DD+ Bench Lineup

RaptorHusky · Post #21 » by **RaptorHusky** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:12 pm

Youp, imagine, 1,5 yrs ago, someone told you that Raps-Wiz series is hanging on undrafted undersized guy from Wichita State, many of us would laugh to death. Now, it's serious. Bench with and without FVV are very different animals. Team effort is a big thing but if you take one brick out of the wall, then your wall may break apart. So, next task for coaching staff is to build a wall, where bricks are replaceable... and for less than 20M per, please...

vini_vidi_vici · Post #22 » by **vini_vidi_vici** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:13 pm

Pretty crazy how much a back up PG is worth in this series. The irony is on the other side they have completely gone away from Frazier, and used Satiransky as combo G, for Lawson of all ppl (who has been great which is weird).

Johnny Bball · Post #23 » by **Johnny Bball** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:16 pm

xavis wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:Poeltl has been bad for over a month and he's been distinctly awful so far. We got one win because Bebe came in and John Wall was playing like a moron. Wall adjusted and Bebe is back to being a 3rd string C. Anyway, the bench just needs to have one good game.

Some people here were saying he has DPOY potential

Ahhh, the even informative and passive aggressive “some people”.

soloxylo · Post #24 » by **soloxylo** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:21 pm

I’ve always hated seeing the DD x Bench Lineup during the season, and I even hate seeing it more now. The strength of the bench has always been it’s cohesiveness as a unit on both ends of the floor. For that unit to be effective there can’t be a single weak link to disrupt the synergy. Derozan with that lineup is the weak link, as his style of play at times is the antithesis of what comprises the true effectiveness of that unit.

As the lone starter, he often calls his number far more - resulting in a decrease in ball movement and AST percentages, numbers. As a result, the rest of the unit often defers to much to him on the offensive end; which further cripples ball movement and decision making. Defensively, his inability to stick with his man on/off ball triggers an increase in help rotations that compromises the defense. The eye test proves it doesn’t work, and the advanced statistics proves it doesn’t either. So, I’m still baffled as to why we continually roll with it.

vini_vidi_vici · Post #25 » by **vini_vidi_vici** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:21 pm

Bench was 1st with a +8.3 NET, now they are dead last with a -20.4 NET. Its probably a combination of things, no FVV/small sample/etc.. but whatever it is, this is part of having a young bench that needs development. Its funny going into the POs everyone was complaining DC wouldnt play the bench enough, now some of those same ppl want less bench.

vini_vidi_vici · Post #26 » by **vini_vidi_vici** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:30 pm

The problem isnt so much DD + Bench, the problem is Delon is more the combo G who replaces DD.

DD with bench -Delon, they are a +11.5 in 101 mins out there. With Delon in FVV out they are a -30.6 NET in 47 mins out there. We are just trying to kill 14 mins over 3 games with an inferior lineup and unfortunately its not neutral its been bad.

Harold_and_Kumar · Post #27 » by **Harold_and_Kumar** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:50 pm

SSS notwithstanding, those are pretty damning.

I think I would play Lowry closer to 40 minutes to attempt to bridge the gap

VanWest82 · Post #28 » by **VanWest82** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:56 pm

The DD + bench line up has been used out of necessity, nothing else. We can talk about how better to shuffle Lowry and Derozan's minutes but without a true back up point guard we're going to have problems. Splitting up Lowry and DD so one of them is always on the court feels like the lesser of a lot of evils. Brown should probably play more until FVV comes back.

Also, I'm going out on a limb and predicting our bench would still be having problems if FVV was healthy. They're having trouble scoring and Fred would certainly help with that but the problems run deeper. Casey needs to seriously consider benching Jak for the series. As bad as JV has been defensively in two of the three games, somehow Poeltl has been worse. He can't handle the athleticism and physicality of the Wizards. I would give Bebe another shot in game 4, and if that doesn't work pull Ibaka early and go small with him at the 5 in the second unit. OG might have to play more 4. Siakam needs to step up.

Right now our biggest problem is the Wizards are not only more athletic, but also tougher. We need guys who aren't afraid because make no mistake we can still lose this series even with the Wizards taking an insane amount of mid rangers if we don't match their heart and toughness. In game 3 we failed miserably with that.

Whole Truth · Post #29 » by **Whole Truth** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:06 pm

FVV is the only true playmaking guard on roster.

Uncle Dennis · Post #30 » by **Uncle Dennis** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:55 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
xavis wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:Poeltl has been bad for over a month and he's been distinctly awful so far. We got one win because Bebe came in and John Wall was playing like a moron. Wall adjusted and Bebe is back to being a 3rd string C. Anyway, the bench just needs to have one good game.

Some people here were saying he has DPOY potential

Ahhh, the even informative and passive aggressive “some people”.

Still ridiculous that he is even mentioned in that category

Basketball_Jones · Post #31 » by **Basketball_Jones** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:07 pm

Chandan wrote:agreed. its not like the lineup is great on offense either. he's a ball stopper and doesn't cut or move well without the ball.

Demar has been leading one of the leagues deadliest offenses the past 5 seasons. I think this lineup will be fine.

nabbs · Post #32 » by **nabbs** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:12 pm

Until we see Fred at shoot around putting up shots, I won't begin to think that he is close to returning. Run Lowry with the bench lineup.

kj_ · Post #33 » by **kj_** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:53 pm

Agree that FVV not playing is the demise of the second unit advantage. I see it more as Fred consistently beats his man off the dribble resulting in layups or kick outs to open shooters. This penetration is the reason the ball movement can happen. Delon is great at it when guys are closing out on him or rotating over. He’s not great at simply beating his guy (he’s good not great). Compound that with DD trying to get into the lane only to have to fling it back out for a reset with no advantage created. The offence is forced to reset later in the clock which is never a good thing.

Fred needs to return for the second unit to thrive. Otherwise the starters are going to have to win this series.

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Smitson · Post #34 » by **Smitson** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:03 pm

The lineup has been a disaster, but the bench has been a disaster period without FVV.

With FVV instead of Delon, the lineup would be fine. Pascal and Poetl are really struggling.

Truthrising · Post #35 » by **Truthrising** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:08 pm

Just don’t run DD+Bench period. It’s been a disaster every time I see him out there with the bench. He just kills the ball movement of the bench that we were used to seeing during the regular season. I don’t know how Casey doesn’t see this.

At least try Lowry+bench, I think he’s more similar to FVV as compared to DD.

RaptorHusky · Post #36 » by **RaptorHusky** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:27 pm

Smitson wrote:The lineup has been a disaster, but the bench has been a disaster period without FVV.

With FVV instead of Delon, the lineup would be fine. Pascal and Poetl are really struggling.

EDIT: along with Delon. Bench is almost nothing if those two are not on the court together

MEDIC · Post #37 » by **MEDIC** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:56 pm

I have to agree with this. The thing that works for the bench is their energy, speed down the floor & ball movement.

Derozan definitely doesn't fit the mold. We need FVV back. He's the engine for this group.

johanliebert · Post #38 » by **johanliebert** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:29 pm

i agree.

wasnt lowry + the bench the past few years been a top 10 lineup?

why doesnt casey just extend his minutes and bring back demar with some starters? oh well glad i dont coach and make those decisions

lobosloboslobos · Post #39 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:21 pm

I always find it weird when so many of us see that the demar+bench lineup has been a problem all year, reducing the unit's impact at both ends and yet somehow this obvious fact eludes our coach. i never understand when this happens. it'll probably get changed eventually and then the media will talk about the 'smart adjustment' and the rest of us will be like, uh, yeah, why didn't this happen months (or in some cases years) ago?

Kabookalu · Post #40 » by **Kabookalu** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:27 pm

kj_ wrote:Agree that FVV not playing is the demise of the second unit advantage. I see it more as Fred consistently beats his man off the dribble resulting in layups or kick outs to open shooters. This penetration is the reason the ball movement can happen. Delon is great at it when guys are closing out on him or rotating over. He’s not great at simply beating his guy (he’s good not great). Compound that with DD trying to get into the lane only to have to fling it back out for a reset with no advantage created. The offence is forced to reset later in the clock which is never a good thing.

Fred needs to return for the second unit to thrive. Otherwise the starters are going to have to win this series.

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He's able to initiate action by keeping his man on his hip while progressing towards the basket off the pick and roll. It constantly puts pressure on the defense for the entire duration he's doing this, and his IQ is so high that he's able to assess all the moving parts while this is all happening and facilitate the right plays.

Wright only really attacks when he has an open lane. Fred is seriously an amazing talent.