ~3 attempts a game in his last 8 when I was looking at his numbers earlier... go back another 8 or 9 games previous and he only hit 1.

His earlier play was pretty bad skewing his numbers down but lately he's been great.

[Tofubeque]

His most played lineup in that timeframe with 12 minutes is Lorenzo Brown, Jakob Poeltl, Norman Powell, and Pascal Siakam; essentially the bench mob we are going to see all year except with Brown instead of CJ/Delon. But then his 2nd most unit? Lowry, Ibaka, Demar, Siakam; essentially the starters. Down in 4th we see CJ Miles, Brown, OG and Nogueria lineup.

What those 3 lineups have in common, besides FVV, is that they're all 2 PG lineups.

We all like to make fun of Casey's love of multiple PG lineups, but they're getting results. If we want an offense with better ball movement, it helps to play guys who are good at driving and moving the ball. They don't even have to be a threat in any other way, like Brown, and they can still help just by being out there, keeping things flowing and not turning it over much.

This team actually has good offensive weapons at its disposal - a couple of elite 3pt shooters in Lowry and Miles, a couple of high-efficiency PNR bigs in Poeltl and Nogueira with good hands/reach. Having the ball movement to utilize those options is what this team has always needed. Van Vleet is helping in that, and as mentioned already he also always plays hard on defense, which you can't teach.

[mowcrowbar]

.... dude is literally oozing confidence

Gross.

He's literally oozing a substance called confidence? Does he need to get checked out? Is it contagious? Don't let him get near DeRozan and Lowry.

[mrdressup]

Love me some Fred VV. Really wanted him to make the team last year and still think he's a keeper. Excellent ball handler. Super tough on the ball and very aggressive defensively. I'm very much afraid that someone's going to snipe him from us if we keep rolling the dice on Delon Wright. Fred's a good shooter and he gets to the basket better than anyone on our team. Poor man's I. Thomas if you ask me. Great temperament too.

[sule]

He's passed 1.0 Bargnani's, so he's proven to be good enough to be reliable on any given night. The numbers don't back it up, but the eye test does.

I was skeptical last year and early this year on whether he could be anything more than what Lorenzo Brown or any of our other numerous 15th men have been. But he's been a pleasant surprise. If he's really found his game and will be this kind of player on a consistent basis, it might end up being a good problem to have for next year and beyond, if Delon Wright continues to be injured

[elecblue]

For the last 8 games, he’s shooting 13/28 on 3s, with 34assists vs 7 TOs. He fights hard on D, and he makes the right plays. I think this is sustainable, because his shooting touch is legit.

[MikeM]

His defence is borderline elite for a PG. Especially against the pick and roll. He stuffs the first move more often than not, and the opposing PG has to make another, usually something he doesn't want to do.

[Kabookalu]

Since the start of the season I've been paying close attention to Van Vleet's game. Defensively he's basically Cory Joseph; tough in your face defender, but I actually think Fred is a better help defender. He's just so damn smart, always makes the right reads all the time, especially in moments when the ball is at its most vulnerable, like on hand offs or in the post. I don't know if there's a stat for this but wouldn't surprise me if he leads the league in committing turnovers when he's doubling a player.

Offensively I have not been able to figure that out.

[scopy]

For the last 8 games, he’s shooting 13/28 on 3s, with 34assists vs 7 TOs. He fights hard on D, and he makes the right plays. I think this is sustainable, because his shooting touch is legit.

Was just going to post something similar. I was as perplexed as the OP. But the last couple of weeks, he has been great.
I mean 9 assists tonight with 0 turnovers, (Jose Calderon-esque) except that he plays defense aggressively like a bulldog.
Now that he's hitting open 3's... its amazing.

However, I want Delon back helping with PG position ASAP.
Although Lowry got 36pts tonight, I want him doing this in playoffs rather than now.

[RaptorsLife]

He's really good. Masai really gave us 3 first round picks in 2016

[TooBad]

FVV is definitely our best backup PG that's for sure.