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Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

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El Mas Chingon
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2601 » by El Mas Chingon » Tue Sep 3, 2019 10:39 pm

frumble wrote:
Its been going on longer than that.
Remember when Nash and Todd McCullough were pretty reliable but Magloire, Fox, and Wennington rarely played?


I don't remember the circumstances around Wennington I was more enthralled with the drama around The Worm (side note I just blanked in his real name but have the visuals of his crazy hair, nose ring, dating Madonna, his wedding dress. Etc there was a nightly report "As The Worm Turns" Lol) and the Bulls in general and MJ going to play baseball cause he gambled. Lol.

But I do remember the hand wringing over Rick Fox and Magloir. I felt like the narrative was always those guys were unpatriotic and no one ever called out Canada Basketball. The Rick Fox stuff I believed. He was all Hollywood married to my crush Vanessa Williams. The Magloir stuff seemed weird to me cause I saw him in the community in Scarbs and seemed like decent dude that appreciate his roots.

I guess it's been a bit of a cluster **** for decades.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2602 » by YelloC » Tue Sep 3, 2019 11:15 pm

Could Norm Powell(for example) apply for Canadian citizenship and play for the NT since his chances of playing for US are zero?
I know Marty D just got his citizenship.
Lowry is fully committed to team US but for long-term Raptors players that wouldn’t make that team, playing for team Canada could help them elevate their brand in Canada and grow their game and expand their role.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2603 » by Alfred » Tue Sep 3, 2019 11:36 pm

El Mas Chingon wrote:I'm actually getting mad. How **** stupid is Basketball Canada that they had no clue that most NBA players they invited weren't going to commit?

It was embarrassing that they put out a list that was meaningless. Wtf? That's 100% a sign that they don't have their finger on the pulse of the players. They look clueless. Something is definitely up and I have no faith in the media being able to get a straight answer.

Maybe it was a ploy to make the top level talent feel like they would be joining other top level talent. Players on the fence might be more likely to join if they felt like other bigger name players would be attending.

It didn’t work obviously.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2604 » by OntZags » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:56 am

YelloC wrote:Could Norm Powell(for example) apply for Canadian citizenship and play for the NT since his chances of playing for US are zero?
I know Marty D just got his citizenship.
Lowry is fully committed to team US but for long-term Raptors players that wouldn’t make that team, playing for team Canada could help them elevate their brand in Canada and grow their game and expand their role.


He theoretically could. National teams can have 1 non natural citizen on their team so long as they play 3 years in that country.

I feel like OG Anunoby is the more likely candidate though. Siakim feels pretty full of Cameroon pride. OG however is Nigerian by ethnicity but born in the UK and largely raised in the US. A true globetrotter that fits in with the Canadian identity these days.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2605 » by aminiaturebuddha » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:04 am

Kenter16 wrote:
Darknemo2000 wrote:Well to tell the truth theres a reason this group was cosidered to be a group of death. Had Canada been in groups A or B they would have taken at least spot 2 there.... But luck had them play in this group...


Not luck. Canada's world ranking put them in this group. We have never been able to perform on the big stage, so we are stuck with a lower world ranking than our talent suggests. If we beat VEN 4 years ago, we probably win the americas, show well at the olympics, then we are a top 10 team and get into a higher pot and put in a group with teams ranked lower than us.


True, although it's still a little odd that FIBA used one system to qualify for the World Cup and then another for the seedings once countries were there. Canada finished first in the Americas in their new qualification system (that actually slightly disadvantaged Canada more than most countries due to the timing of the qualification games), but then that was completely thrown out of consideration for the seedings. Additionally, there was a ridiculous and unnecessary advantage given to China as the host that really messed with all of the groups.

In short, yes, Canada's previous failures contributed to our low ranking, but FIBA also stacked the deck in the way they created this new World Cup.

However, despite all of this, Canada should still have been able to advance if even half of our best players had bothered to show up.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2606 » by aminiaturebuddha » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:07 am

My anger right now is pretty much equally divided between our selfish NBA players (who I hope feel the wrath of the Toronto fans when they visit this upcoming NBA season, while CoJo and Birch deserve standing ovations), their manipulative agents, Basketball Canada (who seem beyond incompetent at this point), the Canadian sports media for never bothering to ask even simple questions about the program, and FIBA (who are willing to alter the competitive balance of competition for any country that shells out a little money).
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2607 » by Brinbe » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:09 am

I think these questions need to be asked because we're clearly developing the players correctly in this country, or at least the raw talent is there, but there just is a disconnect once they get to the next level. Even a guy like Rj was there in qualifying and then dipped after.

If you look at the team we had against the DR in qualifying it's a magnitude better than what we saw in the actual world cup and that's a damn shame!

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2608 » by steadysoul » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:34 am

aminiaturebuddha wrote:
Kenter16 wrote:
Darknemo2000 wrote:Well to tell the truth theres a reason this group was cosidered to be a group of death. Had Canada been in groups A or B they would have taken at least spot 2 there.... But luck had them play in this group...


Not luck. Canada's world ranking put them in this group. We have never been able to perform on the big stage, so we are stuck with a lower world ranking than our talent suggests. If we beat VEN 4 years ago, we probably win the americas, show well at the olympics, then we are a top 10 team and get into a higher pot and put in a group with teams ranked lower than us.


True, although it's still a little odd that FIBA used one system to qualify for the World Cup and then another for the seedings once countries were there. Canada finished first in the Americas in their new qualification system (that actually slightly disadvantaged Canada more than most countries due to the timing of the qualification games), but then that was completely thrown out of consideration for the seedings. Additionally, there was a ridiculous and unnecessary advantage given to China as the host that really messed with all of the groups.

In short, yes, Canada's previous failures contributed to our low ranking, but FIBA also stacked the deck in the way they created this new World Cup.

However, despite all of this, Canada should still have been able to advance if even half of our best players had bothered to show up.


This is definitely confusion on your part. Canada did not finish first in the qualifiers because it isn't set up in such a way. Did they win the most games in their final group? yes. Did that result in a gold medal? Nope. Hence it not being "First place". Beyond that FIBA has always used their rankings which were updated after every window without fail. The deck wasn't stacked. Canadians were clearly not interested in learning the rules of the game.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2609 » by mojo13 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 3:33 am

People coming out of the woodwork here tonight with all sorts of misinformation. Pass.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2610 » by frumble » Wed Sep 4, 2019 3:52 am

steadysoul wrote:
This is definitely confusion on your part. Canada did not finish first in the qualifiers because it isn't set up in such a way. Did they win the most games in their final group? yes. Did that result in a gold medal? Nope. Hence it not being "First place". Beyond that FIBA has always used their rankings which were updated after every window without fail. The deck wasn't stacked. Canadians were clearly not interested in learning the rules of the game.


The confusion is on your part if your reasoning is that no gold medal means they did not finish first. Finishing with the best record means finishing first, even if there is no gold medal or even a first place ribbon.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2611 » by gundysmullet » Wed Sep 4, 2019 4:29 am

And we still don’t know why Andrew Nicholson was not on the team.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2612 » by Tomazan » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:42 am

young11a wrote:
Tomazan wrote:
Brinbe wrote:americans struggling against the turks too. so at least we're not the only ones lol


Well, in Canada's case there is nothing to be upset about. Lithuania and Australia were clear favourites of the group and the gap between those teams and Canada is pretty big.

USA on the other hand is struggling vs tier 3 teams.



Australia and Lithuania both suck


Nah, you're just salty. Both teams are really good and are among top 5-6 in the tournament. :nod: 8-)
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2613 » by JN » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:48 am

steadysoul wrote:
aminiaturebuddha wrote:
Kenter16 wrote:
Not luck. Canada's world ranking put them in this group. We have never been able to perform on the big stage, so we are stuck with a lower world ranking than our talent suggests. If we beat VEN 4 years ago, we probably win the americas, show well at the olympics, then we are a top 10 team and get into a higher pot and put in a group with teams ranked lower than us.


True, although it's still a little odd that FIBA used one system to qualify for the World Cup and then another for the seedings once countries were there. Canada finished first in the Americas in their new qualification system (that actually slightly disadvantaged Canada more than most countries due to the timing of the qualification games), but then that was completely thrown out of consideration for the seedings. Additionally, there was a ridiculous and unnecessary advantage given to China as the host that really messed with all of the groups.

In short, yes, Canada's previous failures contributed to our low ranking, but FIBA also stacked the deck in the way they created this new World Cup.

However, despite all of this, Canada should still have been able to advance if even half of our best players had bothered to show up.


This is definitely confusion on your part. Canada did not finish first in the qualifiers because it isn't set up in such a way. Did they win the most games in their final group? yes. Did that result in a gold medal? Nope. Hence it not being "First place". Beyond that FIBA has always used their rankings which were updated after every window without fail. The deck wasn't stacked. Canadians were clearly not interested in learning the rules of the game.


Generalize much? I wlll lump you in with other Nets fans who laughably said RHJ was as good, or comparable to Pascal Siakam at the beginning of last year.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2614 » by Calinks » Wed Sep 4, 2019 6:27 am

Canada would have been a top 3 team if they got most of their NBA guys. Canada could have beat the US in this tournament. You see superstars like Giannis playing. You see rookies like Rui Hachimura playing, just makes you more upset that like the top 5 Canadian talents couldn't get one guy to show up.

Would be must see TV if a few of those stars were here. Could have been an awesome platform for some of the rookie and second year players too. Guy like Brandon Clarke could really set the tone for his season if he was a star in the tourney.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2615 » by GreenGarlic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:47 am

Kazan Unics is a rich Euroleage-level club. 21-5 (2nd place) in Russian league regular season. They just can't get back to Euroleague. I consider them as a top european club. Ejim's new club Unicaja is a Euroleague-level club, too. 21-13 (5th place) in ACB regular season. There are weaker clubs in Euroleague than these two.

Mirotic12 wrote:I don't think Ejim ever played in a top European club that I remember. I might be wrong, but I don't remember it.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2616 » by GreenGarlic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 8:23 am

Canada with its all best NBA players would have the second deepest roster after the USA. At least on paper.

Starting fives of USA, Serbia, France, Spain and Australia would still be better than Canada's.

Some of your NBA players, despite their NBA reputation, would not be that good by FIBA basketball standards. And the coach would still be your weakest link.

Sarunas Jasikevicius, the slowest poing guard in basketball history and a barely known name in Europe back then, destroyed Payton (1999-2000 All-NBA 1st team) and Kidd (1999-2000 All-NBA 1st team), two best guards in the World, in Sydney Olympics semi-final in 2000. International basketball has always been a different animal compared to NBA.
Boxscore: https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/game/p/gid/A/grid/2/rid/125/sid/2945/tid/2135/_/2000_Olympic_Games_Tournament_for_Men/statistic.html

Serbian point guards Micic and Jovic are better than Kemba Walker (All-NBA team) at FIBA basketball, despite the fact that most NBA fans have never heard of them. Kemba Walker is an undisciplined, undersized defensive liability. An awful combination for a point guard by FIBA/European basketball standards.

Calinks wrote:Canada would have been a top 3 team if they got most of their NBA guys. Canada could have beat the US in this tournament. You see superstars like Giannis playing. You see rookies like Rui Hachimura playing, just makes you more upset that like the top 5 Canadian talents couldn't get one guy to show up.

Would be must see TV if a few of those stars were here. Could have been an awesome platform for some of the rookie and second year players too. Guy like Brandon Clarke could really set the tone for his season if he was a star in the tourney.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2617 » by UcanUwill » Wed Sep 4, 2019 9:28 am

hA, Micic is not better than Kemba Walker. This sounds just like Mirotic12 trol saying Goran Dragic would be average Euroleague player, right before Goran Dragic light up entire Eurobasket. All these All NBA players would figure it out and be dominant sooner or later, with very few exceptions.
If you are Fiba nation, what player you rather have, Micic or Kemba? Its not even close you take Kemba Walker.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2618 » by GreenGarlic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 10:27 am

I would take Walker, if my team was mediocre or had no bench.
I would take Micic + Jovic if my team was USA, Serbia or France. Despite their vastly inferior individual skills.

Would Kemba be willing to adjust to FIBA basketball? Why would he? He get's paid by NBA teams not FIBA.

I do not question if he would be capable of figuring it out. Scottie Wilbekin is a very poor man's Kemba Walker. A relatively successful Euroleague and World Cup player. He had to adapt to European basketball to get paid. It took some time.

UcanUwill wrote:hA, Micic is not better than Kemba Walker. This sounds just like Mirotic12 trol saying Goran Dragic would be average Euroleague player, right before Goran Dragic light up entire Eurobasket. All these All NBA players would figure it out and be dominant sooner or later, with very few exceptions.
If you are Fiba nation, what player you rather have, Micic or Kemba? Its not even close you take Kemba Walker.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2619 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 12:10 pm

GreenGarlic wrote:Kazan Unics is a rich Euroleage-level club. 21-5 (2nd place) in Russian league regular season. They just can't get back to Euroleague. I consider them as a top european club. Ejim's new club Unicaja is a Euroleague-level club, too. 21-13 (5th place) in ACB regular season. There are weaker clubs in Euroleague than these two.


The EuroLeague teams are clearly better, except maybe ASVEL. So are some EuroCup and FIBA Champions League teams.

I don't think a top 20-25 team in Europe (Malaga, UNICS) is a top level club. In European club basketball, a top level club is, objectively speaking, more like a top 12 team.

And Ejim has never played in EuroLeague, just in the secondary level leagues (EuroCup and FIBA Champions League).
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2620 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 12:20 pm

UcanUwill wrote:hA, Micic is not better than Kemba Walker. This sounds just like Mirotic12 trol saying Goran Dragic would be average Euroleague player, right before Goran Dragic light up entire Eurobasket. All these All NBA players would figure it out and be dominant sooner or later, with very few exceptions.
If you are Fiba nation, what player you rather have, Micic or Kemba? Its not even close you take Kemba Walker.


You still greatly overrate Dragic. He had 2 good FIBA tournaments in his whole career. One was at home with refs help, and the other had literally every single thing go his team's way, like it was magic. He never did jack in EuroLeague either. In NBA, he's extremely inconsistent. He's a very good player, but he's miles away from how you talk about him. There is zero chance he would ever be dominant in EuroLeague, which let me remind you, is much higher competition level than 2017 EuroBasket, and is also an actual league system, and not a tournament, which has luck built into it as a major factor. Do you really think EuroLeague teams and coaches would not make adjustments to Dragic just recklessly driving into the lane all game long? After about a month, every single team in EuroLeague would have that completely shut down.

Even if somehow they didn't shut down his reckless drives - they would just start double teaming before any "domination" would ever be allowed. Spanoulis has been double teamed religiously since 2013 - no way in hell would the EuroLeague teams allow Goran Dragic to dominate the league. Not a chance in hell.

You told me for months that Doncic was at best Joe Ingles or Hedo Turkoglou, and how either of them would have done the same, or better than he did in EuroLeague. I kept telling you that was ridiculous and a total insult. I figured after this last season you would have grasped that you have an extreme underrating of everything related to the EuroLeague. You actually seemed to believe Joe Ingles could be what Doncic was in EuroLeague, which is actually unbelievable to me. But whatever man, keep on bringing up one good FIBA tournament from Dragic to base all your arguments on...

GreenGarlic wrote: Serbian point guards Micic and Jovic are better than Kemba Walker (All-NBA team) at FIBA basketball, despite the fact that most NBA fans have never heard of them. Kemba Walker is an undisciplined, undersized defensive liability. An awful combination for a point guard by FIBA/European basketball standards.


Micic is really good, but Jovic? JOVIC? Surely you are kidding right? Come on man, Jovic isn't that good at all.

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