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Kyle Lowry very available

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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#221 » by Whole Truth » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:51 pm

lebron stopper wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:- 2 veterans that keep Lebron at home. ((Walker/Derozan), if Lebron doesn't stay, Cavs have Love, Derozan, Walker).
- Charlotte and Memphis involved, as well as possibly Raptors. (Both Charlotte & Memphis are looking to shed contracts in trade).
- 4th and 8th pick and several veterans with Cedi in the mix. #nba⁠ ⁠ trade rumors. (Memphis want to trade down)

Raptors trade (Derozan) for (Parsons, #4)

Memphis trade (Parsons, #4) for (Batum, #8)

Cavs trade (Smith, Clarkson, Cedi, #8, future 1st) for (Derozan, Walker)

Charlotte trade (Walker, Batum) for (Smith, Clarkson, Cedi, future 1st)


1. That trade doesn't work salary wise for Cleveland, they would have to cut another $12 million in that deal. So I think George Hill would go instead of Cedi Osman to match salaries.

2. But that doesn't answer this question: Why would Memphis trade a 2 year albatross and the 4th pick for a 3 year albatross and the 8th pick?

3. Also, why would Charlotte trade away Kemba Walker without getting a guaranteed lottery pick in return? The future 1st from Cleveland on top of all those garbage contracts doesn't seem enough for them...

The main idea makes sense, but when you get into the specifics, there's parts here and there to question if it will truly work.


I have variations to the deal but the main purpose was to put out the potential frame work & reasoning. To many teams & moving parts for me to guess them all.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#222 » by lebron stopper » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:53 pm

Whole Truth wrote:As some have pointed out Memphis might not prefer Derozan. Raptors trade him to the Cavs for the 8th + additional value so they can convey the 8th pick where Memphis move down 4 slots to move Parsons for something serviceable.

With both Charlotte & Memphis wanting to dump salary in trade using their desired assets. Batum is an upgrade to Parsons as he's serviceable, Charlotte get out from under Batum's contract with serviceable pieces as Raptors end up with Parsons dead weight.

Cavs trade multiple assets for 2 vets to entice Lebron to stay in Walker & Derozan. Lebron leaves they still have a team that can compete with Love, Derozan, Walker.


This still doesn't answer:

- Why would Memphis get a lower pick and a longer albatross contract?
- Why would Charlotte get so little in return for Kemba Walker?


So I think that trade would look a lot different in structure in order to answer these questions:

TOR gets:
- From MEM: Craptacular, 4th pick

CHA gets:
- From CLE: Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, future CLE 1st round pick
- From TOR: Wright :(

CLE gets:
- From TOR: DeRozan
- From CHA: Walker

MEM gets:
- From CLE: George Hill's expiring, 8th pick
- From CHA: one of Lamb or Kaminsky (both are expiring and salary filler)


That solves both of those questions:

- Memphis would get more productive players on expiring contracts, on top of going from 4th to 8th
- Charlotte would get the young players they want in return for Kemba Walker


I'm not sure this deal ever happens because it's so unlikely for four-team trades to occur, especially on draft night (has a four-team trade ever occurred on draft night?), but if it does happen somehow, I think it would look a lot more like that. Ain't nobody trying to take on Nicolas Kaboom lmao!


edit: Just saw the post above. I see.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#223 » by Whole Truth » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:00 pm

lebron stopper wrote:
- Why would Memphis get a lower pick and a longer albatross contract?
- Why would Charlotte get so little in return for Kemba Walker?


I figured Batum had more worth than Parsons, it doesn't have to be Batum as Charlotte has several contracts they would like to attach to Walker in trade. Both Charlotte & Memphis are moving 20m in salaries with Raptors ending up with Parsons.

lebron stopper wrote: Ain't nobody trying to take on Nicolas Kaboom lmao!


Nobody really want's Parsons either

The idea is that some of the contracts that Charlotte would like to move with Walker would go to Memphis who should be more serviceable than Parsons. With Raptors taking on the craptacular, to net the 4th.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#224 » by mrdressup » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:18 pm

I thought he went right to an instagram model after he split with his wife. The guy's a player.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#225 » by CoachJReturns » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:57 am

So just like in free agency last year, nobody but Toronto wanted Kyle tonight. Guess everyone's only getting traded as expirings. Oh well, I'll try to sit out this year if it's the same roster minus Fred. I've never not followed every game since inception, but it's probably time.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#226 » by SharoneWright » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:07 am

Kyle Lowry very unwanted
Is anybody here a marine biologist?
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#227 » by XxIronChainzxX » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:17 am

CoachJReturns wrote:So just like in free agency last year, nobody but Toronto wanted Kyle tonight. Guess everyone's only getting traded as expirings. Oh well, I'll try to sit out this year if it's the same roster minus Fred. I've never not followed every game since inception, but it's probably time.


There's no market because the contenders aren't set and in real life a rebuilding team doesn't want to nuke itself into 8th seed hell.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#228 » by VanWest82 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:45 am

Now that Lebron has ruled out everyone but LA and the Cavs, and Spurs seem intent on dragging out the situation with Kawhi, I think the Lowry to Philly deal has more legs now. Their options aren't great if they strike out on PG too, and we appear to be perfect trade partners for one another. I still wonder if they'd be better off signing Marcus Smart to just above MLE (and front loading it so Celtics don't match) but Lowry makes sense for them.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#229 » by omar36 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:40 am

lowry i think is still in play.

lebron committing to philly might sway that to trade for him.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#230 » by TheAlchemist » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:32 am

If Lowry makes it to Cleveland, would we want Sexton,? To me Cleveland screwed up hard. Should of used the draft pick before selecting there random. Now we're limited in trading.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#231 » by XxIronChainzxX » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:17 pm

VanWest82 wrote:Now that Lebron has ruled out everyone but LA and the Cavs, and Spurs seem intent on dragging out the situation with Kawhi, I think the Lowry to Philly deal has more legs now. Their options aren't great if they strike out on PG too, and we appear to be perfect trade partners for one another. I still wonder if they'd be better off signing Marcus Smart to just above MLE (and front loading it so Celtics don't match) but Lowry makes sense for them.


It's still a disaster trade that traps us in 8th seed hell. KL would be a good move for Philly but we do we trade him now?
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#232 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:07 pm

Cavs, Hornets setup for a major blockbuster trade

Needless to say, prior to the draft, Charlotte seemed enamored with both Collin Sexton and Shai Gilegous-Alexander. Well, the Cavaliers drafted Sexton with the No. 8 pick. The Hornets got their desired player with the No. 11 pick, drafting SGA.
Quickly after, the Hornets traded for Bridges, sending away SGA and a few second rounds. Oddly enough, Bridges was drafted No. 12. The Hornets could’ve just drafted Bridges at No. 11 if they wanted him badly enough. Instead, they might get their point guard through the Cavaliers. Maybe.

On top of the Hornets trading for a small forward, the rumored trade scenarios that have featured Charlotte and Cleveland have also generally included Nicolas Batum, Charlotte’s starting small forward who signed a 5-year, $120 million contract and still has four years remaining.
This perfectly set up the Cleveland Cavaliers to deal Sexton, Hill, and Tristan Thompson for Walker and Batum, getting Cleveland their star while clear Charlotte of a long and unneeded contract.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2018/06/22/cleveland-cavaliers-charlotte-hornets-blockbuster-trade/


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Hearing today Cavs ready to make Blockbuster trade for 2 veterans that keep Lebron at home. Charlotte and Memphis involved, as well as possibly Raptors. 4th and 8th pick and several veterans with Cedi in the mix. #nba⁠ ⁠ trade rumors. NBA. Cavs. Lebron . Draft night frenzy.
3:46 AM - Jun 20, 2018



Charlotte trade - (Walker, Batum, #12 Miles) 34m for (Parsons, Thompson, #8 Sexton) 39m

Cavs trade - (Hill, Thompson, Cedi, #8 Sexton) 38.6m for (Derozan, Walker) 39m

Memphis trade - (Parsons, #4) 23m for (Hill, Cedi, #12 Miles) 22.5m

Raptors trade - (Derozan) 28m for (Batum, #4) 22.4m

Memphis who want to contend dump Parsons get a more use full player in Hill & net one of the young wings they were rumored to be trading down for, Miles. Who's a SF that can score & is more refined, NBA ready.

Charlotte net their replacement PG for an expiring Walker, a serviceable PF in Thompson, while removing a year off Batum's contract for Parsons

Cavs net 2 vets to entice Lebron to stay Walker, Derozan, Lebron, Love

Raptors retool with a versatile 19yo big who's skillset is geared to where the league is heading. Use the stretch provision on Batum.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#233 » by Raptorfan2012 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:39 pm

Im still going with Lowry to Minni: Lowry, Ibaka, and Miles for Wiggins, Teague, and Gibson. Works in terms of salary.

Minni gets Lowry to join Butler. Ibaka and Miles (whom Minni was interested in last summer) offer more outside shooting.

Raptors get Wiggins who may or may not be a star, but still very early to tell. He will definitely sell tickets (MLSE loves that). Raptors have been rumored to be interested in Gibson forever.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#234 » by SurgeIblocka » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:49 pm

Raptorfan2012 wrote:Im still going with Lowry to Minni: Lowry, Ibaka, and Miles for Wiggins, Teague, and Gibson. Works in terms of salary.

Minni gets Lowry to join Butler. Ibaka and Miles (whom Minni was interested in last summer) offer more outside shooting.

Raptors get Wiggins who may or may not be a star, but still very early to tell. He will definitely sell tickets (MLSE loves that). Raptors have been rumored to be interested in Gibson forever.


Sure if you want to tank. We have would have no 3pt shooting , teague is a waste and wiggins is not improving his game to paly for his country he couldnt even commit to playing for Canada. I indersand this is all thats out there available but id rather not trade for wiggins
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#235 » by Son Goku 25 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:52 pm

The only one available is Powell.

Masai isn't doing anything- once he does, wake me up.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#236 » by Danny1616 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:57 pm

Raptorfan2012 wrote:Im still going with Lowry to Minni: Lowry, Ibaka, and Miles for Wiggins, Teague, and Gibson. Works in terms of salary.

Minni gets Lowry to join Butler. Ibaka and Miles (whom Minni was interested in last summer) offer more outside shooting.

Raptors get Wiggins who may or may not be a star, but still very early to tell. He will definitely sell tickets (MLSE loves that). Raptors have been rumored to be interested in Gibson forever.


What would that do for us?

Wiggins and Derozan playing together would be awful.

Wiggins is under huge contract with 4 years left and is grossly overpaid.

We would be stuck in a bigger hole with a worse team.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#237 » by Raptorfan2012 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:20 pm

SurgeIblocka wrote:
Raptorfan2012 wrote:Im still going with Lowry to Minni: Lowry, Ibaka, and Miles for Wiggins, Teague, and Gibson. Works in terms of salary.

Minni gets Lowry to join Butler. Ibaka and Miles (whom Minni was interested in last summer) offer more outside shooting.

Raptors get Wiggins who may or may not be a star, but still very early to tell. He will definitely sell tickets (MLSE loves that). Raptors have been rumored to be interested in Gibson forever.


Sure if you want to tank. We have would have no 3pt shooting , teague is a waste and wiggins is not improving his game to paly for his country he couldnt even commit to playing for Canada. I indersand this is all thats out there available but id rather not trade for wiggins


We get Wiggins in hopes of he will turn things around and succeed Demar once his contract is up.

IMO there aren't a lot of trades to be made that will help us in the short run. Many here want trades for the sake of trades, but it looks like we will be riding with this core for at least one more season. Lowry and Ibaka will be much more tradeable once they become expiring contracts.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#238 » by VanWest82 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:34 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Now that Lebron has ruled out everyone but LA and the Cavs, and Spurs seem intent on dragging out the situation with Kawhi, I think the Lowry to Philly deal has more legs now. Their options aren't great if they strike out on PG too, and we appear to be perfect trade partners for one another. I still wonder if they'd be better off signing Marcus Smart to just above MLE (and front loading it so Celtics don't match) but Lowry makes sense for them.


It's still a disaster trade that traps us in 8th seed hell. KL would be a good move for Philly but we do we trade him now?


I think we're going to lose Fred if we don't get off money. MLSE isn't paying 150M payroll expense (tax inc) for a non-contender. Trading guys into cap space is the only way to get off big money without having to match salary, and there are few if any deals like that for us this year that make sense for both parties. But Lowry to Philly does make some sense in theory if we can agree on a return. Our team hit it's peak and needs to get younger. Philly needs a big name FA shooter / secondary creator for next two years before SImmons and Saric extensions kick in.

I know everyone wants to rebuild but you have to do it in steps. It isn't realistic to trade everyone from a 59 win team all at once so you can play the lottery game. We're better off maximizing each asset in order to retain flexibility. Maybe we win. Maybe we find a diamond in the rough and develop him and he's the piece that nets us a top 5 pick or develops into an all star. Maybe it's a package of guys and picks in a trade.

The "treadmill" narrative is way out of whack at this point. It basically means everyone who isn't the Warriors or tanking. How about we just focus on retaining our assets and turning guys into assets? Having a bunch of guys on your team who are all outplaying their contracts is a good thing.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#239 » by XxIronChainzxX » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:39 pm

VanWest82 wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Now that Lebron has ruled out everyone but LA and the Cavs, and Spurs seem intent on dragging out the situation with Kawhi, I think the Lowry to Philly deal has more legs now. Their options aren't great if they strike out on PG too, and we appear to be perfect trade partners for one another. I still wonder if they'd be better off signing Marcus Smart to just above MLE (and front loading it so Celtics don't match) but Lowry makes sense for them.


It's still a disaster trade that traps us in 8th seed hell. KL would be a good move for Philly but we do we trade him now?


I think we're going to lose Fred if we don't get off money. MLSE isn't paying 150M payroll expense (tax inc) for a non-contender. Trading guys into cap space is the only way to get off big money without having to match salary, and there are few if any deals like that for us this year that make sense for both parties. But Lowry to Philly does make some sense in theory if we can agree on a return. Our team hit it's peak and needs to get younger. Philly needs a big name FA shooter / secondary creator for next two years before SImmons and Saric extensions kick in.

I know everyone wants to rebuild but you have to do it in steps. It isn't realistic to trade everyone from a 59 win team all at once so you can play the lottery game. We're better off maximizing each asset in order to retain flexibility. Maybe we win. Maybe we find a diamond in the rough and develop him and he's the piece that nets us a top 5 pick or develops into an all star.

The "treadmill" narrative is way out of whack at this point. It basically means everyone who isn't the Warriors or tanking. How about we just focus on retaining our assets and turning guys into assets. Having a bunch of guys on your team who are all outplaying their contracts is a good thing.


You're missing my point. I don't disagree that we have to rebuild in steps. Where I disagree is that this team can succeed without KL. Without him IMO we are around the 8th seed. And at that level we are not really retooling - we are barely watchable in the RS and first round fodder while also not getting a good draft pick. That is the actual treadmill: a team too good to really rebuild and too bad to actually be watchable in the RS.

I don't disagree that we need to retool. I don't disagree that stockpiling assets is a good idea now. I disagree strongly that a rooting team should trade their best piece first. DD is the player that has to go - not KL. Lowry is the better player AND will be a massive expiring deal after next season. His deal and Ibaka line up. Whereas IMO DD is less valuable as a player while being younger on a longer deal with more accolades. He's the guy we've got to trade.
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Re: Kyle Lowry very available 

Post#240 » by VanWest82 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:57 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:You're missing my point. I don't disagree that we have to rebuild in steps. Where I disagree is that this team can succeed without KL. Without him IMO we are around the 8th seed. And at that level we are not really retooling - we are barely watchable in the RS and first round fodder while also not getting a good draft pick. That is the actual treadmill: a team too good to really rebuild and too bad to actually be watchable in the RS.


Well at some point you're going to have to try to succeed without Lowry. He's turning 33 next year. This isn't going to go on forever. But one thing you can do is maximize his trade value before the end.

I don't disagree that we need to retool. I don't disagree that stockpiling assets is a good idea now. I disagree strongly that a rooting team should trade their best piece first. DD is the player that has to go - not KL. Lowry is the better player AND will be a massive expiring deal after next season. His deal and Ibaka line up. Whereas IMO DD is less valuable as a player while being younger on a longer deal with more accolades. He's the guy we've got to trade.


If we trade Lowry or DD we're not retooling we're rebuilding. The other would likely go soon after. You absolutely trade your most valuable asset first (or at least the deal that nets you what you want most) and go from there. As soon as you start trading away your core guys everyone else knows the other ones aren't far behind so their value goes down.

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