Nurse is better on defense than we think

[StopitLeo]

Nobody reads the Raptors subreddit but I came across something interesting that Chris Finch said.

Who is Chris Finch? He is a current assistant coach with the Pelicans, was previously the associated head coach of the Nuggets (whatever that means), and spent 5 years as an assistant with the Rockets after winning a D-League championship. Of note is that he was the head coach of the British Olympic Team is 2012, where Nick Nurse served as an assistant.

On Blake Murphys Raptors Reasonablists Podcast he recently spoke with Eric Koreen who relayed something that he was told by Chris Finch (https://soundcloud.com/raptorsreasonablists/s02e31-hello-nurse#t=9:24). During their time in Europe, Finch actually saw Nurse as a better defensive mind than offensive mind.

So, although Nurse has a reputation as being an offensive mastermind (clearly with what he achieved last year), he also has defensive prowess. That's not to say he won't bring in an assistant to play a defensive coordinator role, but it does mean that he isn't just going to blindly entrust someone else to manage how the team plays defense because he doesn't know anything.

Does that make anyone else feel a bit better?

Credit to u/ShaolinCheesecake who posted this on reddit. There is other interesting information discussed on the podcast. Worth a listen, at least at 1.5x speed.

[YogurtProducer]

I feel like if you’re a good offensive coach and know where you want to get your shots, you should know what defensive philosophies will blow up your offence and in turn, employ those to force the opposition into worse shots.

Our defensive issues IMO were more lack of personnel (Ibaka, JV, Demar) rather than coaching.

[Lukeem]

It will be interesting to see... however nothing system wise makes any difference if every player isn't bought in and held accountable on both ends (especially "stars")

That is what ends up defining most coaches success, pretty much every coach at this level is pretty damn smart on both ends. But does not make any difference the game is not played on paper and whiteboards. Phil Jackson is considered by some the greatest coach of all time (definitely not me, although I do respect his coaching ability) he was never that special on the Xs and Os, the whole triangle thing was Tex Winter, but Phil was the Zen Master because he got the most out of his stars and the rest trickled down the roster.

[Duffman100]

I feel like if you’re a good offensive coach and know where you want to get your shots, you should know what defensive philosophies will blow up your offence and in turn, employ those to force the opposition into worse shots.

Our defensive issues IMO were more lack of personnel (Ibaka, JV, Demar) rather than coaching.

At this point, I'm feeling it's almost unfair to group JV with those two. He actually had a good year on both sides of the ball.

Demar is lazy AF on defense and Ibaka is just a moron.

[StopitLeo]

I feel like if you’re a good offensive coach and know where you want to get your shots, you should know what defensive philosophies will blow up your offence and in turn, employ those to force the opposition into worse shots.

Our defensive issues IMO were more lack of personnel (Ibaka, JV, Demar) rather than coaching.

I agree. I think that some of the personnel issues could have been mitigated with better lineups though. DeMar needs to be surrounded by 4 good defenders who can switch, help, and both hedge and recover. Playing him with Ibaka and JV is not ideal not only on defense but on offense since they need the ball to initiate offense more than other guys.

I'd like to see more lineups with DeMar and guys like Lowry, Delon, Pascal, OG, and even Poeltl. You have versatile defenders and guys who are opportunistic scorers - off cuts, open shots, put backs, etc... DeMar showed last year that he can be a better playmaker. I'd much rather see him hitting OG for open 3s or making inside passes to guys without butter on their hands.

[Basketball_Jones]

I don't get why we keep trying to retool the offense every offseason. It's already one of the best in the NBA 5 years running. That's unheard of.

[lolwut]

I feel like if you’re a good offensive coach and know where you want to get your shots, you should know what defensive philosophies will blow up your offence and in turn, employ those to force the opposition into worse shots.

Our defensive issues IMO were more lack of personnel (Ibaka, JV, Demar) rather than coaching.

At this point, I'm feeling it's almost unfair to group JV with those two. He actually had a good year on both sides of the ball.

Demar is lazy AF on defense and Ibaka is just a moron.

Agreed. JV has his limitations, but he gives you effort at least. He's also the only one that actually tries to grab defensive rebounds.

[slothrop8]

I feel like if you’re a good offensive coach and know where you want to get your shots, you should know what defensive philosophies will blow up your offence and in turn, employ those to force the opposition into worse shots.

Our defensive issues IMO were more lack of personnel (Ibaka, JV, Demar) rather than coaching.

At this point, I'm feeling it's almost unfair to group JV with those two. He actually had a good year on both sides of the ball.

Demar is lazy AF on defense and Ibaka is just a moron.

Let's not get carried away here - I love the guy, but JV is and was still bad defensively. He has poor defensive instincts and just isn't mobile or quick enough. We do everything we can to cherry pick spots where we won't get burned too bad defensively - but he still hurts us out there. He played out of his mind defensively against Washington which was awesome - and he'd no doubt look better if he's separated from playing with DeMar so much - but he's a bad defensive player - after DeMar, the 2nd worst defensive player on the roster. He generally gives effort, he's just not good on that end.

[Johnny Bball]

I feel like if you’re a good offensive coach and know where you want to get your shots, you should know what defensive philosophies will blow up your offence and in turn, employ those to force the opposition into worse shots.

Our defensive issues IMO were more lack of personnel (Ibaka, JV, Demar) rather than coaching.

At this point, I'm feeling it's almost unfair to group JV with those two. He actually had a good year on both sides of the ball.

Demar is lazy AF on defense and Ibaka is just a moron.

Agreed. JV has his limitations, but he gives you effort at least. He's also the only one that actually tries to grab defensive rebounds.

You watch 5 minutes of JV vs Wizards dominant 4th quarter defense in Game 5 and see what he can do and then watch the rest of the season, I think its more than fair to question it.

[StopitLeo]

I don't get why we keep trying to retool the offense every offseason. It's already one of the best in the NBA 5 years running. That's unheard of.

Until this past season the offense fell off a cliff in the playoffs. Now that we have something that can work in the regular season and playoffs. It doesn't have to be retooled but now that Nurse has full control he can implement it fully.

[Duffman100]

I feel like if you’re a good offensive coach and know where you want to get your shots, you should know what defensive philosophies will blow up your offence and in turn, employ those to force the opposition into worse shots.

Our defensive issues IMO were more lack of personnel (Ibaka, JV, Demar) rather than coaching.

At this point, I'm feeling it's almost unfair to group JV with those two. He actually had a good year on both sides of the ball.

Demar is lazy AF on defense and Ibaka is just a moron.

Let's not get carried away here - I love the guy, but JV is and was still bad defensively. He has poor defensive instincts and just isn't mobile or quick enough. We do everything we can to cherry pick spots where we won't get burned too bad defensively - but he still hurts us out there. He played out of his mind defensively against Washington which was awesome - and he'd no doubt look better if he's separated from playing with DeMar so much - but he's a bad defensive player - after DeMar, the 2nd worst defensive player on the roster. He generally gives effort, he's just not good on that end.

I don't think saying JV had a good year on both sides of the ball is me getting carried away. It's actually just true.

[slothrop8]

I don't think saying JV had a good year on both sides of the ball is me getting carried away. It's actually just true.

Good by his standards - or objectively good relative to other NBA centres?

[Duffman100]

I don't think saying JV had a good year on both sides of the ball is me getting carried away. It's actually just true.

Good by his standards - or objectively good relative to other NBA centres?

Good as in he had a positive impact on both sides of the ball. Good as in I think letting go of our only good rebounder would be a mistake.

[slothrop8]

I don't think saying JV had a good year on both sides of the ball is me getting carried away. It's actually just true.

Good by his standards - or objectively good relative to other NBA centres?

Good as in he had a positive impact on both sides of the ball. Good as in I think letting go of our only good rebounder would be a mistake.

I totally agree we'd miss his rebounding badly and it would be a mistake to let it go without a replacement. I don't necessarily agree he was a positive impact defender overall - but as a big JV supporter I will take your assessment and run!

[Senbonzakura]

We're never going to be good defensively at the highest level with this personnel. It'll be fine in the regular season where you can pad the hell out of your defensive numbers against bad teams, and the best don't bring it every night, but in the playoffs where teams can isolate you, we'll get burned.

People can keep pretending and lying to themselves but the reality is we have 3 defensive liabilities in the starting unit. DeRozan can't defend, Ibaka is a liability at the 4 because he's not mobile and he gets pulled away from the basket where his best attribute (shot blocking/rim protection) is meaningless, JV tries hard but simply lacks the physical attributes to even be average on defense. Things might even get worse as Lowry ages, because he's not long and not particularly athletic, so that could add a FOURTH liability on defense to the starting 5.

But yeah keep pretending that we'll be able to play elite D in the playoffs with that group.

[RaptorsNorth]

Man none of that matter when you have players that are bad defenders smh do you really think Nurse is going make demar's a better defender smh the guy is 28 years old and he has never been a good defender, you think he's going be a better defender at a older age smh do you really think serge is going to be a better rebounder at his age ? Get real man. This fan base so delusional man. You guys will never learn from the past. It's like watching the same movie over and over and expecting the plot to change from what you've seen in the past smh it's the same movie (players) smh..

[Vorticity]

also worth noting:

One league source suggested that on a bench occupied by the defence-first Casey and defensive co-ordinator Rex Kalamian, Nurse’s offence-forward suggestions were never fully heard nor understood. So that’s the argument for making the change. Nurse, the line of thinking goes, couldn’t be the innovator he’s capable of being with an old-school head coach at the wheel

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2018/06/12/will-nick-nurse-be-just-what-the-raptors-ordered.html

[Basketball_Jones]

I don't get why we keep trying to retool the offense every offseason. It's already one of the best in the NBA 5 years running. That's unheard of.

Until this past season the offense fell off a cliff in the playoffs. Now that we have something that can work in the regular season and playoffs. It doesn't have to be retooled but now that Nurse has full control he can implement it fully.

Defense is what really needs to be reworked imo. Demar needs a bigger role, he's a lockdown defender let him guard Lebron/Durant. Start Van Vleet as well, let him and Lowry stop all dribble penetration from opposing guards. Maybe start OG at the 4, Ibaka at the 5. Hoooo man I'm getting goosebumps!

[canada_dry]

Get the pieces that would allow us to play a more modern switching type of defense

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[Hansari]

I don't get why we keep trying to retool the offense every offseason. It's already one of the best in the NBA 5 years running. That's unheard of.

Until this past season the offense fell off a cliff in the playoffs. Now that we have something that can work in the regular season and playoffs. It doesn't have to be retooled but now that Nurse has full control he can implement it fully.

Defense is what really needs to be reworked imo. Demar needs a bigger role, he's a lockdown defender let him guard Lebron/Durant . Start Van Vleet as well, let him and Lowry stop all dribble penetration from opposing guards. Maybe start OG at the 4, Ibaka at the 5. Hoooo man I'm getting goosebumps!

In what world is DeMar DeRozan a lockdown defender? Have we been watching the same teams the past 9 years?