U17 World Championship: TEAM CANADA

[Hair Canada]

Hair Canada wrote:

"Yes, too bad. I wonder how this happened since the US is ranked first in the men's youth category and we are second. I'd expect the draw to reflect that."

---------------------------------------------------------

Here is your answer

Draw

The draw ceremony for the FIBA U17 Basketball World Cup 2018 took place on Wednesday,
March 14, at 19:00 local time (GMT -3) in the Rostower Hotel, in Rosario, Argentina.

The ceremony was livestreamed on FIBA's YouTube channel.

The 16 teams participating in the fourth edition of the FIBA U17 Women's Basketball World
Cup are:

Host country: Argentina
Africa: Egypt, Mali
Americas: Canada, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, USA
Asia: 4 teams to be determined at the FIBA U16 Asian Championship taking place in Foshan,
China from April 2-8
Europe: Croatia, France, Montenegro, Serbia, Turkey

Here are the draw principles:
Pot 1: USA, Asia 1, France, Montenegro
Pot 2: Canada, Serbia, Croatia, Turkey
Pot 3: Puerto Rico, Argentina, Asia 2, Asia 3
Pot 4: Dominican Republic, Asia 4, Mali, Egypt

The following restrictions will apply:
Pot 2
Canada not with USA and Asia 1

Pot 3
Puerto Rico and Argentina not with USA and Canada

Pot 4
Asia 4 not with Asia 1, Asia 2 and Asia 3

Thanks for this. Very strange indeed. why use this convoluted system and puy two European teams in the top tier (including Montenegro in their first-ever appearance at this tournament) instead of using FIBA's own ranking system, which, while not perfect, at least considers the recent records of teams in the last few teen championships?

[Mr Cam]

FIBA is a EUROPEAN Organization. The same organization that STOLE a Gold Medal from the USA in

the 1972 Olympics. These people have FIFA envy. They WISHED that basketball was equal to, or su-

perior to, soccer in worldwide popularity, prestige, and thus $$$!!! FIBA uses the language of SOCCER

in its vocabulary to describe basketball. And I have a theory as to why. 99.99% of what is basketball

is AMERICAN. Forget that Naismith "invented" basketball. He did so at the request of and while working

for, an AMERICAN Institution. It is so disgusting to see people use British Soccerisms to describe a

basketball GAME. Remember, it is a GAME, not a "match". You do not "finish" at the rim. He put the

ball in the hole, he buried that shot, all net. These are but a FEW of the terms I grew up with to des-

cribe making a of the shot.

As to why Canada will face Team USA in the Semis and not the finals.

FIBA's draw rules demand that "Geographical Principals" have to be respected. Pot One represents the

BEST National teams for the 2018 FIBA U17 Tournament. This definition starts with the FIBA Americas

U16 Tournament. USA Basketball sent the basketball equivalent of SOG to last year's U16 Tournament.

They essentially ambushed ALL of their opponents. And that was no accident.

FIBA ranks Europe as the number one geographical region. Continental Champions go into pot one. There-

fore Montenegro finished second in EUROPE and their second is ranked above Canada's second in FIBA

Americas.

Here are the draw principles:

Pot 1: USA CHAMP, Asia 1 CHAMP, France CHAMP, Montenegro

As a result, everytime Canada wins their group 3-0 and Team USA wins their group 3-0, guess what, you

will play Team USA in the Semi-Finals. Which means that to GET into the Gold Medal Final, you have to

beat Team USA. And when you don't, the best you can hope for is a Bronze Medal. FIBA knows this, and it

is not an accident. The whole Tournament setup is designed to make it as hard as possible for Team USA

to win at EVERY LEVEL.

And this goes back to FIBA's FIFA envy. FIBA absolutely cannot stand that it does not and cannot control Bas-

ketball in the USA. As an American I LAUGH at European basketball. Reason? They play "SYSTEM" basketball

and Euro players are so ROBOTIC as a result. I laugh at FIBA. I LOVE it that the NBA & the NCAA hold seats of

POWER at FIBA HQ. FIBA has slowly migrated their "rules" towards the NBA rules. And FIBA wishes they could

impose FIBA rules on American Basketball.

[Mr Cam]

http://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2018/news/perasovic-inspired-by-croatian-u19-world-cup-final-fight-v-usa

Look at what Ivan Perasovic said in an interview before tomorrow's game against Team USA.

"It means a lot to be back," Perasovic said. "It is going to be very hard against America, but we will give our all and hope to win."

http://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2018/news/patterson-happy-about-target-on-canada%E2%80%99s-back-out-to-repeat-u19-success-over-usa

Look at what Addison Patterson said in HIS interview.

When asked about the Canada's objective in Rosario and Santa Fe, Patterson said straight-faced: "Beat the USA in the Semi-Finals
and win the gold medal for Canada."

That was a HUGE mistake. USA head coach Don Showalter (USA Basketball) should PRINT out that statement and tape it over the

locker of each player as a challenge. You will notice that FIBA rarely does Team USA player interviews in print. And at the youth

level, I think USA Basketball maintains a hermetic seal on the mouth of American youth players, boy or girl.

[frumble]

At the last U17 worlds (2016), we were on opposite side of the draw as the US. If we had beaten Turkey in the quarters, we would have faced Spain in the semis. As it was, Turkey beat Spain in one semi and the US beat Lithuania in the other.

[Mr Cam]

At the last U17 worlds (2016), we were on opposite side of the draw as the US. If we had beaten Turkey in the quarters, we would have faced Spain in the semis. As it was, Turkey beat Spain in one semi and the US beat Lithuania in the other.

If would have been great to see THAT USA U16 Team in the 2017 U19 Tournament.

http://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2018/news/five-2016-u17-world-champions-picked-in-first-round-of-2018-nba-draft

That team does not lose by 12 points to ANYONE, PERIOD.

And 2017 is the last time Rowan Barrett Jr. wins a Gold Medal.

http://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2018/news/crowned-in-zaragoza-how-the-fiba-u17-basketball-world-cup-2016-opened-the-door-for-collin-sexton

Andrew Nembhard can only Dream.

[Hair Canada]

There will be time to talk about the potential match up with the US if and when we get to the semis.

In the meanwhile, tomorrow it's Australia. We met them 4 times in the U17s in the past and were always able to have the upper hand, but it wasn't always easy. Two years ago, the very talented team with Barrett, Simi, Nembhard, and Brazdeikis got a very hard win over the Aussies in the group stage, but then also had a blowout 40-point win in a rankings game.

I wrote the following about Australia in my preview:

"Their best current player and future prospect is Tamuri Wigness – a lightning-quick 6’0 PG with a fantastic handle and very good creativeness. He’s only 16 (class of 2021), but reminds me (and others) a bit of a young Kyrie Irving (another “Australian”). Wigness is maybe the most talented non-American player in the competition, along with Hayes from France and the Canadian Patterson. Next to him, Wani Swaka Lo Buluk is a SF with good size (6’6). Excellent shooter from behind the arc, with good shot mechanics (although release is a bit slow). Not a great athlete, but strong and fundamentally sound. Both Wigness and Buluk scored 15 points a game and were the best prospects on the team. Beyond these two players, Australia also has a couple of nice role players, in particular, the two Lukes -- Travers (good athleticism, slashing and passing skills, although he often plays big in the Ozzies’ undersized roster) and Jackson. Australia is not a tall team (tallest rotation player is 6’7), so they are likely to be eaten alive in the paint by the Americans. But, like most former Australian teams, their game is very team-oriented and they play disciplined and with a lot of spirit, so I think they can make some noise and can make life hard for bigger and perhaps more talented teams. In fact, Canada met Australia for a scrimmage game yesterday and was hardly able to squeeze a tight one-point-difference win. Certainly will not be a walk in the park if they meet again."


Having watched two of their games in this championship, I changed my mind a little. Wigness is indeed talented, but certainly not the second coming of Kyrie Irving. He's very quick and has excellent handle, but doesn't have Irving's size and athleticism. So far, he had a pretty bad competition, with 9.5 points (bad shooting), 3 assists, and almost 5 turnovers. Still, he remains a dengerous player, who can explode in the open court. Wani Swaka Lo Buluk has been even worse. Slow, takes bad decisions (4.5 turnovers for a SF) and he also doesn't shoot the ball well in this tournament.

So how did the Aussies still get here? Mainly, I'ts the two Lukes, Jackson and Travers, who carry them on their backs. If they didn't have the same name and a different birthday, I would think they were twins. A similar look, with an identical "Kelly Olynyk" haircut, and also a similar game -- tough, playing bigger than their actual size (looks like they are about 6'6'), fairly athletic, good shooters, and high IQ, sharing the ball. Jackson is also a fantastic rebounder (second in the tournament with 13 a game).

Even with that, The Aussies are really not a very talented team this year. If Canada can play to its potential, pound the boards, and exploit its athletic advantage, this can easily be another blowout. The Australians are very turnover-prone (24 turnovers a game! The worst in the competition. Canada with only 15). So applying some pressure on the ball and running to fast breaks can really blow this open. But if we catch another bad game, like we did in the quarterfinals two years ago, with lackadaisical defence and selfish offence, Australia is tough and gritty enough to drag this into an ugly trench warfare and make us pay. With mobile forwards who can shoot the three and make the extra pass (Williamson is another one of these), they can drag this into a tight game, and perhaps pull an upset. We need to come ready for a dogfight.

I would shorten the rotation and play very limited minutes with one of our two heavy bigs. They are really a disadvantage in a game like this, in which you want a high tempo and where they would have a hard time against the mobile forwards of the Aussies who can stretch the floor. MAM, Hemmings and Krikke (good championship so far) should get the bulk of the minutes at the 4 and 5, where they can space the offence and give Patterson and Rathan-Mayes space to work.

[Mr Cam]

Dear Hair Canada

I find your Team Canada descriptions to be balanced, thoughtful, and for the most part thorough. How-

ever, in this case, way over analyzed. 1. To compare Tamuri Wigness to a young Kyrie Irving is ABSURD.

Cole Anthony (USA), Alec White (USA), & Quentin Grimes (USA) are ALL 2x to 3x better that he is now. Wig-

ness will be lucky to be HALF as good any of them two years from today. 2. Australia is a two player team.

Stop the two Lukes and Australia sleeps with the fish. 3. As for talent: Not one player on this Australian U17

Team would receive an invite to a USA Basketball Men’s Junior National Team Minicamp.

As for Patterson, I will enjoy watching him eat a glacier sized helping of humble pie in the Semis. If Team

Canada cannot beat THIS Australian Team, every single player on Team Canada should QUIT the game of

basketball forever.

[Mr Cam]

So how did the Aussies still get here? Mainly, I'ts the two Lukes, Jackson and Travers, who carry them on their backs. If they didn't have the same name and a different birthday, I would think they were twins. A similar look, with an identical "Kelly Olynyk" haircut, and also a similar game -- tough, playing bigger than their actual size (looks like they are about 6'6'), fairly athletic, good shooters, and high IQ, sharing the ball. Jackson is also a fantastic rebounder (second in the tournament with 13 a game).

I would shorten the rotation and play very limited minutes with one of our two heavy bigs. They are really a disadvantage in a game like this, in which you want a high tempo and where they would have a hard time against the mobile forwards of the Aussies who can stretch the floor. MAM, Hemmings and Krikke (good championship so far) should get the bulk of the minutes at the 4 and 5, where they can space the offence and give Patterson and Rathan-Mayes space to work.

The two Lukes are "pedestrian" at best.

Isaiah TODD 6'10" Forward: Did not answer USA Basketball's U17 tryout invite.

2017 FIBA Americas U16 Tournament
Tournament +/- PER PTS
Average 16.0 1.8/4.639.1% 1.8/4.242.9% 0/0.40% 1.8/445% 1 4.2 5.2 0.6 3 2.6 0.8 1.6 21 6 5.4

2017 FIBA Americas U16 Tournament
James WISEMAN 6'10" Center: Was INJURED during USA Basketball's U17 tryout.

2018 FIBA U17 Tournament
Tournament +/- PER PTS
Average 17.8 5.4/8.861.4% 5.4/8.861.4% 0/00% 0.6/160% 2 3 5 1 1.4 2.2 0.6 1 19.6 13 11.4

As a result Evan Mobley 6-11 Forward: Took James WISEMAN's roster spot.

This was his best game so far.
PTS +/- PER
12 Evan Mobley 19:13 10 5/6 83.3% 5/6 83.3% 0/0 - 0/0 - 1 5 6 3 1 2 2 4 27 22

Vernon CAREY JR. along with the rest of our front line are by FAR the best forwards in the Tournament.

[Hair Canada]

Dear Hair Canada

I find your Team Canada descriptions to be balanced, thoughtful, and for the most part thorough. How-

ever, in this case, way over analyzed. 1. To compare Tamuri Wigness to a young Kyrie Irving is ABSURD.

Cole Anthony (USA), Alec White (USA), & Quentin Grimes (USA) are ALL 2x to 3x better that he is now. Wig-

ness will be lucky to be HALF as good any of them two years from today. 2. Australia is a two player team.

Stop the two Lukes and Australia sleeps with the fish. 3. As for talent: Not one player on this Australian U17

Team would receive an invite to a USA Basketball Men’s Junior National Team Minicamp.

As for Patterson, I will enjoy watching him eat a glacier sized helping of humble pie in the Semis. If Team

Canada cannot beat THIS Australian Team, every single player on Team Canada should QUIT the game of

basketball forever.

Ah, some nice early trash talk. Don't mind that at all. Keeps things interesting

Actually, if you look at what I wrote (today, earlier in this thread, and in the preview that I called "the competition") you'll see that I'm in agreement on most of what you write here.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1719571&p=67074981#p67074981

If and when we get to the anticipated US--Canada semis, I'll be happy to expand on this.

As for the Canada-Australia matchup, I also agree on that. You'll see that I wrote Wigness is no Kyrie and I also no longer think he's at the level of the French guards, so of course not the American ones. And yes, the Australian team has very mediocre long-term talent and the two Jacksons are really nice players, but clearly very limited for the next level.

The reason I'm careful about this game is that two years ago during the same competition, a more talented Canadian team than the present one seemed destined to meet the US in the finals, but then lost in the quarterfinals to a much less talented Turkish team. So, once bitten, twice shy. Similarly, the US was certainly not supposed to lose to Canada in last year's U18 semis if you look at the talent levels on both sides. But it stil happened.

[Mr Cam]

Ah, some nice early trash talk. Don't mind that at all. Keeps things interesting

Dear Hair Canada

I try my best never to "trash" talk. However, Addison Isiah Patterson

likes to run his mouth. Please read Post 23 & 25.

[Hair Canada]

Ah, some nice early trash talk. Don't mind that at all. Keeps things interesting

Dear Hair Canada

I try my best never to "trash" talk. However, Addison Isiah Patterson

likes to run his mouth. Please read Post 23 & 25.

What did he say that you find so controversial/disrespectful? From what I read, all he said was that he wants to win the game against the US if they get there, even though Canada is clearly the underdog. I saw no dissing and actually like that he has some self-confidence and ambition. I think it would be a really long shot (and Patterson is no Barrett), but why not say that you want it?

[Mattd97]

http://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2018/news/perasovic-inspired-by-croatian-u19-world-cup-final-fight-v-usa

Look at what Ivan Perasovic said in an interview before tomorrow's game against Team USA.

"It means a lot to be back," Perasovic said. "It is going to be very hard against America, but we will give our all and hope to win."

http://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2018/news/patterson-happy-about-target-on-canada%E2%80%99s-back-out-to-repeat-u19-success-over-usa

Look at what Addison Patterson said in HIS interview.

When asked about the Canada's objective in Rosario and Santa Fe, Patterson said straight-faced: "Beat the USA in the Semi-Finals
and win the gold medal for Canada."

That was a HUGE mistake. USA head coach Don Showalter (USA Basketball) should PRINT out that statement and tape it over the

locker of each player as a challenge. You will notice that FIBA rarely does Team USA player interviews in print. And at the youth

level, I think USA Basketball maintains a hermetic seal on the mouth of American youth players, boy or girl.

What? That's just silly. I guess next time someone asked their expectations they should say "we will lose to america" to avoid disrespecting them? But yeah I'd love to see the American coach tape up a quote from the other team saying they want to win rather than lose. Great motivation....

[Mr Cam]

Ah, some nice early trash talk. Don't mind that at all. Keeps things interesting

Dear Hair Canada

I try my best never to "trash" talk. However, Addison Isiah Patterson

likes to run his mouth. Please read Post 23 & 25.

What did he say that you find so controversial/disrespectful?

Addison Isiah Patterson stated:

"I love it," he says with a near smile on his otherwise stoic face. "You want to be at the top and have people aiming at you. I

love people coming for me. I like being at the top."

For American Basketball fans the ONLY international competition medal that matters is the Olympic Basketball GOLD Medal.

For us Americans, anything less than the Olympic GOLD MEDAL is FAILURE, PERIOD. For our youth teams, anything less than

a GOLD MEDAL is FAILURE, PERIOD.

Understand this very clearly. Canada is not, never has been, and never will be at the top of the basketball world. Hair Canada,

what scenario must take place for Canada to SURPASS USA Basketball in the number of International Titles that Team USA has

won? In particular, Olympic GOLD MEDALS. Our Team USA Women have won 8 of the 11 Olympic Gold Medals in Basketball. Our

Team USA Men have won 15 out of the 19 Olympic Gold Medals in Basketball. In the 1972 Olympics, FIBA CHEATED the USA out

of a Gold Medal. IN 1980, President Carter boycotted the Olympics in Russian. In 1988, the Russians won legitimately. In 2004,

we lost to Argentina. Canada's Men won a Silver Medal in Olympic Basketball at the 1936 Olympic Games in Germany. Your Wo-

men have NEVER won a medal in Olympic Basketball. However, the women of Team Canada did win the Bronze Medal in the 19-

79 & 1986 World Championship for Women.

In my opinion the Modern era of Women's International Basketball begins in 1976 when the IOC added Women's Basketball to

the Summer Olympics. FIBA had staged seven World Championships for Women in 1953, 1957, 1959, 1964, 1967, 1971, &

1975. For women's sports in the USA, 1972 is a MILESTONE. That is the year that Title IX was passed. This legislation was

passed with the idea that women's sports would receive more equitable funding at ALL U.S. two year & four year collages &

Universities that granted advanced degrees. In College, the men and women played basketball, except up until the early 70's,

they played basketball by a set of rules we would not recognize today.

In September, the 2018 World Women's World Cup of Basketball will take place. And Team USA's Women will have the oppor-

tunity to win their third consecutive Women's World Title to go along with their sixth consecutive Olympic GOLD Medal. This

will complete the FIRST EVER double triple for the Olympic & World Title in Women's Basketball. In September 2019 the World

World Cup of Basketball for Men will take place. And Team USA's Men will have the opportunity to win their third consecutive

Men's World Title to go along with their third consecutive Olympic Basketball GOLD Medal. This too, would complete the FIRST

EVER double triple for the Olympic & World Title in Men's Basketball. That's what I define as sitting on top of the basketball

world. And that is an achievement that Canada nor any other country will EVER know.

[Mr Cam]

http://www.fiba.basketball/world/u17/2018/news/perasovic-inspired-by-croatian-u19-world-cup-final-fight-v-usa

What? That's just silly. I guess next time someone asked their expectations they should say "we will lose to america" to avoid disrespecting them? But yeah I'd love to see the American coach tape up a quote from the other team saying they want to win rather than lose. Great motivation....

An EXTREME example of what can happen when you run your mouth.

https://timeline.com/emile-griffith-bisexual-boxer-killed-homophobic-opponent-f1a33b7c2de0

[Mattd97]

Maybe you should sit down for a while...

[Hair Canada]

Okay, this is going into a textual analysis, which I have no wish to spend too much time on. Still, my reading of this interview is very different. When Patterson is saying "you want to be at the top" and "I have no problem with this", he's clearly referring to the statement by whoever wrote this article that after Canada won the U19 last year, it now has a target on its back. Nowhere does he (nor anyone in his right mind) say that Canada is now the #1 basketball nation in the world... Not to mention that "being at the top" does not necessarily mean being #1. I've criticized Patterson quite harshly before for his attitude on the court, but I really see nothing disrespectful or outrageous in what he's saying here.

I'm not even going to get into the "what scenario must take place for Canada to SURPASS USA Basketball in the number of International Titles that Team USA has won?", because that's a clear straw man -- no one has even talked about this. Given its much less-than-stellar performance over the last 20 years, the senior Canadian basketball team still has so much to prove against the other international powers before it can even talk about matching up with the US.

[mojo13]

Maybe you should sit down for a while...

I'm usually open to diverse and unique viewpoints - if I find one's opinions a little wacky I just try to ignore or at least not feed 'em. Admittedly I'm don't always follow my own advice.

Hah...don't let flame wars bring down this precious thread!

[Mr Cam]

More often than not, this is what happens when a player in any sport runs their mouth.

# Bench Min Pts FG 2Pts 3Pts FT OREB DREB REB AST PF TO STL BLK +/- EFF

9 Patterson 9:50 4 2/6 2/5 0/1 0/0 1 0 1 0 2 1 0 0 -1 0
33.33% 40% 0% 0%

Australia 38 Q3 05:50 Canada 39

Now ask yourself one question. Does anyone really believe that EITHER team can hold Team USA to 35 points

with 05:50 to go in the third period? At this point not ONE Canadian player has a PER above 9. PATHETIC.

[Mr Cam]

More often than not, this is what happens when a player in any sport runs their mouth.

# Bench Min Pts FG 2Pts 3Pts FT OREB DREB REB AST PF TO STL BLK +/- EFF

9 Patterson 9:50 4 2/6 2/5 0/1 0/0 1 0 1 0 2 1 0 0 -1 0
33.33% 40% 0% 0%

Australia 38 Q3 05:50 Canada 39

Now ask yourself one question. Does anyone really believe that EITHER team can hold Team USA to 35 points

with 05:50 to go in the third period? At this point not ONE Canadian player has a PER above 9. PATHETIC.

[Mr Cam]

Okay, this is going into a textual analysis, which I have no wish to spend too much time on. Still, my reading of this interview is very different. When Patterson is saying "you want to be at the top" and "I have no problem with this", he's clearly referring to the statement by whoever wrote this article that after Canada won the U19 last year, it now has a target on its back. Nowhere does he (nor anyone in his right mind) say that Canada is now the #1 basketball nation in the world... Not to mention that "being at the top" does not necessarily mean being #1. I've criticized Patterson quite harshly before for his attitude on the court, but I really see nothing disrespectful or outrageous in what he's saying here.

I'm not even going to get into the "what scenario must take place for Canada to SURPASS USA Basketball in the number of International Titles that Team USA has won?", because that's a clear straw man -- no one has even talked about this. Given its much less-than-stellar performance over the last 20 years, the senior Canadian basketball team still has so much to prove against the other international powers before it can even talk about matching up with the US.

The key entence in my post: That's what I define as sitting on top of the basketball world.