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Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2761 » by Mattd97 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:55 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:
mojo13 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:You guys have been speculating about the four 2020 FIBA World Olympics Qualifiers......

European media is reporting that it will cost national federations €5.3 million euros to host a tournament. So far, both Lithuania and Greece have filed their applications to host.

Also, Greek media has been saying that Giannis won't play for Greece next summer.


I didn't see anything about either of those countries filing to host. Both announced they have interest in hosting - but now we are hearing the expected costs that FIBA is trying to bleed out of federations. It seems the cost may be too much for either federation. Lithuania doesn't have that deep pockets according to their fan base. Greece doesn't magically have that money either and they will need big time government support.

Actual application deadline is sometime in November. My guess is they extend that...

Read on Twitter
?s=20


So it's actually 3 million total according to Urbonas to host one of these qualifiers ( I think you made an honest mistake Mirotic and added the two figures together ).

Canada basketball would require MLSE/ OVO ( Drake) / and the Federal government to back a qualifier bid. The big question do you get sponsorship or TV rights for the $ 3 million from Fiba. I suppose if you did this in the GTA and you had a team with a large Canadian expatriate fan base , the Philippines , China or Greece you may do alright at the box office selling tickets . Still given our history I doubt we can pull this off - hopefully somebody proves me wrong.

As for Giannis he can sign a super max deal early in July 2020 ( $ 247 million/ 5 years ) so I can see his hesitation about playing for Greece and perhaps blowing his golden financial ticket.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/bucks-gm-says-giannis-antetokounmpo-will-get-supermax-offer-i-think-hell-be-a-buck-for-a-long-time/


Durant blew out his Achilles and still got a max. Sure there is risk, but giannis would need a career ender to not get signed. And even then he might if it's not 100%
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2762 » by TrueNorth31 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:26 pm

Mattd97 wrote:
TrueNorth31 wrote:
mojo13 wrote:
I didn't see anything about either of those countries filing to host. Both announced they have interest in hosting - but now we are hearing the expected costs that FIBA is trying to bleed out of federations. It seems the cost may be too much for either federation. Lithuania doesn't have that deep pockets according to their fan base. Greece doesn't magically have that money either and they will need big time government support.

Actual application deadline is sometime in November. My guess is they extend that...

Read on Twitter
?s=20


So it's actually 3 million total according to Urbonas to host one of these qualifiers ( I think you made an honest mistake Mirotic and added the two figures together ).

Canada basketball would require MLSE/ OVO ( Drake) / and the Federal government to back a qualifier bid. The big question do you get sponsorship or TV rights for the $ 3 million from Fiba. I suppose if you did this in the GTA and you had a team with a large Canadian expatriate fan base , the Philippines , China or Greece you may do alright at the box office selling tickets . Still given our history I doubt we can pull this off - hopefully somebody proves me wrong.

As for Giannis he can sign a super max deal early in July 2020 ( $ 247 million/ 5 years ) so I can see his hesitation about playing for Greece and perhaps blowing his golden financial ticket.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/bucks-gm-says-giannis-antetokounmpo-will-get-supermax-offer-i-think-hell-be-a-buck-for-a-long-time/


Durant blew out his Achilles and still got a max. Sure there is risk, but giannis would need a career ender to not get signed. And even then he might if it's not 100%


That's certainly true - I'm just not sure every guy is willing to risk that amount. Durant also has a cushion of making significantly more in endorsement money. The money these guys make is crazy and they should probably just do what they want - still their agents who get 4% ( and about 10% for endorsements) of the cut tend to lobby for caution.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2763 » by Mattd97 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:29 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:
That's certainly true - I'm just not sure every guy is willing to risk that amount. Durant also has a cushion of making significantly more in endorsement money. The money these guys make is crazy and they should probably just do what they want - still their agents who get 4% ( and about 10% for endorsements) of the cut tend to lobby for caution.


Dont really disagree. Just crazy to think it no longer really matters if these guys get hurt, they're taken care of at that level of stardom
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- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2764 » by BilboBanginz » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:58 pm

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2765 » by steadysoul » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:15 pm

The new Rankings are out. Canada is now ranked 21st. Falling Euro teams largely the why.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2766 » by mojo13 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:15 pm

Official list of the 24 Qualifier teams is now set. If they drew the pots on FIBA ranking ONLY it would look like:

If FIBA organized the 4 Qualifier tournaments by rank only - the Pots would be:
POT1: SER, GRE, LTU, RUS
POT2: CZE, BRA, ITA, POL
POT3: CRO, TUR, SLO, PR
POT4: GER, DR, VEN, CAN
POT5: NZ, MEX, CHN, KOR
POT6: ANG, TUN, SEN, URU

But certainly changes for hosts & geo-balancing are probable. It would be awful FIBA-like to give host counties the POT 1 seeding (Hi China!).

But if they went just by ranking, I'd be happy to avoid Serbia and Lithuania. Otherwise if just a few of the right guys show we could be favored over anyone else.



And the dates for the FIBA Qualifiers were changed from July 6-12 to June 23-28, 2020.

So expect no Free Agents - Dillon Brooks, Thompson and maybe even Olynyk (player option). Any one else?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2767 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:00 pm

mojo13 wrote:I didn't see anything about either of those countries filing to host. Both announced they have interest in hosting - but now we are hearing the expected costs that FIBA is trying to bleed out of federations. It seems the cost may be too much for either federation. Lithuania doesn't have that deep pockets according to their fan base. Greece doesn't magically have that money either and they will need big time government support.

Actual application deadline is sometime in November. My guess is they extend that...

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Let me guess, the trolls at interbasket...........

As usual, they have no clue what they are talking about. Greek Basketball Federation has an annual budget of €5 million euros just for hosting tournaments. It's zero problem for them financially. People saying they don't have the money to host the tournament are outright trolling.

Greek federation has a deal with FIBA, where they host a certain number of tournaments. I can't remember the exact terms, but it's something like at least 3 FIBA tournaments hosted in Greece every 5 years. That might not be the exact terms, but it's something like that. They have €5 million euros annually for the federation to host FIBA tournaments. I think it comes from sponsorship money.

So people saying they can't host that tournament for money reasons are completely full of BS.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2768 » by Mattd97 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:21 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
mojo13 wrote:I didn't see anything about either of those countries filing to host. Both announced they have interest in hosting - but now we are hearing the expected costs that FIBA is trying to bleed out of federations. It seems the cost may be too much for either federation. Lithuania doesn't have that deep pockets according to their fan base. Greece doesn't magically have that money either and they will need big time government support.

Actual application deadline is sometime in November. My guess is they extend that...

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Let me guess, the trolls at interbasket...........

As usual, they have no clue what they are talking about. Greek Basketball Federation has an annual budget of €5 million euros just for hosting tournaments. It's zero problem for them financially. People saying they don't have the money to host the tournament are outright trolling.

Greek federation has a deal with FIBA, where they host a certain number of tournaments. I can't remember the exact terms, but it's something like at least 3 FIBA tournaments hosted in Greece every 5 years. That might not be the exact terms, but it's something like that. They have €5 million euros annually for the federation to host FIBA tournaments. I think it comes from sponsorship money.

So people saying they can't host that tournament for money reasons are completely full of BS.


Great use of money, since we all know Greece is in a really strong financial situation as a country
vergogna wrote:- game starts at 3.50
- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2769 » by TrueNorth31 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:36 pm

Mattd97 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
mojo13 wrote:I didn't see anything about either of those countries filing to host. Both announced they have interest in hosting - but now we are hearing the expected costs that FIBA is trying to bleed out of federations. It seems the cost may be too much for either federation. Lithuania doesn't have that deep pockets according to their fan base. Greece doesn't magically have that money either and they will need big time government support.

Actual application deadline is sometime in November. My guess is they extend that...

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Let me guess, the trolls at interbasket...........

As usual, they have no clue what they are talking about. Greek Basketball Federation has an annual budget of €5 million euros just for hosting tournaments. It's zero problem for them financially. People saying they don't have the money to host the tournament are outright trolling.

Greek federation has a deal with FIBA, where they host a certain number of tournaments. I can't remember the exact terms, but it's something like at least 3 FIBA tournaments hosted in Greece every 5 years. That might not be the exact terms, but it's something like that. They have €5 million euros annually for the federation to host FIBA tournaments. I think it comes from sponsorship money.

So people saying they can't host that tournament for money reasons are completely full of BS.


Great use of money, since we all know Greece is in a really strong financial situation as a country


If Mirotic is correct - this is money generated by the Greek Basketball Federation , not the government.

Using money from sponsorship deals due to the relative popularity of the sport in Greece is entirely appropriate. Canada Basketball should be so lucky.

I wonder if they'll give the first seeds first crack at hosting ? Fiba also seems to benignly look at countries that have hosting experience ( e.g. Greece in the 2019 World U19 tournament ). Also Fiba certainly sees China as a giant cash cow -so somehow I think they'll be a host ( China also have access to massive government resources by the Communist government that they use to promote the country ).

We'll see if there is even a Canadian bid ?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2770 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:54 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:That's certainly true - I'm just not sure every guy is willing to risk that amount. Durant also has a cushion of making significantly more in endorsement money. The money these guys make is crazy and they should probably just do what they want - still their agents who get 4% ( and about 10% for endorsements) of the cut tend to lobby for caution.


Greek media had several articles that strongly implied he had told the reporters that he wouldn't play with Greece again until maybe 2023 or 2024. They also implied it was because the Bucks didn't want him to play with Greece again at all.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2771 » by mojo13 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
TrueNorth31 wrote:That's certainly true - I'm just not sure every guy is willing to risk that amount. Durant also has a cushion of making significantly more in endorsement money. The money these guys make is crazy and they should probably just do what they want - still their agents who get 4% ( and about 10% for endorsements) of the cut tend to lobby for caution.


Greek media had several articles that strongly implied he had told the reporters that he wouldn't play with Greece again until maybe 2023 or 2024. They also implied it was because the Bucks didn't want him to play with Greece again at all.



Don't be bitter because you got booted off the Interbasket forums. We love you here.

Come one, come all!



My guess is Giannis is not too thrilled about the idea of playing FIBA again considering how it has gone so far. And I am not sure I'd want to play FIBA again either if I was Giannis. His love of FIBA is reminiscent of Tim Duncan circa 2004.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2772 » by mojo13 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:10 pm

It is the time of the year for the mock drafts to start showing up.
Canadians Karim Mane and AJ Lawson are placed at 23 and 28 respectively on the lastest ESPN Mock Draft. But no Nembhard.

I get that Mane's physical profile is so intriguing but he isn't half the PG Nembhard is right now and I can't help getting Emmanuel Akot vibes from Mane. Or maybe at best Luguentz Dort.

Mane supposedly had a chance to play in the Australian NBL as part of their Next Stars program that Lamelo Ball, RJ Hampton and a couple other prospects are doing (looks like a great program). Mane decided to stick to Quebec high school ball for another year which doesn't seem like it would help him much. Perhaps it is a signal that he is going the NCAA route rather than straight to the NBA. Top programs seem interested in Mane including Kentucky and Gonzaga.


Speaking of Akot - for those who were not following he transferred to Boise St. and due to the shenanigans of Sean Miller and Arizona, BSU is is attempting to get a waiver from the NCAA making him eligible to play this season. Abu Kigab who also transferred to Boise St is eligible to play late December I believe.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2773 » by BilboBanginz » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:31 pm

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2774 » by TheFutureMM » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:32 am

mojo13 wrote:It is the time of the year for the mock drafts to start showing up.
Canadians Karim Mane and AJ Lawson are placed at 23 and 28 respectively on the lastest ESPN Mock Draft. But no Nembhard.

I get that Mane's physical profile is so intriguing but he isn't half the PG Nembhard is right now and I can't help getting Emmanuel Akot vibes from Mane. Or maybe at best Luguentz Dort.

Mane supposedly had a chance to play in the Australian NBL as part of their Next Stars program that Lamelo Ball, RJ Hampton and a couple other prospects are doing (looks like a great program). Mane decided to stick to Quebec high school ball for another year which doesn't seem like it would help him much. Perhaps it is a signal that he is going the NCAA route rather than straight to the NBA. Top programs seem interested in Mane including Kentucky and Gonzaga.


Speaking of Akot - for those who were not following he transferred to Boise St. and due to the shenanigans of Sean Miller and Arizona, BSU is is attempting to get a waiver from the NCAA making him eligible to play this season. Abu Kigab who also transferred to Boise St is eligible to play late December I believe.


While I can't believe Mane stayed in Quebec High School (from a development perspective), I do get why he may have chose to do it. Looking at what guys like Thon, Simons, and Bazley got away with, it honestly doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world to just ride it out and get drafted in the early to mid 20s. As you just mentioned, worst case, if he doesn't have a first round promise, he can just hop to a solid D1 school for a year or two.

Still blows me away that AJ Lawson is roughly the same age (little bit younger) with a year of college ball under his belt and what is shaping up to be another year but as one of the focal points of the offense while Mane will be doing a 5th year in Quebec...
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2775 » by PoundTown » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:35 am

mojo13 wrote:Official list of the 24 Qualifier teams is now set. If they drew the pots on FIBA ranking ONLY it would look like:

If FIBA organized the 4 Qualifier tournaments by rank only - the Pots would be:
POT1: SER, GRE, LTU, RUS
POT2: CZE, BRA, ITA, POL
POT3: CRO, TUR, SLO, PR
POT4: GER, DR, VEN, CAN
POT5: NZ, MEX, CHN, KOR
POT6: ANG, TUN, SEN, URU

But certainly changes for hosts & geo-balancing are probable. It would be awful FIBA-like to give host counties the POT 1 seeding (Hi China!).

But if they went just by ranking, I'd be happy to avoid Serbia and Lithuania. Otherwise if just a few of the right guys show we could be favored over anyone else.



And the dates for the FIBA Qualifiers were changed from July 6-12 to June 23-28, 2020.

So expect no Free Agents - Dillon Brooks, Thompson and maybe even Olynyk (player option). Any one else?


If we got Kelly and Jamal added to the group we already had there this year, I believe we could qualify. I’d probably expect RJ to play as well. Serbia would definitely be worrisome, but think our group has a good chance against the rest.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2776 » by BilboBanginz » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:37 pm

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So with Simi signed, is that it for Canadians this offseason? Him and Wigginton were the last remaining I believe.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2777 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:17 pm

An official of the Greek Basketball Federation clarified the situation with Naz Mitrou-Long. Mitrou-Long has apparently committed to play with Greece's national team program. However, despite having the right to be a natural born Greek citizen at birth (Greece has the same laws as USA, that being born to a parent with citizenship grants you citizenship), FIBA will not allow him to count as a Greek player.

FIBA evidently changed their nationality rules a year ago, and made it so that even if your country grants natural born citizenship at birth (like Greece and USA for example), you cannot count as a natural player under FIBA rules, unless you were physically in that country and officially registered your citizenship before you turned 16.

Since Mitrou-Long didn't do that before he turned 16, he cannot count as a Greek player. The rules change was also apparently retroactive, supposedly going back to 2010. So the following natural birth right Greek citizenship players (under Greek law) can't be counted as natural players in FIBA tournaments anymore:

Naz Mitrou-Long
Elijah Mitrou-Long (Naz's brother)
Tyler Dorsey
Zach Auguste
Michael Bramos

Nick Calathes and Kosta Koufos also couldn't be counted as a Greek players either, under the rules change, since they were not registered by age 16 (Calathes was 19 and Koufos was 18). But they were outside of the retroactive time period going back to 2010, so because of that they can still count as Greek players in FIBA competitions.

So Greece can only have one of these players on their rosters now under FIBA rules, since teams are only allowed to have one naturalized player. So Greece would have to choose just one of the Mitrou-Long brothers, Dorsey, Auguste, Bramos. Greece evidently is also considering not using any of them, since up until now they didn't ever allow any naturalized players, and now these players are considered naturalized. For example, Peja Stojakovic and Rony Seikaly both wanted to play with Greece instead of FR Yugoslavia (Peja) and USA (Seikaly), but the Greek federation wouldn't even allow players like that to join the national team, because the federation didn't allow naturalized players, and Peja and Seikaly were really pissed off about it then, and still are.

So there is some question if any of them can play for Greece now. Although the federation official did say that if the federation changes their rules and allows for naturalized players, that Dorsey should have precedent over the other players, because of his commitment to the national program as a youth. They also clarified that no naturalized players that don't have natural born Greek birth rights under Greek law will be allowed in the national team.

So evidently, Mitrou-Long committed to play with Greece, but recent FIBA rules changes have made it complicated for him to actually do so. If the federation does change the rules, and allows for naturalized players, then I would guess Mitrou-Long would be the second choice after Dorsey, or maybe the third choice after Dorsey and Auguste.

FIBA also changed the rules to where these natural birth rights Greek players that were born outside of Greece won't count as Greek players in the Greek League and Greek Cup, unless they were playing in Greek competitions by the age of 14. So maybe that's the reason why Mitrou-Long never signed with Olympiacos last year, even though reports said he had agreed with them. The rules change probably ended that.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2778 » by ItsDanger » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:37 pm

Hopefully Nembhard stays unranked and we can get him, he looks like an ideal backup PG.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2779 » by PoundTown » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:00 pm

ItsDanger wrote:Hopefully Nembhard stays unranked and we can get him, he looks like an ideal backup PG.


I'm confident that if you see him healthy next year he will be a 25 - 40 type slotted pick in next year's draft. Does a lot of things really well, nothing great. Has great size and is steady. Like you said, solid backup with added bonus he fits excellently in a two point guard line up with his size. Ideal third guard.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2780 » by mojo13 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:43 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:An official of the Greek Basketball Federation clarified the situation with Naz Mitrou-Long. Mitrou-Long has apparently committed to play with Greece's national team program. However, despite having the right to be a natural born Greek citizen at birth (Greece has the same laws as USA, that being born to a parent with citizenship grants you citizenship), FIBA will not allow him to count as a Greek player.

FIBA evidently changed their nationality rules a year ago, and made it so that even if your country grants natural born citizenship at birth (like Greece and USA for example), you cannot count as a natural player under FIBA rules, unless you were physically in that country and officially registered your citizenship before you turned 16.

Since Mitrou-Long didn't do that before he turned 16, he cannot count as a Greek player. The rules change was also apparently retroactive, supposedly going back to 2010. So the following natural birth right Greek citizenship players (under Greek law) can't be counted as natural players in FIBA tournaments anymore:

Naz Mitrou-Long
Elijah Mitrou-Long (Naz's brother)
Tyler Dorsey
Zach Auguste
Michael Bramos

Nick Calathes and Kosta Koufos also couldn't be counted as a Greek players either, under the rules change, since they were not registered by age 16 (Calathes was 19 and Koufos was 18). But they were outside of the retroactive time period going back to 2010, so because of that they can still count as Greek players in FIBA competitions.

So Greece can only have one of these players on their rosters now under FIBA rules, since teams are only allowed to have one naturalized player. So Greece would have to choose just one of the Mitrou-Long brothers, Dorsey, Auguste, Bramos. Greece evidently is also considering not using any of them, since up until now they didn't ever allow any naturalized players, and now these players are considered naturalized. For example, Peja Stojakovic and Rony Seikaly both wanted to play with Greece instead of FR Yugoslavia (Peja) and USA (Seikaly), but the Greek federation wouldn't even allow players like that to join the national team, because the federation didn't allow naturalized players, and Peja and Seikaly were really pissed off about it then, and still are.

So there is some question if any of them can play for Greece now. Although the federation official did say that if the federation changes their rules and allows for naturalized players, that Dorsey should have precedent over the other players, because of his commitment to the national program as a youth. They also clarified that no naturalized players that don't have natural born Greek birth rights under Greek law will be allowed in the national team.

So evidently, Mitrou-Long committed to play with Greece, but recent FIBA rules changes have made it complicated for him to actually do so. If the federation does change the rules, and allows for naturalized players, then I would guess Mitrou-Long would be the second choice after Dorsey, or maybe the third choice after Dorsey and Auguste.

FIBA also changed the rules to where these natural birth rights Greek players that were born outside of Greece won't count as Greek players in the Greek League and Greek Cup, unless they were playing in Greek competitions by the age of 14. So maybe that's the reason why Mitrou-Long never signed with Olympiacos last year, even though reports said he had agreed with them. The rules change probably ended that.



Makes sense but I thought this was known for a while. This has been the battle the Philippines has be waging with FIBA for years over Clarkson. They have been trying to get them to waive the "passport/citizenship by 16" rule so he wouldn't be considered naturalized and they could still have Blatche or some other mercenary there as well.

These kids really should have that citizenship and passport secured by 16. Otherwise there is just too much of this shadiness with countries offering kids citizenship with really loose ties such as great grandparents - it becomes clear this is only happening for basketball reasons.

If anyone cares this doesn't apply to Brandon Clarke, Trey Lyles(both born in Canada), or Kyle Wiltjer who secured citizenship and passport well before 16. Nor does it impact Brazdeikis who was born in Lithuania. Not sure if it would impact anyone else.

However I wonder if we could ever naturalize someone - perhaps Nurse can convince one of his long term Raptors to jump on board.

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