How should JV defend the pick n roll?

[Patman]

The key is to mix up our coverages. Theoretically, yes, you want to give up the mid-range pull-up over all the other options. But if Wall knows that's what he's getting ALL THE TIME, he's shooting without hesitation and getting into a rhythm. Make him think.

[bakafool]

It's not JV who'd the problem, it's our perimeter players not being able to get over or under the screen.

[Hero]

Plus Minus isn't a good stat on its own for a 1 game sample. It doesn't consider who else was on the floor and who the opponent had on the floor.

Pretty sure Kevin Pelton said that you need a season's data before it really means anything. So to see people saying JV isn't the problem because he had a good +/- is disappointing.

[Lukeem]

Plus Minus isn't a good stat on its own for a 1 game sample. It doesn't consider who else was on the floor and who the opponent had on the floor.

Pretty sure Kevin Pelton said that you need a season's data before it really means anything. So to see people saying JV isn't the problem because he had a good +/- is disappointing.

+/- is one indicator

another is common sense

jv was good yesterday, protecting rim forcing players to come off screens and hit long mid range while preventing pick n roll when the man getting screened recovered


problem was man getting screened got hung up a lot.... some say bad defense or laziness but i think its more the refs refusing to call any illegal screens (both ways)

for a league that uses the pick and roll so heavily itd be nice if they enforced their rules on it

[Hero]

Plus Minus isn't a good stat on its own for a 1 game sample. It doesn't consider who else was on the floor and who the opponent had on the floor.

Pretty sure Kevin Pelton said that you need a season's data before it really means anything. So to see people saying JV isn't the problem because he had a good +/- is disappointing.

+/- is one indicator

another is common sense

jv was good yesterday, protecting rim forcing players to come off screens and hit long mid range while preventing pick n roll when the man getting screened recovered


problem was man getting screened got hung up a lot.... some say bad defense or laziness but i think its more the refs refusing to call any illegal screens (both ways)

for a league that uses the pick and roll so heavily itd be nice if they enforced their rules on it

If you're going by a one game sample then NBA.com has much more useful stats like how JV defended as the primary defender etc. I haven't had a chance to look at yet but we shouldn't misuse plus minus.

[souljah006]

The Play:

We need to have OG guarding John Wall. When Gortat sets the screen, rather than trying to fight through and getting stuck on the screen, OG needs to switch to Gortat just long enough to disrupt the initial action.

The moment Wall gets the screen from Gortat, JV needs to hedge to force Wall to make a decision rather than pulling up for an open J. Wall at this point has 2 options. One, he steps back and takes a longer jump shot (which is exactly what we would want) or two, he attacks The basket.

If Wall decides to attack the basket, JV should quickly focus on taking over the disrupted Gortat and have OG switch to help Wall.

Everyone else stays home on the shooter.

Wall is good enough to beat this play a few times in a game. But if you stay committed and focused on this process, you will make Wall work harder for this play and which will potentially create more turnovers or forced plays.

[Alfred]

hide JV on morris and let ibaka double guard the roller and shooter.

That wouldn't work, as they would just start using Morris in the pick and roll. You want JV guarding Gortat so there isn't a mismatch in any ISO situations.

[Alfred]

The key is to mix up our coverages. Theoretically, yes, you want to give up the mid-range pull-up over all the other options. But if Wall knows that's what he's getting ALL THE TIME, he's shooting without hesitation and getting into a rhythm. Make him think.

Yeah, this is basically it. They need to throw some hard hedges in there occasionally to disrupt his momentum.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Plus Minus isn't a good stat on its own for a 1 game sample. It doesn't consider who else was on the floor and who the opponent had on the floor.

Pretty sure Kevin Pelton said that you need a season's data before it really means anything. So to see people saying JV isn't the problem because he had a good +/- is disappointing.

+/- is one indicator

another is common sense

jv was good yesterday, protecting rim forcing players to come off screens and hit long mid range while preventing pick n roll when the man getting screened recovered


problem was man getting screened got hung up a lot.... some say bad defense or laziness but i think its more the refs refusing to call any illegal screens (both ways)

for a league that uses the pick and roll so heavily itd be nice if they enforced their rules on it

If you're going by a one game sample then NBA.com has much more useful stats like how JV defended as the primary defender etc. I haven't had a chance to look at yet but we shouldn't misuse plus minus.

Wiz shot 8/10 with a shooting foul they missed vs him.

[AK47MVP]

Something has to change here for game 4. He’s getting absolutely torched and they’re running the same play every damn time.

Yet he was the only player on the team without negative +/-? I think problem is not JV.

[LastNameEver]

Gortat shouldn't need special attention on the PnR. Hes old and frail.

Its crazy that this needs addressing even, shame on JV.

try to have OG always guard Wall.
Lowry is not going to get it done.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Its probably worth pointing out while OG has been good against both Wall/Beal, he was torched by Wall last night.

15 possessions against (thats team possessions not individual), Wall shot 5/7 and had 4 ASTs.

Id still like Wall on OG more, but I can understand the coaching staffs reticence.

[kj_]

I don’t think the issue is JV. If he steps up, layups and lobs are going to be opened up for the Wiz. Wall’s man (OG, Delon or Lowry) need to fight or get under the screen faster so they are contesting the midrange better. This is hard for Lowry because he doesn’t have the length. One of the reasons I feel Lowry should not be guarding Wall ever. The PnR strategy has to be contested mid range over lobs, layups or the worse or all, 3’s when the help rotates to the rim.

The more troubling plays for me last night were when the Wizards cleared out and attacked when Lowry was guarding Wall. Wall blew by him easily every time and got to the rim for finishes or dump offs when the help arrived. Imo, Lowry needs to guard Beal and get into him to take away his space to shoot and never guard Wall. If I’m the Wizards I’m attacking Lowry with Wall every chance I get. Actually, I’m attacking Lowry with Beal as well, just from a Raps perspective Lowry has a fighting chance vs Beal so I go with that.

Rebounding was a problem last night too. Seemed the Wiz got a ton of Offensive boards in that first quarter that kept them in that game when the raps had it somewhat going early.


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[Buff]

When JV helps on (say) Wall, Wall's man HAVE to take the Gortat pass away. It is as simple as that... all last night Lowry would get beaten and still try to block Wall or something... let Wall to score over JV and take away the Gortat pass... simple.

This, btw, was evidenced when JV got benched and Gortat kept hammering us.

[kj_]

Its probably worth pointing out while OG has been good against both Wall/Beal, he was torched by Wall last night.

15 possessions against (thats team possessions not individual), Wall shot 5/7 and had 4 ASTs.

Id still like Wall on OG more, but I can understand the coaching staffs reticence.

From what I remember, most of those were midrange shots. Some contested and some not. He shot the ball well from the elbow and foul line. Got to live with those. Maybe try getting him out a bit farther helps.


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[Whole Truth]

I don’t think the issue is JV. If he steps up, layups and lobs are going to be opened up for the Wiz. Wall’s man (OG, Delon or Lowry) need to fight or get under the screen faster so they are contesting the midrange better. This is hard for Lowry because he doesn’t have the length. One of the reasons I feel Lowry should not be guarding Wall ever. The PnR strategy has to be contested mid range over lobs, layups or the worse or all, 3’s when the help rotates to the rim.

The more troubling plays for me last night were when the Wizards cleared out and attacked when Lowry was guarding Wall. Wall blew by him easily every time and got to the rim for finishes or dump offs when the help arrived. Imo, Lowry needs to guard Beal and get into him to take away his space to shoot and never guard Wall. If I’m the Wizards I’m attacking Lowry with Wall every chance I get. Actually, I’m attacking Lowry with Beal as well, just from a Raps perspective Lowry has a fighting chance vs Beal so I go with that.

Rebounding was a problem last night too. Seemed the Wiz got a ton of Offensive boards in that first quarter that kept them in that game when the raps had it somewhat going early.


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Gortat was allowed to body for position in this one... Wizards got some home cooking like when Beal tripped & slid from foul line to rim without a travelling violation, which led to a Oubre dunk, it was a pretty obvious travelling call let go. Raptors at that point were up 9 which could have been stretched to 12, with the right call. That blown call was directly followed by a Poeltl moving screen which I've pointed out several times now in games where officials are attempting to swing momentum they tag the team with a moving screen, illegal or not as they can make this call extremely subjective... I'd like someone to tell me Wizards weren't moving on most of their screens which freed up Wall more than in games 1 & 2, yet they had no violations called...

This small 2 possession sequence involving 2 bad calls allowed Washingotn to go from down 9, potentially 12 to down 1 in 3 possessions, which inevitably swung momentum. Wizards caught fire & didn't look back... with the occasional gift like when Derozan was fouled for an entire possession without a call though he eventually made the bucket. The announcers were like, we've seen fouls for a lot less.... lol. Yeah, no @&%

[VanWest82]

When JV helps on (say) Wall, Wall's man HAVE to take the Gortat pass away. It is as simple as that... all last night Lowry would get beaten and still try to block Wall or something... let Wall to score over JV and take away the Gortat pass... simple.

This, btw, was evidenced when JV got benched and Gortat kept hammering us.

I agree with this though I think Wall/Gortat PnR kept hammering us because Poeltl was even less effective than JV navigating coverage, not because JV was good and the guards were bad.

There's no easy answer here. You're right that when the big picks up the guard, the little needs to cut off / box out the offensive big from diving down the lane for an easy two. Lowry missed that assignment on more than one occasion last night. But JV also got lost in no man's land on multiple occasions as well. Communication needs to be better, and JV needs to make better, quicker decisions in addition to showing more energy by starting the coverage a little higher up on the court. Jak needs to be nailed to the bench; wrong series for him unfortunately. Mahimni did this to him in the RS as well.

I still think we need to switch Lowry and OG so that OG is on Wall more. Wall torched both of them last night, but OG at least has the length to recover and bother Wall's initial shot from behind if he doesn't quite get there.

[NeoDragonKnight]

I maybe reading into this too much but I think the coaching staff is having JV play off the pink and roll on purpose, they would rather give up the contested mid range jumper then an easy layup or corner 3 when the help comes. The problem is the other Raptor that is defending the pick and roll has to fight through the screen harder to actually contest that mid range jumper.

[Whole Truth]

Jonas is an issue but lets be real the main problem of the Wizards p'n'r is Walls containment, he got to his spots easily & all bigs not just Jonas struggled as a result. This performance was eerily similar to Calderon getting everything he wanted.

If Casey needs to slow this down, IMO put Delon & OG on Beal/Wall with Derozan at SF, Ibaka PF & or Poeltl or JV at centre depending on how capable Delon & OG are at pressuring their guard play.

That would be better ball pressure, more length to contest & both could easily maintain the same pressure length advantage in switches.

Reason I mentioned Jonas in this lineup is to balance that ball pressure with an offensive option, If the ball pressure is not enough then Poeltl would be the defensive option & I think that lineup would do the trick at least defensively.

Lowry simply doesn't do a good enough job of taking Wall out of his comfort zone.

[OGLife]

It has nothing to do with who the starter is at the 5. JV is stuck with making a decision of stepping up to the shooter or staying back for the guy setting up the pick. I feel like JV needs to step up at times and challenge the shooter. Was is getting easy space and their shots are going in.

This all pick and roll thing won’t factor in if Beal wasn’t hot from 3.