Lewenberg: Raptors no longer interested in VC

[slimdiamante]

Um no. You have hall of famers in those teams. I'll take the Knicks (Sprewell, Houston), 76ers with the Answer, and J Kidd's Nets teams over the current raptors teams. Even the Bucks back then were a good team with Big Dog, Ray Ray and Sam I am. Those teams were mentally tough and performed well in the playoffs.

All those teams were garbage with the exception of the one hit wonder Bucks. They should have made the Finals in 01 if not for some shady officiating.

We'd still beat them though. The Cavs that beat us the last 2 years would have swept all those teams. The East was anemic in those days. There's a reason the West won every title from 99-03.

Without Jordan; the West was better throughout the 90's too. I'll take those Blazers/Sonics/Jazz/Rockets/Spurs squads over the Pacers/Knicks. Hands down. This trend of the West being better is hardly new.

But d00de, those teams had Hall of Famers!

I mean, this just in, there are guys playing in the east right now that are going to be hall of famers -- LeBron(the arguable GOAT), Kevin Love? Kyrie, Giannis, Embiid? And yet somehow, the Raptors are the cream of the crop right now. And are at worst, only behind Cleveland.

Cream of the crop in the regular season, but duds in the playoffs. Like Baron Davis said "There's something off with this team".

Tell me in the last 4 playoff years which of the teams the raptors beat are legit good teams:

Indiana - borderline superstar PG who aint the same after the injury.
Miami Heat - Old DWade
Bucks - Young up and coming team with legit superstar Giannis but still too young to be considered contenders.

And yet in these playoff series the DD and Lowry did not show any consistent, monumental stat stuffing performances. If they showed dominance in those series, then I would be more confident.

I remember telling my boys that the Steve Nash Phoenix Suns teams last decade were regular season teams and can't win it all. Same with the raptors. But at least Steve Nash performed well in the playoffs unlike the brick bros.

I wish this raptors team well in the playoffs don't get me wrong. But I'll stick with historical results for now and say they don't have what it takes. I got to see it to believe it.

[ReaLiez]

Straight up, I was on the fence but now I read that we offered him a contract last summer and he went to the Kings instead.

Can we move on? He doesn't give af so why should we

well, one is offering peanuts and the other a ferrari... i mean, who would blame the guy? Sac seem to like him there as well.

This guy is a 41 year old multi millionaire. He choose to chase money instead of legacy...and we're here trying to add honour to his legacy while he has no interest in that arena. He's irrelevant ...

[vaff87]

All those teams were garbage with the exception of the one hit wonder Bucks. They should have made the Finals in 01 if not for some shady officiating.

We'd still beat them though. The Cavs that beat us the last 2 years would have swept all those teams. The East was anemic in those days. There's a reason the West won every title from 99-03.

Without Jordan; the West was better throughout the 90's too. I'll take those Blazers/Sonics/Jazz/Rockets/Spurs squads over the Pacers/Knicks. Hands down. This trend of the West being better is hardly new.

But d00de, those teams had Hall of Famers!

I mean, this just in, there are guys playing in the east right now that are going to be hall of famers -- LeBron(the arguable GOAT), Kevin Love? Kyrie, Giannis, Embiid? And yet somehow, the Raptors are the cream of the crop right now. And are at worst, only behind Cleveland.

Cream of the crop in the regular season, but duds in the playoffs. Like Baron Davis said "There's something off with this team".

Tell me in the last 4 playoff years which of the teams the raptors beat are legit good teams:

Indiana - borderline superstar PG who aint the same after the injury.
Miami Heat - Old DWade
Bucks - Young up and coming team with legit superstar Giannis but still too young to be considered contenders.

And yet in these playoff series the DD and Lowry did not show any consistent, monumental stat stuffing performances. If they showed dominance in those series, then I would be more confident.

I remember telling my boys that the Steve Nash Phoenix Suns teams last decade were regular season teams and can't win it all. Same with the raptors. But at least Steve Nash performed well in the playoffs unlike the brick bros.

I wish this raptors team well in the playoffs don't get me wrong. But I'll stick with historical results for now and say they don't have what it takes. I got to see it to believe it.

Team is completely different than the last few years. I've already pointed out the differences in this thread. We'll just have to wait and see.

You Vince fanboys just want to hold onto the notion that the Vince era was the best in franchise history. Despite all evidence to the contrary -- including playoff success! Your hero when you were 8, just has to be the bestest ever!

I get it, it's like growing up and finding out your dad wasn't this superman you thought he was. Just way more sad...

[kritical]

I see VC coming if Raptors make the finals, and he just sits on the bench like Juwan Howard when he won NBA championship with Miami heat 2013

[slimdiamante]

But d00de, those teams had Hall of Famers!

I mean, this just in, there are guys playing in the east right now that are going to be hall of famers -- LeBron(the arguable GOAT), Kevin Love? Kyrie, Giannis, Embiid? And yet somehow, the Raptors are the cream of the crop right now. And are at worst, only behind Cleveland.

Cream of the crop in the regular season, but duds in the playoffs. Like Baron Davis said "There's something off with this team".

Tell me in the last 4 playoff years which of the teams the raptors beat are legit good teams:

Indiana - borderline superstar PG who aint the same after the injury.
Miami Heat - Old DWade
Bucks - Young up and coming team with legit superstar Giannis but still too young to be considered contenders.

And yet in these playoff series the DD and Lowry did not show any consistent, monumental stat stuffing performances. If they showed dominance in those series, then I would be more confident.

I remember telling my boys that the Steve Nash Phoenix Suns teams last decade were regular season teams and can't win it all. Same with the raptors. But at least Steve Nash performed well in the playoffs unlike the brick bros.

I wish this raptors team well in the playoffs don't get me wrong. But I'll stick with historical results for now and say they don't have what it takes. I got to see it to believe it.

Team is completely different than the last few years. I've already pointed out the differences in this thread. We'll just have to wait and see.

You Vince fanboys just want to hold onto the notion that the Vince era was the best in franchise history. Despite all evidence to the contrary -- including playoff success! Your hero when you were 8, just has to be the bestest ever!

I get it, it's like growing up and finding out your dad wasn't this superman you thought he was. Just way more sad...

As a kid, grew up watching ball since the early 90s, Pistons bad boy era, Jordan 6 rings, Rockets, etc. I would say that Vince ain't in my top 5 of best players I've ever seen in my life, but I have to give him respect for being critical in expanding basketball culture in Canada in the early 2ks and also putting raps on the map.

I'm just a realist and accepted the fact that the raptors are a novelty team and are only around to generate revenue and not win championships. I felt this way ever since BC drafted Bustnani.

[pkiskool]

I see VC coming if Raptors make the finals, and he just sits on the bench like Juwan Howard when he won NBA championship with Miami heat 2013

You can't just expect a guy to show up for the finals...
This is probably over now...
Vince will just retire at season end.
His jersey will be retired one day but not anytime soon.

[teamLeiweke]

Thank goodness!!

Masai is too smart.

If anything, let him stop playing basketball, sign him to 1-day contract, so he can retire a Raptor, and that’s it.

He should not play any minutes for us during this era. Would be an unneeded, unhelpful, distraction. I don’t even want to retire his jersey.

[PhilBlackson]

I see VC coming if Raptors make the finals, and he just sits on the bench like Juwan Howard when he won NBA championship with Miami heat 2013

You can't just expect a guy to show up for the finals...
This is probably over now...
Vince will just retire at season end.
His jersey will be retired one day but not anytime soon.

I was all for bringing back Vince but his complete lack of effort on his side to try & get anything done I say f*ck him and I honestly don't mean that as bitter as it sounds but we made our interest public and if his INTENTIONS were right he should have been all over that. Instead it exposes that really it was all about him n him alone.

I believed forgive & forget (still do) and even in second chances but he didn't even desire one and clearly wasn't thinking he'd like to make things right or any true remorse for how things ended. It was lip service for his own ego to get "honored" by our crowd because there's no other franchise that he has any real roots to anymore with NJ gone. We gave him 2 chances here, one in the offseason he elected for money which I understand, then another even after he collected to make it a right n even be a part of a special time for the franchise n he still turned it down, so f*ck him n it's really not a big deal honestly.

There's no way I want to honor a guy who didn't do the honorable thing for the right reasons/intentions when we tried to do the mature thing for every party involved. If he wants a farewell tour after or a jersey retirement let him get it in PHX, MEM, DAL or one of the other dozen meaningless stops he's made in his career because this franchise doesn't need to cater to his desires, it's been real lol deuces

[vaff87]

Cream of the crop in the regular season, but duds in the playoffs. Like Baron Davis said "There's something off with this team".

Tell me in the last 4 playoff years which of the teams the raptors beat are legit good teams:

Indiana - borderline superstar PG who aint the same after the injury.
Miami Heat - Old DWade
Bucks - Young up and coming team with legit superstar Giannis but still too young to be considered contenders.

And yet in these playoff series the DD and Lowry did not show any consistent, monumental stat stuffing performances. If they showed dominance in those series, then I would be more confident.

I remember telling my boys that the Steve Nash Phoenix Suns teams last decade were regular season teams and can't win it all. Same with the raptors. But at least Steve Nash performed well in the playoffs unlike the brick bros.

I wish this raptors team well in the playoffs don't get me wrong. But I'll stick with historical results for now and say they don't have what it takes. I got to see it to believe it.

Team is completely different than the last few years. I've already pointed out the differences in this thread. We'll just have to wait and see.

You Vince fanboys just want to hold onto the notion that the Vince era was the best in franchise history. Despite all evidence to the contrary -- including playoff success! Your hero when you were 8, just has to be the bestest ever!

I get it, it's like growing up and finding out your dad wasn't this superman you thought he was. Just way more sad...

As a kid, grew up watching ball since the early 90s, Pistons bad boy era, Jordan 6 rings, Rockets, etc. I would say that Vince ain't in my top 5 of best players I've ever seen in my life, but I have to give him respect for being critical in expanding basketball culture in Canada in the early 2ks and also putting raps on the map.

I'm just a realist and accepted the fact that the raptors are a novelty team and are only around to generate revenue and not win championships. I felt this way ever since BC drafted Bustnani.

None of that has anything to do with anything.

I'm not here saying Vince wasn't a key figure in expanding basketball in Canada. He was obviously much more marketable than the current team. But that doesn't mean the Raptors teams he was on were better than the current Raptors. All evidence points to that not being true -- regular season success, playoff success, sustained success, etc. I'm more or less talking about those Raptors teams, not Vince himself. Those teams just weren't that good.

However, as I said before, while Vince was great, he was nowhere near the level of someone like LeBron. 2000-2001 Raptors won 47 games. Replace Vince with prime LeBron, they win 60.

[PD28]

I see VC coming if Raptors make the finals, and he just sits on the bench like Juwan Howard when he won NBA championship with Miami heat 2013

You can't just expect a guy to show up for the finals...
This is probably over now...
Vince will just retire at season end.
His jersey will be retired one day but not anytime soon.

I was all for bringing back Vince but his complete lack of effort on his side to try & get anything done I say f*ck him and I honestly don't mean that as bitter as it sounds but we made our interest public and if his INTENTIONS were right he should have been all over that. Instead it exposes that really it was all about him n him alone.

I believed forgive & forget (still do) and even in second chances but he didn't even desire one and clearly wasn't thinking he'd like to make things right or any true remorse for how things ended. It was lip service for his own ego to get "honored" by our crowd because there's no other franchise that he has any real roots to anymore with NJ gone. We gave him 2 chances here, one in the offseason he elected for money which I understand, then another even after he collected to make it a right n even be a part of a special time for the franchise n he still turned it down, so f*ck him n it's really not a big deal honestly.

There's no way I want to honor a guy who didn't do the honorable thing for the right reasons/intentions when we tried to do the mature thing for every party involved. If he wants a farewell tour after or a jersey retirement let him get it in PHX, MEM, DAL or one of the other dozen meaningless stops he's made in his career because this franchise doesn't need to cater to his desires, it's been real lol deuces

Totally agree with your points. It's easy to talk the talk of "coming home or doing the right thing" but he doesn't actually want to DO those things lol. Sacramento is one of the worst franchises in the league not trying to do anything and he wants to stay there lmfao. He just wants Toronto to believe it so they yearn for his attention like we actually care anymore. At the end of the day, will his jersey be retired - probably. Should it be before DeMar - Hell no. DeMar deserves to be the first up there, VC can wait.

[pkiskool]

I see VC coming if Raptors make the finals, and he just sits on the bench like Juwan Howard when he won NBA championship with Miami heat 2013

You can't just expect a guy to show up for the finals...
This is probably over now...
Vince will just retire at season end.
His jersey will be retired one day but not anytime soon.

I was all for bringing back Vince but his complete lack of effort on his side to try & get anything done I say f*ck him and I honestly don't mean that as bitter as it sounds but we made our interest public and if his INTENTIONS were right he should have been all over that. Instead it exposes that really it was all about him n him alone.

I believed forgive & forget (still do) and even in second chances but he didn't even desire one and clearly wasn't thinking he'd like to make things right or any true remorse for how things ended. It was lip service for his own ego to get "honored" by our crowd because there's no other franchise that he has any real roots to anymore with NJ gone. We gave him 2 chances here, one in the offseason he elected for money which I understand, then another even after he collected to make it a right n even be a part of a special time for the franchise n he still turned it down, so f*ck him n it's really not a big deal honestly.

There's no way I want to honor a guy who didn't do the honorable thing for the right reasons/intentions when we tried to do the mature thing for every party involved. If he wants a farewell tour after or a jersey retirement let him get it in PHX, MEM, DAL or one of the other dozen meaningless stops he's made in his career because this franchise doesn't need to cater to his desires, it's been real lol deuces

We don't know if he tried or not.
Unless I'm missing something.

[PhilBlackson]

You can't just expect a guy to show up for the finals...
This is probably over now...
Vince will just retire at season end.
His jersey will be retired one day but not anytime soon.

I was all for bringing back Vince but his complete lack of effort on his side to try & get anything done I say f*ck him and I honestly don't mean that as bitter as it sounds but we made our interest public and if his INTENTIONS were right he should have been all over that. Instead it exposes that really it was all about him n him alone.

I believed forgive & forget (still do) and even in second chances but he didn't even desire one and clearly wasn't thinking he'd like to make things right or any true remorse for how things ended. It was lip service for his own ego to get "honored" by our crowd because there's no other franchise that he has any real roots to anymore with NJ gone. We gave him 2 chances here, one in the offseason he elected for money which I understand, then another even after he collected to make it a right n even be a part of a special time for the franchise n he still turned it down, so f*ck him n it's really not a big deal honestly.

There's no way I want to honor a guy who didn't do the honorable thing for the right reasons/intentions when we tried to do the mature thing for every party involved. If he wants a farewell tour after or a jersey retirement let him get it in PHX, MEM, DAL or one of the other dozen meaningless stops he's made in his career because this franchise doesn't need to cater to his desires, it's been real lol deuces

Totally agree with your points. It's easy to talk the talk of "coming home or doing the right thing" but he doesn't actually want to DO those things lol. Sacramento is one of the worst franchises in the league not trying to do anything and he wants to stay there lmfao. He just wants Toronto to believe it so they yearn for his attention like we actually care anymore. At the end of the day, will his jersey be retired - probably. Should it be before DeMar - Hell no. DeMar deserves to be the first up there, VC can wait.

Nah, at this point I don't think it should EVER be retired here.

It's one thing if both sides attempted to make things right and did so --- it's another when you figuratively extend your hand to shake on it and the other party walks away then later expects you to not only welcome them again when it's convenient for THEM but honor them as well?! F*CK THAT!! lol

We can be the more mature party, let it go without hostility and go our separate ways, no problem. But hell no to let someone treat our franchise like some doormat in an one-sided relationship, he take this L n keep it moving lol because we're doing amazing without him, we were just trying to be nice n let him be a part of something but he can wither away in obscurity if he likes. It's his own bed, let him lay in it.

[PhilBlackson]

We don't know if he tried or not.
Unless I'm missing something.

Sure there's nothing "definitive" but...

The Kings made it clear they wanted to keep him BUT would let him to go if HE really wanted to be a part of something else.

...I'm not sure that it takes much more reading between the lines than that.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Honestly, at this point I'm not sure he would crack our top 10.

If he comes back, it's just to hang his jersey. They can do that in the summer.

[Courtside]

Nah, at this point I don't think it should EVER be retired here.

It's one thing if both sides attempted to make things right and did so --- it's another when you figuratively extend your hand to shake on it and the other party walks away then later expects you to not only welcome them again when it's convenient for THEM but honor them as well?! F*CK THAT!! lol

We can be the more mature party, let it go without hostility and go our separate ways, no problem. But hell no to let someone treat our franchise like some doormat in an one-sided relationship, he take this L n keep it moving lol because we're doing amazing without him, we were just trying to be nice n let him be a part of something but he can wither away in obscurity if he likes. It's his own bed, let him lay in it.

See - now you're sounding like the immature and irrational one - creating story lines that don't exist.

Vince doesn't even have to do or say anything, and this is the kind of reaction he elicits - which is exactly the proof you need that right now - on our way to a very deep playoff run during our best year ever - is not the right time to throw the Vince-bomb into the locker room. People simply cannot be fully rational about him, nor can he ever do or say the right things to please everyone, and the coaching staff sure as hell doesn't want to be looking over their shoulders at the fans who are griping about why Vince is or isn't playing, why Vince is or isn't getting shots, etc...

We don't need to take an L because we don't need Vince. This is the best team we have ever assembled and we're in first freaking place. That is story line enough without adding any fantasy scenarios attached to former players. It wouldn't be nice at all for him to be part of this because what we have right now was built from the mess that was left after he was purged from the team. He may have earned the right to be honored as a former star who helped the Raptors make footholds in this market, but that is not the same as earning the right to piggy back on the hard work that the organization and these players have put in to get here. That would be oh-so-Vince, actually, which is exactly why it shouldn't happen.

It's just not the right time and even Vince knows it. Stop acting like drama queens. If there is to be an official "VC retires as a Raptor moment", then it is next year. Not now. And he doesn't have to virtue signal anything about wanting to come to appease you people either. It's just not the right time, period.

[[SJJ]]

Screw Vince. I truly hope we don't decide to retire his jersey. Demar and Lowry should be the first Raptors to get their jerseys retired.

[slimdiamante]

Team is completely different than the last few years. I've already pointed out the differences in this thread. We'll just have to wait and see.

You Vince fanboys just want to hold onto the notion that the Vince era was the best in franchise history. Despite all evidence to the contrary -- including playoff success! Your hero when you were 8, just has to be the bestest ever!

I get it, it's like growing up and finding out your dad wasn't this superman you thought he was. Just way more sad...

As a kid, grew up watching ball since the early 90s, Pistons bad boy era, Jordan 6 rings, Rockets, etc. I would say that Vince ain't in my top 5 of best players I've ever seen in my life, but I have to give him respect for being critical in expanding basketball culture in Canada in the early 2ks and also putting raps on the map.

I'm just a realist and accepted the fact that the raptors are a novelty team and are only around to generate revenue and not win championships. I felt this way ever since BC drafted Bustnani.

None of that has anything to do with anything.

I'm not here saying Vince wasn't a key figure in expanding basketball in Canada. He was obviously much more marketable than the current team. But that doesn't mean the Raptors teams he was on were better than the current Raptors. All evidence points to that not being true -- regular season success, playoff success, sustained success, etc. I'm more or less talking about those Raptors teams, not Vince himself. Those teams just weren't that good.

However, as I said before, while Vince was great, he was nowhere near the level of someone like LeBron. 2000-2001 Raptors won 47 games. Replace Vince with prime LeBron, they win 60.

Lebron was never in the conversation. Of course he's better than Vince that's a no brainer. I already stated that Vince ain't in my top 5.

Put Demar in those teams. I don't think he has the skillset or the explosive talent to take that team over the top. It was much more physical back then. Don't think he has the mental strength to overcome that.

[HighUpNorth]

Also the East wasn't a joke back then...you have to take that into consideration.

This is you outing yourself as someone who was not watching basketball in those days.

The East was far worse then. The Pacers went to the Finals in 2000 and zero time All-Star Jalen Rose was their leading scorer.

Our current team would beat every Eastern Conference winner from 1999-2003. There was no team in that conference that was even close to the level that the Cavs have been at the last 4 seasons.

One of the biggest stains on Carter's career is that he had no success in the playoffs against such bad competition. Even when he went to the Nets and teamed up with two other All-Stars he still couldn't get past the second round.

Yup. Not surprising.

Was at the first Raptor game in NOV 95 vs the Nets....were you even born?

[HighUpNorth]

This is you outing yourself as someone who was not watching basketball in those days.

The East was far worse then. The Pacers went to the Finals in 2000 and zero time All-Star Jalen Rose was their leading scorer.

Our current team would beat every Eastern Conference winner from 1999-2003. There was no team in that conference that was even close to the level that the Cavs have been at the last 4 seasons.

One of the biggest stains on Carter's career is that he had no success in the playoffs against such bad competition. Even when he went to the Nets and teamed up with two other All-Stars he still couldn't get past the second round.

Um no. You have hall of famers in those teams. I'll take the Knicks (Sprewell, Houston), 76ers with the Answer, and J Kidd's Nets teams over the current raptors teams. Even the Bucks back then were a good team with Big Dog, Ray Ray and Sam I am. Those teams were mentally tough and performed well in the playoffs.

All those teams were garbage with the exception of the one hit wonder Bucks. They should have made the Finals in 01 if not for some shady officiating.

We'd still beat them though. The Cavs that beat us the last 2 years would have swept all those teams. The East was anemic in those days. There's a reason the West won every title from 99-03.

Without Jordan; the West was better throughout the 90's too. I'll take those Blazers/Sonics/Jazz/Rockets/Spurs squads over the Pacers/Knicks. Hands down. This trend of the West being better is hardly new.

Current Raptosr would beat NONE of those teams in 7...what a joke LOL

Homers all over the place...the East was FAR better than this years East teams...

[Natural11]

They will sign him to a 1 day contract at some point so that Vince can retire as a Raptor, the fans can party while remembering the good times, and Vince can ease his guilt for quitting on the team and its fans.