ImageImageImageImageImage

Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

Moderators: Yuri Vaultin, Morris_Shatford, Patman, pbj, Rhettmatic, Duffman100, Alfred, DG88

User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 15,021
And1: 10,004
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2621 » by UcanUwill » Wed Sep 4, 2019 12:39 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:hA, Micic is not better than Kemba Walker. This sounds just like Mirotic12 trol saying Goran Dragic would be average Euroleague player, right before Goran Dragic light up entire Eurobasket. All these All NBA players would figure it out and be dominant sooner or later, with very few exceptions.
If you are Fiba nation, what player you rather have, Micic or Kemba? Its not even close you take Kemba Walker.


You still greatly overrate Dragic. He had 2 good FIBA tournaments in his whole career. One was at home with refs help, and the other had literally every single thing go his team's way, like it was magic. He never did jack in EuroLeague either. In NBA, he's extremely inconsistent. He's a very good player, but he's miles away from how you talk about him. There is zero chance he would ever be dominant in EuroLeague, which let me remind you, is much higher competition level than 2017 EuroBasket, and is also an actual league system, and not a tournament, which has luck built into it as a major factor. Do you really think EuroLeague teams and coaches would not make adjustments to Dragic just wrecklessly driving into the lane all game long? After about a month, every single team in EuroLeague would have that completely shut down.

You told me for months that Doncic was at best Joe Ingles or Hedo Turkoglou, and how either of them would have done the same, or better than he did in EuroLeague. I kept telling you that was ridiculous and a total insult. I figured after this last season you would have grasped that you have an extreme underrating of everything related to the EuroLeague. You actually seemed to believe Joe Ingles could be what Doncic was in EuroLeague, which is actually unbelievable to me. But whatever man, keep on bringing up one good FIBA tournament from Dragic to base all your arguments on...

GreenGarlic wrote: Serbian point guards Micic and Jovic are better than Kemba Walker (All-NBA team) at FIBA basketball, despite the fact that most NBA fans have never heard of them. Kemba Walker is an undisciplined, undersized defensive liability. An awful combination for a point guard by FIBA/European basketball standards.


Micic is really good, but Jovic? JOVIC? Surely you are kidding right? Come on man, Jovic isn't that good at all.


Well, I said Doncic is Ingles or Turkoglu if he doesnt improve, witch by the way was a theme in Doncic debate forever, people always thought he is peaking, but he enters every new season tremendously improved. And yes, prime Hedo would set Euroleague on fire, he would easily be MVP material player, and I say this as Raptors fan aka Hedo hater.

But overall you so underrate NBA talent, its just a joke, I diubt you yourself believe half the things you say, or if you do your talent evaluation is severely lacking. You think EUroleague teams would shut down a guy who scores 20 points per game in the game, ha, dont make me laugh. Dragic main problem early was his inconsistent 3 point shooting, thats why he was suspect player at the beginning, but he turned that weakness into a strength few years ago and was absolute beast at his peak in 2017.
GreenGarlic
Ballboy
Posts: 16
And1: 2
Joined: Sep 01, 2019

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2622 » by GreenGarlic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:03 pm

Top clubs from top 3 national leagues are elite, even if they do not play in Euroleague. They are at Euroleague level. In my opinion.

Mirotic12 wrote:
GreenGarlic wrote:Kazan Unics is a rich Euroleage-level club. 21-5 (2nd place) in Russian league regular season. They just can't get back to Euroleague. I consider them as a top european club. Ejim's new club Unicaja is a Euroleague-level club, too. 21-13 (5th place) in ACB regular season. There are weaker clubs in Euroleague than these two.


The EuroLeague teams are clearly better, except maybe ASVEL. So are some EuroCup and FIBA Champions League teams.

I don't think a top 20-25 team in Europe (Malaga, UNICS) is a top level club. In European club basketball, a top level club is, objectively speaking, more like a top 12 team.

And Ejim has never played in EuroLeague, just in the secondary level leagues (EuroCup and FIBA Champions League).
And1Skip
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,981
And1: 5,873
Joined: Jun 08, 2003
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2623 » by And1Skip » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:06 pm

Wish more of our Canadian NBA ballers are like Khem Birch (mentality I mean and not about talking in 3rd person LOL)

Read on Twitter
?s=20
GreenGarlic
Ballboy
Posts: 16
And1: 2
Joined: Sep 01, 2019

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2624 » by GreenGarlic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:06 pm

Micic will probalby never be a a starter in NBA. Jovic will never get a chance to play there. He can not shoot. However, they are more useful than Kemba Walker at FIBA basketball. They cand defend a few positions. They are good and willing passers. The most important thing, they know their limits. The very opposite of clueless and defenseless Kemba Walker with all respect to his individual skills.

Allen Iverson was arguably the most skilled player in Europe in 2010. Why did he go to Besiktas (9.3 ppg, fg: .318, 3.0 apg in Euro Cup) instead of top European clubs? Why did top European clubs choose Micics and Jovics instead of one of the biggest names in basketball history?

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:hA, Micic is not better than Kemba Walker. This sounds just like Mirotic12 trol saying Goran Dragic would be average Euroleague player, right before Goran Dragic light up entire Eurobasket. All these All NBA players would figure it out and be dominant sooner or later, with very few exceptions.
If you are Fiba nation, what player you rather have, Micic or Kemba? Its not even close you take Kemba Walker.


You still greatly overrate Dragic. He had 2 good FIBA tournaments in his whole career. One was at home with refs help, and the other had literally every single thing go his team's way, like it was magic. He never did jack in EuroLeague either. In NBA, he's extremely inconsistent. He's a very good player, but he's miles away from how you talk about him. There is zero chance he would ever be dominant in EuroLeague, which let me remind you, is much higher competition level than 2017 EuroBasket, and is also an actual league system, and not a tournament, which has luck built into it as a major factor. Do you really think EuroLeague teams and coaches would not make adjustments to Dragic just recklessly driving into the lane all game long? After about a month, every single team in EuroLeague would have that completely shut down.

Even if somehow they didn't shut down his reckless drives - they would just start double teaming before any "domination" would ever be allowed. Spanoulis has been double teamed religiously since 2013 - no way in hell would the EuroLeague teams allow Goran Dragic to dominate the league. Not a chance in hell.

You told me for months that Doncic was at best Joe Ingles or Hedo Turkoglou, and how either of them would have done the same, or better than he did in EuroLeague. I kept telling you that was ridiculous and a total insult. I figured after this last season you would have grasped that you have an extreme underrating of everything related to the EuroLeague. You actually seemed to believe Joe Ingles could be what Doncic was in EuroLeague, which is actually unbelievable to me. But whatever man, keep on bringing up one good FIBA tournament from Dragic to base all your arguments on...

GreenGarlic wrote: Serbian point guards Micic and Jovic are better than Kemba Walker (All-NBA team) at FIBA basketball, despite the fact that most NBA fans have never heard of them. Kemba Walker is an undisciplined, undersized defensive liability. An awful combination for a point guard by FIBA/European basketball standards.


Micic is really good, but Jovic? JOVIC? Surely you are kidding right? Come on man, Jovic isn't that good at all.
User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 15,021
And1: 10,004
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2625 » by UcanUwill » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:18 pm

GreenGarlic wrote:Micic will probalby never be a a starter in NBA. Jovic will never get a chance to play there. He can not shoot. However, they are more useful than Kemba Walker at FIBA basketball. They cand defend a few positions. They are good and willing passers. The most important thing, they know their limits. The very opposite of clueless and defenseless Kemba Walker with all respect to his individual skills.

Allen Iverson was arguably the most skilled player in Europe in 2010. Why did he go to Besiktas (9.3 ppg, fg: .318, 3.0 apg in Euro Cup) instead of top European clubs? Why did top European clubs choose Micics and Jovics instead of one of the biggest names in basketball history?

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:hA, Micic is not better than Kemba Walker. This sounds just like Mirotic12 trol saying Goran Dragic would be average Euroleague player, right before Goran Dragic light up entire Eurobasket. All these All NBA players would figure it out and be dominant sooner or later, with very few exceptions.
If you are Fiba nation, what player you rather have, Micic or Kemba? Its not even close you take Kemba Walker.


You still greatly overrate Dragic. He had 2 good FIBA tournaments in his whole career. One was at home with refs help, and the other had literally every single thing go his team's way, like it was magic. He never did jack in EuroLeague either. In NBA, he's extremely inconsistent. He's a very good player, but he's miles away from how you talk about him. There is zero chance he would ever be dominant in EuroLeague, which let me remind you, is much higher competition level than 2017 EuroBasket, and is also an actual league system, and not a tournament, which has luck built into it as a major factor. Do you really think EuroLeague teams and coaches would not make adjustments to Dragic just recklessly driving into the lane all game long? After about a month, every single team in EuroLeague would have that completely shut down.

Even if somehow they didn't shut down his reckless drives - they would just start double teaming before any "domination" would ever be allowed. Spanoulis has been double teamed religiously since 2013 - no way in hell would the EuroLeague teams allow Goran Dragic to dominate the league. Not a chance in hell.

You told me for months that Doncic was at best Joe Ingles or Hedo Turkoglou, and how either of them would have done the same, or better than he did in EuroLeague. I kept telling you that was ridiculous and a total insult. I figured after this last season you would have grasped that you have an extreme underrating of everything related to the EuroLeague. You actually seemed to believe Joe Ingles could be what Doncic was in EuroLeague, which is actually unbelievable to me. But whatever man, keep on bringing up one good FIBA tournament from Dragic to base all your arguments on...

GreenGarlic wrote: Serbian point guards Micic and Jovic are better than Kemba Walker (All-NBA team) at FIBA basketball, despite the fact that most NBA fans have never heard of them. Kemba Walker is an undisciplined, undersized defensive liability. An awful combination for a point guard by FIBA/European basketball standards.


Micic is really good, but Jovic? JOVIC? Surely you are kidding right? Come on man, Jovic isn't that good at all.


Iverson was beyond washed at that point.
Matty
General Manager
Posts: 8,658
And1: 17,521
Joined: Dec 04, 2013
Location: Home of The Golden Asterisk Champions
     

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2626 » by Matty » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:31 pm

What was Stauskas' excuse this year? it seems like he gets a pass every summer.
GreenGarlic
Ballboy
Posts: 16
And1: 2
Joined: Sep 01, 2019

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2627 » by GreenGarlic » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:32 pm

Iverson was beyond washed at the age of 35. While Sabonis was in his prime (Euroleague MVP in 2004) at the age of 40, right?

UcanUwill wrote:Iverson was beyond washed at that point.
User avatar
Mattd97
Head Coach
Posts: 6,089
And1: 2,243
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Location: Toronto

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2628 » by Mattd97 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:34 pm

El Mas Chingon wrote:Oh ****, Le Doug went in on Barrett!

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/opinion/2019/09/03/why-change-must-start-at-the-top-after-canadas-fiba-world-cup-letdown.html

He mentions the fact that they put out a list not knowing who woukd show up and the preferential treatment.

He also mentions the fact that Nurse was hired and no one even knew the coaching position was open. I assumed I didn't know they were looking g for a coach cause I'm not on top of Basketball Canada.

Let's hope they make the necessary changes to the management of the program. For some reason I thought Glen Grunwald was the head honcho.

Time to blow it up!



One of Doug's only connections in basketball is Jay triano. He was furious when triano was let go and sent out completely illogical tweets claiming how great he was but how bad the program is (as if triano wasnt in charge?) So 1. Everyone including him knew they were searching for a coach and 2. His only reason for writing any of that is cause hes pissy they let triano go. Hes had literal years, decades, to write about Canada basketball's ineptitude and never has.
vergogna wrote:- game starts at 3.50
- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 15,021
And1: 10,004
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2629 » by UcanUwill » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:38 pm

GreenGarlic wrote:Iverson was beyond washed at the age of 35. While Sabonis was in his prime (Euroleague MVP in 2004) at the age of 40, right?

UcanUwill wrote:Iverson was beyond washed at that point.


Well, he was. he was terrible in Memphis and no team wanted him. Or you really think prime Iverson would be Turkish league scrub, like what is even your point?
User avatar
BilboBanginz
Senior
Posts: 651
And1: 567
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2630 » by BilboBanginz » Wed Sep 4, 2019 1:58 pm

Venezuela beat China just now, making Canada the only Americas team not to advance out of their group.
User avatar
Slo
Head Coach
Posts: 6,043
And1: 8,220
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Location: Slovenia
Contact:

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2631 » by Slo » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:14 pm

Yoooo why noone tell me Scola droped 10 years of age during the summer??? :o


Image
Dtown84
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,571
And1: 155
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2632 » by Dtown84 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:15 pm

BilboBanginz wrote:Venezuela beat China just now, making Canada the only Americas team not to advance out of their group.


Silver lining that means no matter what happens now Canada should be in the Olympic Qualifying tournament. Either by earning it, or being one of the two additional Americas teams.
frumble
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,338
And1: 655
Joined: Aug 23, 2012

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2633 » by frumble » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:22 pm

Venezuela, Argentina, Puerto Rico, the US, Brazil, and the Dominican Republic are all through to the second round.
Every team from the Americas but Canada.
User avatar
Mattd97
Head Coach
Posts: 6,089
And1: 2,243
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Location: Toronto

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2634 » by Mattd97 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:23 pm

BilboBanginz wrote:Venezuela beat China just now, making Canada the only Americas team not to advance out of their group.


I mean at this point all you can do is laugh
vergogna wrote:- game starts at 3.50
- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
User avatar
vi3t
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,861
And1: 1,133
Joined: Oct 14, 2006
 

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2635 » by vi3t » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:51 pm

:banghead:
And1Skip
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,981
And1: 5,873
Joined: Jun 08, 2003
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2636 » by And1Skip » Wed Sep 4, 2019 3:11 pm

Love the endorsement by Birch of Nurse as his coach, saying the experience has been worth it even though the results aren't there as a team.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/magics-birch-suiting-canada-endorsement-national-team/

The 26-year-old from Montreal and Cory Joseph are Canada’s only NBA players in China. And while the Canadians’ hopes of advancing were snuffed out with a loss Tuesday to Lithuania, Birch said the trip has been worth it.

"Great experience," Birch said after practice Wednesday. "Championship-level coaching and lots of confidence. I’m doing things I have never done in the NBA. That’s what a lot of guys don’t understand. Coach (Nick) Nurse gives you the confidence and freedom to do basically everything you want in the system you have here. I’m lucky."

What kinds of things?

"Shooting threes in the game. Dribbling the ball. Post-ups," Birch said.

The six-foot-nine Orlando Magic forward is handling the ball more than he ever has in his career.

"Yes, exactly," Birch said. "Coach Nurse gives you the freedom to do that stuff. A lot of guys say they want to stay home and work on their games, but there is no better way to do that than in an actual game and I’m doing that right now."
User avatar
duppyy
RealGM
Posts: 14,608
And1: 7,995
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Location: ???????, ??????
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2637 » by duppyy » Wed Sep 4, 2019 3:36 pm

I guess we will never be able to put together a good team, the "good" players only want to play in the olypmpics but don't want to put in the work or time to get there. Pathetic really.
User avatar
WaltFrazier
Analyst
Posts: 3,496
And1: 1,896
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Location: Ontario
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2638 » by WaltFrazier » Wed Sep 4, 2019 3:54 pm

FIBA and the NBA need to get together and create a time and space for a true World Cup the way the bigtime pro soccer leagues do. If they want to have a true WC, say every 4 years, along with an awesome Olympic tournament, they need to cooperate and make time maybe within the NBA season, so no players have excuses not to play other than injury
User avatar
TheDunc
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,845
And1: 837
Joined: Mar 08, 2009

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2639 » by TheDunc » Wed Sep 4, 2019 4:41 pm

And1Skip wrote:Love the endorsement by Birch of Nurse as his coach, saying the experience has been worth it even though the results aren't there as a team.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/magics-birch-suiting-canada-endorsement-national-team/

The 26-year-old from Montreal and Cory Joseph are Canada’s only NBA players in China. And while the Canadians’ hopes of advancing were snuffed out with a loss Tuesday to Lithuania, Birch said the trip has been worth it.

"Great experience," Birch said after practice Wednesday. "Championship-level coaching and lots of confidence. I’m doing things I have never done in the NBA. That’s what a lot of guys don’t understand. Coach (Nick) Nurse gives you the confidence and freedom to do basically everything you want in the system you have here. I’m lucky."

What kinds of things?

"Shooting threes in the game. Dribbling the ball. Post-ups," Birch said.

The six-foot-nine Orlando Magic forward is handling the ball more than he ever has in his career.

"Yes, exactly," Birch said. "Coach Nurse gives you the freedom to do that stuff. A lot of guys say they want to stay home and work on their games, but there is no better way to do that than in an actual game and I’m doing that right now."


Im really liking Birch, would like to see him on the raptors one day
Hungry
Freshman
Posts: 60
And1: 46
Joined: Feb 08, 2018

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2640 » by Hungry » Wed Sep 4, 2019 4:47 pm

WaltFrazier wrote:FIBA and the NBA need to get together and create a time and space for a true World Cup the way the bigtime pro soccer leagues do. If they want to have a true WC, say every 4 years, along with an awesome Olympic tournament, they need to cooperate and make time maybe within the NBA season, so no players have excuses not to play other than injury


My initial gut instinct would be that an in-season tournament would feature even worse participation what with rest/load management. I think moving the WC to the year before the Olympics was a huge mistake instead of the every 2 years for a major tournament. It's a lot to ask players for a 6 week commitment and then potentially do the same thing next year (I assume it would be a similar time commitment for Olympics?) in a more important tournament. On top of the players view it's not hard to envision some NBA teams nudging players away from doing back-to-back years, and if you had to choose which would you pick? Every two years is far easier to digest for both players and NBA teams, and as a fan 3 years is a long time to go between major tournaments (Eurobasket excluded I suppose).

One advantage of the new system is that the out of season qualifying windows probably make it easier to attract our NBA and high level European players. It's only 2 games, potentially in Canada and at least no huge timezone change worst case. The Dominican game in Toronto last year had to be a fairly easy sell for many players, for players with a home in or around Toronto it was a pretty light commitment.

They really need to go back to 2 years between Olympics and WC, this seems an absolute no-brainer. There's parts of the new system I like and think you could build on but overall it's not as good as the old system

Return to Toronto Raptors