ImageImageImageImageImage

Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

Moderators: Yuri Vaultin, Morris_Shatford, Patman, pbj, Rhettmatic, Duffman100, Alfred, DG88

User avatar
OakleyDokely
RealGM
Posts: 14,451
And1: 33,232
Joined: Aug 02, 2008
Location: 416
 

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2641 » by OakleyDokely » Wed Sep 4, 2019 4:59 pm

Read on Twitter
Darknemo2000
Veteran
Posts: 2,556
And1: 1,662
Joined: Dec 25, 2010
 

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2642 » by Darknemo2000 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:02 pm

frumble wrote:Venezuela, Argentina, Puerto Rico, the US, Brazil, and the Dominican Republic are all through to the second round.
Every team from the Americas but Canada.


How many of those teams had to face Australia and Lithuania?

I get what you are trying to say but its also true that Canada got the worst possible group.

I say its luck. Yeah you can say its FIBA rank more but I disagree with that. Australia ended up in the third Pot and still ended up in Death group. Same as Lithuania (second Pot), meaning though FIBA rank helps you move in better Pot during lottery its still luck based in the end.

Had Canada been competing with Argentina, Russia and Nigeria in group B as Pot 6 team we would be talking differently right now since I think Canada can beat any of those teams or at least have better chances than against Lithuania and Australia.
Kenter16
Ballboy
Posts: 26
And1: 13
Joined: Aug 16, 2019
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2643 » by Kenter16 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:17 pm

Darknemo2000 wrote:
frumble wrote:Venezuela, Argentina, Puerto Rico, the US, Brazil, and the Dominican Republic are all through to the second round.
Every team from the Americas but Canada.


How many of those teams had to face Australia and Lithuania?

I get what you are trying to say but its also true that Canada got the worst possible group.

I say its luck. Yeah you can say its FIBA rank more but I disagree with that. Australia ended up in the third Pot and still ended up in Death group. Same as Lithuania (second Pot), meaning though FIBA rank helps you move in better Pot during lottery its still luck based in the end.

Had Canada been competing with Argentina, Russia and Nigeria in group B as Pot 6 team we would be talking differently right now since I think Canada can beat any of those teams or at least have better chances than against Lithuania and Australia.


They couldn't be put in a pool with another America's team. That also played a part in the bad draw.
Kenter16
Ballboy
Posts: 26
And1: 13
Joined: Aug 16, 2019
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2644 » by Kenter16 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:32 pm

Read on Twitter



Nick Nurse had some great comments. He sounds committed and he wants answers. Hopefully he can get some answers and hopefully he can do a lot of recruiting this upcoming season.
Another factor to the bad turnout may be that Rowan Barrett got his job in late February and Nurse didn't get his until weeks before the tournament. Maybe having these guys around for a full year before the qualification tournament will help with recruiting. Who knows.
mojo13
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,726
And1: 1,309
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2645 » by mojo13 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:45 pm

Kenter16 wrote:
Read on Twitter



Nick Nurse had some great comments. He sounds committed and he wants answers. Hopefully he can get some answers and hopefully he can do a lot of recruiting this upcoming season.
Another factor to the bad turnout may be that Rowan Barrett got his job in late February and Nurse didn't get his until weeks before the tournament. Maybe having these guys around for a full year before the qualification tournament will help with recruiting. Who knows.


Barrett has been the acting GM since since 2015. I'm surprised anyone still thinks Nash was anything more than an non-involved figure head the last 3-4 years. Much of the blame here is on his shoulders.

The coaching change so late had to have hurt the turnout (another questionable move by Barrett)- at least Triano has a multi-year relationship that I think guys like Powell, SGA, Murray and TT would have had a harder time turning their back on than a brand new coach like Nurse. Even if Triano had a bad relationship with Wiggins - it seemed many of the other guys liked him.

Quotes like this shed more light on why guys like Andrew Nicholson, Dylan Ennis, Anthony Bennett or others might not have been involved. Seems like Canada Basketball really got caught w/ their pants down w/ the NBA defections & some really good players were never even pursued.
Mirotic12
Veteran
Posts: 2,629
And1: 1,000
Joined: Jun 29, 2014

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2646 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:48 pm

UcanUwil] wrote:Well, I said Doncic is Ingles or Turkoglu if he doesnt improve, witch by the way was a theme in Doncic debate forever, people always thought he is peaking, but he enters every new season tremendously improved. And yes, prime Hedo would set Euroleague on fire, he would easily be MVP material player, and I say this as Raptors fan aka Hedo hater.

But overall you so underrate NBA talent, its just a joke, I diubt you yourself believe half the things you say, or if you do your talent evaluation is severely lacking. You think EUroleague teams would shut down a guy who scores 20 points per game in the game, ha, dont make me laugh. Dragic main problem early was his inconsistent 3 point shooting, thats why he was suspect player at the beginning, but he turned that weakness into a strength few years ago and was absolute beast at his peak in 2017.


Prime Hedo being MVP of current EuroLeague is a joke to me. He had a horrible shot selection, horrible basketball IQ, and he was one of the worst decision makers / dumbest players ever. Him being an MVP of today's EuroLeague - to me he's one of the least likely NBA players that would ever be MVP in EuroLeague.

GreenGarlic wrote:Top clubs from top 3 national leagues are elite, even if they do not play in Euroleague. They are at Euroleague level. In my opinion.


Go look at the rosters of the EuroLeague teams. Other than ASVEL, they are all quite noticeable stronger than rosters of UNICS or Malaga, the current team Ejim is on. Most of the EuroLeague teams are considerably more loaded and talented.
mojo13
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,726
And1: 1,309
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2647 » by mojo13 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:55 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwil] wrote:Well, I said Doncic is Ingles or Turkoglu if he doesnt improve, witch by the way was a theme in Doncic debate forever, people always thought he is peaking, but he enters every new season tremendously improved. And yes, prime Hedo would set Euroleague on fire, he would easily be MVP material player, and I say this as Raptors fan aka Hedo hater.

But overall you so underrate NBA talent, its just a joke, I diubt you yourself believe half the things you say, or if you do your talent evaluation is severely lacking. You think EUroleague teams would shut down a guy who scores 20 points per game in the game, ha, dont make me laugh. Dragic main problem early was his inconsistent 3 point shooting, thats why he was suspect player at the beginning, but he turned that weakness into a strength few years ago and was absolute beast at his peak in 2017.


Prime Hedo being MVP of current EuroLeague is a joke to me. He had a horrible shot selection, horrible basketball IQ, and he was one of the worst decision makers / dumbest players ever. Him being an MVP of today's EuroLeague - to me he's one of the least likely NBA players that would ever be MVP in EuroLeague.

GreenGarlic wrote:Top clubs from top 3 national leagues are elite, even if they do not play in Euroleague. They are at Euroleague level. In my opinion.


Go look at the rosters of the EuroLeague teams. Other than ASVEL, they are all quite noticeable stronger than rosters of UNICS or Malaga, the current team Ejim is on. Most of the EuroLeague teams are considerably more loaded and talented.


You guys may want to consider taking this to the International Basketball board. Please.
Mirotic12
Veteran
Posts: 2,629
And1: 1,000
Joined: Jun 29, 2014

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2648 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:58 pm

GreenGarlic wrote:Micic will probalby never be a a starter in NBA. Jovic will never get a chance to play there. He can not shoot. However, they are more useful than Kemba Walker at FIBA basketball. They cand defend a few positions. They are good and willing passers. The most important thing, they know their limits. The very opposite of clueless and defenseless Kemba Walker with all respect to his individual skills.

Allen Iverson was arguably the most skilled player in Europe in 2010. Why did he go to Besiktas (9.3 ppg, fg: .318, 3.0 apg in Euro Cup) instead of top European clubs? Why did top European clubs choose Micics and Jovics instead of one of the biggest names in basketball history?


I don't have an issue with Micic to Walker comparison. I really like Micic - he's like a better version of Jaric. But Stefan Jovic.......he's nowhere near as good as Walker is. I've been watching Jovic play for a long time, and I wouldn't even want him on a EuroLeague roster if I was making a team.

He's got good size for a point guard (probably like 6-6, 6-7, or something), and he's a very steady player. But he offers just about nothing in terms of creation, scoring, individual talent, shooting, and he can't really break down anyone off the dribble. He's in that class of European point guards of Stefan Markovic and Vangelis Mantzaris - nothing any big EuroLeague team should really want as a rotation player.

I know he's had tons of injury problems through his career, so maybe if not for that he could have been better. He's pretty much a typical EuroCup level player for me.

WaltFrazier wrote:FIBA and the NBA need to get together and create a time and space for a true World Cup the way the bigtime pro soccer leagues do. If they want to have a true WC, say every 4 years, along with an awesome Olympic tournament, they need to cooperate and make time maybe within the NBA season, so no players have excuses not to play other than injury


It's impossible to have two world tournaments and make it work properly. For the World Cup to work, the Olympics has to be scrapped. In football, no one cares about the Olympics, because it's an under-23 tournament.

Americans seem obsessed with the Olympics in basketball - but it makes no sense why. The Olympics is a joke tournament, with just 12 teams, and half of them are just awful. Football wouldn't ever have come up with such a stupid system as FIBA did.

There are rumors FIBA is finally going to scrap the Olympics as a senior event, and make it an under-23 tournament. The problem is the last time they floated the idea (with Stern's backing) US media threw a hissy fit and they reversed it. It's really stupid. There should just be the World Cup every 4 years, with the best players, and the chances of best players to play in qualifying, like it is with FIFA. The Olympics nonsense just makes the whole thing amateurish, with a joke level Olympics competition, and then a World Cup that USA and now Canada treats like a recreation activity.

There is progress though on this, as now FIBA and NBA seem pretty clear in admitting they made a mistake by putting NBA players in the Olympics. So it's just a matter of time before it happens.
Mirotic12
Veteran
Posts: 2,629
And1: 1,000
Joined: Jun 29, 2014

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2649 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 6:11 pm

Darknemo2000 wrote:How many of those teams had to face Australia and Lithuania?

I get what you are trying to say but its also true that Canada got the worst possible group.

I say its luck. Yeah you can say its FIBA rank more but I disagree with that. Australia ended up in the third Pot and still ended up in Death group. Same as Lithuania (second Pot), meaning though FIBA rank helps you move in better Pot during lottery its still luck based in the end.

Had Canada been competing with Argentina, Russia and Nigeria in group B as Pot 6 team we would be talking differently right now since I think Canada can beat any of those teams or at least have better chances than against Lithuania and Australia.


I am pretty sure this Canada team couldn't beat Argentina at this tournament. I give Russia a 60/40 edge also.
User avatar
Mattd97
Head Coach
Posts: 6,089
And1: 2,242
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Location: Toronto

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2650 » by Mattd97 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:06 pm

mojo13 wrote:
Kenter16 wrote:
Read on Twitter



Nick Nurse had some great comments. He sounds committed and he wants answers. Hopefully he can get some answers and hopefully he can do a lot of recruiting this upcoming season.
Another factor to the bad turnout may be that Rowan Barrett got his job in late February and Nurse didn't get his until weeks before the tournament. Maybe having these guys around for a full year before the qualification tournament will help with recruiting. Who knows.


Barrett has been the acting GM since since 2015. I'm surprised anyone still thinks Nash was anything more than an non-involved figure head the last 3-4 years. Much of the blame here is on his shoulders.

The coaching change so late had to have hurt the turnout (another questionable move by Barrett)- at least Triano has a multi-year relationship that I think guys like Powell, SGA, Murray and TT would have had a harder time turning their back on than a brand new coach like Nurse. Even if Triano had a bad relationship with Wiggins - it seemed many of the other guys liked him.

Quotes like this shed more light on why guys like Andrew Nicholson, Dylan Ennis, Anthony Bennett or others might not have been involved. Seems like Canada Basketball really got caught w/ their pants down w/ the NBA defections & some really good players were never even pursued.


Between all 3 points here and telling people to take their European basketball discussions elsewhere, +1 seems like way too small an effort to show my praise
vergogna wrote:- game starts at 3.50
- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
User avatar
BilboBanginz
Senior
Posts: 651
And1: 567
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2651 » by BilboBanginz » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:14 pm

Read on Twitter


Wigginton to Minnesota. He has an outside chance at one of their two-ways.
PoundTown
Pro Prospect
Posts: 984
And1: 664
Joined: Aug 09, 2014
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2652 » by PoundTown » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:35 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
Read on Twitter


What a boss! Thanks Khem!

He has a lot more uncertainty than many of these other guys. Guys like Powell and Thompson have already cashed in. Murray has cashed in. I'm less disapointed with him because he was at camp. But for Powell, his excuse was wanting to be ready for camp. You are on an average team and have made over 15 - 20 million in your career already. If it were me in this position, I'd be like Khem and I'd be bugging the other NBA guys I was close with.
frumble
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,338
And1: 655
Joined: Aug 23, 2012

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2653 » by frumble » Wed Sep 4, 2019 9:19 pm

BilboBanginz wrote:Wigginton to Minnesota. He has an outside chance at one of their two-ways.


Does Min have an available two-way?
Double Bubble
Rookie
Posts: 1,089
And1: 905
Joined: Mar 02, 2014
Location: spooning

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2654 » by Double Bubble » Wed Sep 4, 2019 9:46 pm

Happy for wiggington. Will be a great opportunity for him, could one day become a poor mans d rose so perfect place for him to jump off.
User avatar
Too Late Crew
Head Coach
Posts: 6,273
And1: 729
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2655 » by Too Late Crew » Wed Sep 4, 2019 9:50 pm

GreenGarlic wrote:Iverson was beyond washed at the age of 35. While Sabonis was in his prime (Euroleague MVP in 2004) at the age of 40, right?

UcanUwill wrote:Iverson was beyond washed at that point.

Age 40 Sabonis was still 7 feet 300 plus pounds and super skilled.
Iverson at 35 was 5 foot 10 and 150 lbs who had lost all his quickness. Everyone knows that bigs can play longer than tiny guards.
Iverson was washed up he simply couldn’t do any of the things that made him great in his early years.
User avatar
galeon110
Analyst
Posts: 3,369
And1: 480
Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Location: Toronto

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2656 » by galeon110 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 10:11 pm

mojo13 wrote:Barrett has been the acting GM since since 2015. I'm surprised anyone still thinks Nash was anything more than an non-involved figure head the last 3-4 years. Much of the blame here is on his shoulders.


Can I be the first to say that Steve Nash was a piece of **** representing Canada both on a player's level and as an ambassador ala Team Canada. Dude was the token Canadian player because he was basically the only one.

Barely repped Team Canada when he was a player, used the Raps as leverage over Lakers to milk out his last contract, consulted the GSW post-retirement, and did jack **** for the national team during his tenure as GM..... If anyone is to blame for setting a bad example for this gen in terms of being proud and representing this country on the international stage, it's this schmuck.
Image
User avatar
Jstock12
General Manager
Posts: 8,678
And1: 15,473
Joined: Jun 24, 2012

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2657 » by Jstock12 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 10:34 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwil] wrote:Well, I said Doncic is Ingles or Turkoglu if he doesnt improve, witch by the way was a theme in Doncic debate forever, people always thought he is peaking, but he enters every new season tremendously improved. And yes, prime Hedo would set Euroleague on fire, he would easily be MVP material player, and I say this as Raptors fan aka Hedo hater.

But overall you so underrate NBA talent, its just a joke, I diubt you yourself believe half the things you say, or if you do your talent evaluation is severely lacking. You think EUroleague teams would shut down a guy who scores 20 points per game in the game, ha, dont make me laugh. Dragic main problem early was his inconsistent 3 point shooting, thats why he was suspect player at the beginning, but he turned that weakness into a strength few years ago and was absolute beast at his peak in 2017.


Prime Hedo being MVP of current EuroLeague is a joke to me. He had a horrible shot selection, horrible basketball IQ, and he was one of the worst decision makers / dumbest players ever. Him being an MVP of today's EuroLeague - to me he's one of the least likely NBA players that would ever be MVP in EuroLeague.

GreenGarlic wrote:Top clubs from top 3 national leagues are elite, even if they do not play in Euroleague. They are at Euroleague level. In my opinion.


Go look at the rosters of the EuroLeague teams. Other than ASVEL, they are all quite noticeable stronger than rosters of UNICS or Malaga, the current team Ejim is on. Most of the EuroLeague teams are considerably more loaded and talented.


Luka has a higher ceiling and is already almost as good as Joe, but Ingles is currently still better than rookie Doncic, imo. The only difference is Ingles is not 20 and isn't given free reign to do whatever he pleases. But he's a super role player and makes every team he's on better.
joseph227
Senior
Posts: 570
And1: 1,322
Joined: Jan 03, 2015
     

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2658 » by joseph227 » Thu Sep 5, 2019 12:04 am

galeon110 wrote:
mojo13 wrote:Barrett has been the acting GM since since 2015. I'm surprised anyone still thinks Nash was anything more than an non-involved figure head the last 3-4 years. Much of the blame here is on his shoulders.


Can I be the first to say that Steve Nash was a piece of **** representing Canada both on a player's level and as an ambassador ala Team Canada. Dude was the token Canadian player because he was basically the only one.

Barely repped Team Canada when he was a player, used the Raps as leverage over Lakers to milk out his last contract, consulted the GSW post-retirement, and did jack **** for the national team during his tenure as GM..... If anyone is to blame for setting a bad example for this gen in terms of being proud and representing this country on the international stage, it's this schmuck.


Um I'm pretty sure Nash showed up for every international event until he was 30.
:D
:D
:D
frumble
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,338
And1: 655
Joined: Aug 23, 2012

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2659 » by frumble » Thu Sep 5, 2019 3:41 am

galeon110 wrote:Barely repped Team Canada when he was a player, ...



joseph227 wrote:Um I'm pretty sure Nash showed up for every international event until he was 30.



The truth is somewhere in between. He did more than barely rep Team Canada, but he also passed on several international events before age 30.
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 39,245
And1: 7,978
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2660 » by Calinks » Thu Sep 5, 2019 5:55 am

So that's it? Canada's out? ****
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.

Return to Toronto Raptors