JV with a whopping 47 pts allowed vs. Phoenix

[VanWest82]

First the disclaimer: I recognize that JV wasn't solely responsible for each of the below made baskets. In some cases, he was only indirectly involved, or he played solid D and just got beat by better O. Sometimes he was giving help correctly and it didn't work out. But there was lots of bad D on made baskets, and lots of bad D on missed ones too that I didn't bother noting.

This game was particularly egregious, but I think it emphasizes what most of us are saying wrt JV's poor defense (i.e. he gets attacked a lot and scored on a lot). People will get caught up in the 47 number, and they shouldn't because whether it's 47 or 37 or should have been 57 (if Suns had made more of their open looks) it doesn't really matter. What matters is that 20/10 can't overcome this kind of defensive impact. Sorry to be such a troll after a win.

Anyways here are the made baskets allowed where JV was centrally involved:

Q1 10:34: Monroe scores over JV in the post (2 points)
Q1 10:01: JV leaves Monroe to unnecessarily double Ulis along the baseline, who finds Monroe for the easy basket (2 points)
Q1 8:51: Ulis beats Lowry off the dribble from the side and moves horizontally toward FT line. Instead of stepping up to help, JV actually backs under the basket, guarding no one, and Ulis hits the wide open J (2 points)
Q1 8:18: Monroe beats JV in the post with a nifty move that gets him all the way to the other side of the rim. He misses a bunny but Warren beats JV, who's now trailing, to the tip in (2 points).
Q1 5:36: Ulis comes off high PnR. JV is too low and commits late leaving Monroe wide open by the basket to be fouled (2 points)
Q1 5:10: Warren comes off high PnR. JV is way too deep again so Warren, wide open, pulls up from mid range and gets fouled by OG who almost makes a herculian effort to block the shot (2 points)
Q1 4:50: Ulis comes off side PnR. JV doesn't step out so Ulis pulls up for the wide open J near the baseline (2 points)
Q1 4:20: Troy Daniels comes off PnR and makes a three off the bounce. JV is all the way at the bottom of the circle (3 points)
Q1 3:57: JV leaves Len to contest Daniels in the lane. Len gets fouled on the put back (2 points) Note: You could make a case this one shouldn't be on JV but he was centrally involved so I added it anyways
Q1 3:01: Ulis hits Len on PnR. JV fouls Len who completes the three point play (3 points)

Total Q1 points allowed: 22

Q2 5:00: Monroe Js right in JV's face (2 points)
Q2 1:52: Ulis hits Monroe on PnR and he scores over JV (2 points)
Q2 1:15: Ulis comes off PnR and somehow manages to get by JV and score even though JV starts the coverage all the way back at the hash mark (2 points)

Total Q2 points allowed: 6

Q3 10:27: Monroe scores over JV with a nifty post move in the lane (2 points)
Q3 10:09: Ulis hits Warren along the baseline and he finishes around JV who had picked him up in transition (2 points)
Q3 8:29: Ulis comes off high PnR. JV doesn't come out of the paint, but Lowry somehow recovers, forcing Ulis to drive toward baseline where JV fouls him (2 points)
Q3 7:47: Josh Jackson lays it off to Monroe in transition who scores over JV in the lane (2 points)
Q3 7:23: Ulis drives into the paint but strong side help forces him to pass back to Monroe at the opposite elbow. OG provides help initially but then leaves him open. JV starts to come out and challenge the shot but stops for some reason. Monroe has a quick coffee, takes a ****, then hits the wide open J (2 points)
Q3 6:14: Ulis drops off to Bender at the three point line in transition then cuts toward the baseline and receives the ball. JV is closest defender but doesn't leave the paint to challenge the shot. OG almost recovers for the block (2 points)

Total Q3 points allowed: 12

Q4 1:52: Warren gets isolated on JV and gets the blow by. Ibaka comes over to help and fouls him (2 points)
Q4 1:28: JV is overly aggressive defending Monroe and gives up a blow by. JV fouls him while trying to recover (1 point)
Q4 1:10: Warren comes off high PnR and goes right at JV and finishes over top of him. Big boy move (2 points)
Q4 0:23: TO play run for Daniels. Right as the ball is inbounded (to Warren) JV loses track of his man (Monroe) and unnecessarily doubles Warren (Ibaka's man) instead. This leaves Monroe to screen for Daniels who receives the pass on a cut near the three point line. JV realizes he needs to provide help but takes the wrong angle, leaving an ocean of room in the middle of floor. Daniels pulls up and hits a wide open J (2 points)

Total Q4 points allowed: 7

[hsb]

Not bad for having the second best defensive rating in the game.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

And he was plus 16. Not sure what it all means.

If i were to look to blame for the closeness of the game, I'd look to the guys getting outscored. Imagine our bench performed typically, we'd win by like 20 with JV giving up all those points.

[dukes_wild]

When will people learn that Casey is the reason JV drops all the time? He's stated multiple times over the years that they like to keep JV as close to the paint as possible defensively, even if it means allowing an open mid range shot. Maybe if our guards learned how to either A: Not die on screens or B: Just go under and at least get a semi-contest, this wouldn't be a problem

[Mister Ze]

[RaptorsLife]

Ridiculous thread. I'm a jv hater but if you need to do all this research 2 hours after the game to dis credit JV. You gotta reevaluate you're life

This is coming from someone has 30 000 posts in almost 3 years lol

[GreatWhiteStiff]

How many points were allowed on nonJV causality plays when jv was on the court(ie not counting those 47 points)? Like 5? Not sure how he could be so positive if he gave up all those points? Our defence must've been alltime great around him.

[Johnny Bball]

He gave up either 20 or 22 points to Monroe and Len while he was on the floor against either. But at least he held his own then.

[VanWest82]

When will people learn that Casey is the reason JV drops all the time? He's stated multiple times over the years that they like to keep JV as close to the paint as possible defensively, even if it means allowing an open mid range shot. Maybe if our guards learned how to either A: Not die on screens or B: Just go under and at least get a semi-contest, this wouldn't be a problem

Does Casey coach Lithuania too because he regularly drops too far back on PnR with them as well. Also, there's a difference between not showing or hedging PnR and refusing to leave the paint. I promise you no one is instructing JV to hang back behind the foul line on high PnR, especially when the ball handler is also a shooter (often the case).

[GooniesNeverDie]

this is nonsense.. you're isolating JV while ignoring our scheme. i wonder what the result would be if you did this with any other player

[mowcrowbar]

This is beyond madness.

[Johnny Bball]

When will people learn that Casey is the reason JV drops all the time? He's stated multiple times over the years that they like to keep JV as close to the paint as possible defensively, even if it means allowing an open mid range shot. Maybe if our guards learned how to either A: Not die on screens or B: Just go under and at least get a semi-contest, this wouldn't be a problem

Do you think there’s a choice there. He hedged 1-2% of the time in previous years. And he is asked to ice the sideline pnr and not drop back, which he usually does. So they don’t ask him to always drop back just to stay in the paint. And you dont go under screens against good 3 point shooters. Nobody does.

[VanWest82]

I get that some fans aren't going to like this thread but given how much internet ink we've all spilled discussing JV I thought it would be interesting to do a play by play analysis of his made baskets against. I can't recall seeing anyone do that before. If no one finds it valuable...oh well, it was only an hour of my time I'll never get back lol.

[d00lttle]

I agree that the Raptors defensive schema with JV guarding the PnR is to allow the mid-range shot, but sometime it seems he drops too low. Like as soon as his man sets the screen he'll quickly shuffle all the way to the restricted area. Just imagine if JV had to do that against Derozan, he would just get eaten up with all the floaters and euro-steps. Maybe we can trade him to the Celtics or Cavs just so we can face him in the playoffs.

[raptor jesus]

When will people learn that Casey is the reason JV drops all the time? He's stated multiple times over the years that they like to keep JV as close to the paint as possible defensively, even if it means allowing an open mid range shot. Maybe if our guards learned how to either A: Not die on screens or B: Just go under and at least get a semi-contest, this wouldn't be a problem

That's bogus. The coaching staff deserves flack for how often JV misses these coverages, but it's certainly not by design. Especially when guys like Curry, Kemba, Lillard are coming off screens - these are wide open in rhythm 3s he's giving up, not just mid rangers. It's probably THE infraction that lands him on the bench more than any other. We also see this bad habit when he's with his national team. I agree the guards, especially Lowry, need to be better getting over screens; but Jonas has to be in the area as well.

[Volcano]

JV isn't a strong defender, but your method of deriving "pts allowed" seems...stupid?

Just taking the first few for instance:

Q1 10:01: JV leaves Monroe to double Ulis along the baseline, who finds Monroe for the easy basket (2 points)

Was he doubling randomly or was Ulis driving baseline?

Q1 8:51: Ulis beats Lowry off the dribble from the side and moves horizontally toward baseline. Instead of stepping up to help, JV actually backs under the basket, guarding no one and Ulis hits the wide open J (2 points)

Isn't the exact opposite of the above case? It's JV's fault for helping..now he doesn't help and it's his fault again?

Q1 8:18: Monroe beats JV in the post with a nifty move that gets him all the way to the other side of the rim. He misses a bunny but Warren beats JV, who's now trailing, to the tip in (2 points).

who's boxing out Warren?

Can you use the same criteria to calculate pts allowed by every other player? For instance, Lowry should have 4 pts against in this case.

[VanWest82]

JV isn't a strong defender, but your method of deriving "pts allowed" seems...stupid?

Just taking the first few for instance:

Q1 10:01: JV leaves Monroe to double Ulis along the baseline, who finds Monroe for the easy basket (2 points)

Was he doubling randomly or was Ulis driving baseline?

Q1 8:51: Ulis beats Lowry off the dribble from the side and moves horizontally toward baseline. Instead of stepping up to help, JV actually backs under the basket, guarding no one and Ulis hits the wide open J (2 points)

Isn't the exact opposite of the above case? It's JV's fault for helping..now he doesn't help and it's his fault again?

Q1 8:18: Monroe beats JV in the post with a nifty move that gets him all the way to the other side of the rim. He misses a bunny but Warren beats JV, who's now trailing, to the tip in (2 points).

who's boxing out Warren?

Can you use the same criteria to calculate pts allowed by every other player? For instance, Lowry should have 4 pts against in this case.

I think it's fair to criticize how I tabulated the 47 number which is why I put the disclaimer in. Definitely there were cases where JV did the right things and just got scored on, or got hung out to dry by teammates. But he still got scored on, and it wasn't like that was the main thing driving those made baskets (i.e. it was JV's defensive errors that made the biggest impact most of the time).

To answer your specific plays:

Q1 10:01: Yes I believe JV unnecessarily doubled. Lowry had Ulis covered (i.e. between Ulis and the basket). If you're going to help along the baseline (which acts as a second defender already), shade over so there's a threat of an extra defender without losing your man. Instead of Lowry stifling the play or giving up a contested shot, we gave up an easy basket to Monroe because JV over-committed when it wasn't needed.
Q1 8:51: I made an error typing baseline when I meant free throw line, and have corrected it. Thanks! In this case JV was guarding no one. Ulis drove horizontally right in front of him with no other defender in sight, and JV chose to do nothing. This play was one of his worst IMO.
Q1 8:18: Fair point about the box out but fact is JV got beat one on one. Perhaps we wouldn't have needed a box out if that hadn't happened, hence why I included it.

[Boogie!]

do me a favour and do a defensive break down of the knicks game when jv was sent to the bench and the knicks went on a 20-0 run.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I still want to know how many points were scored against us that were not JV caused.

[Clutch Carter]

Yeah, sure.