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Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3701 » by WaltFrazier » Fri Jan 1, 2021 10:34 pm

In a mythical hypothetical tournament where all Canadian players wanted to play, would RJ Barret even be in the 12 man roster? He was such a non-factor last night.

Tough situation with his dad GMing the team. But then they will never all play on the same court together anyway.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3702 » by mojo13 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 1:35 am

Hoo boy...RJ is 0/21 from 3 in the last four games.

He isn’t in my top 12 right now and never has been...I’m not sure if many people around here agree with us.

The shooting isn’t there, the finishing isn’t there, the shot selection isn’t there. He’s plays like he thinks he is much better than he is. That hasn’t worked too well since high school. He’s still young but last year was telling and this season hasn’t been a good start either.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3703 » by Hair Canada » Sat Jan 2, 2021 5:20 am

Well, this deserves some pondering. But if the championship were to start tomorrow and everyone would really show up, then I'm with you.

If you think guards, I'd definitely rather have Jamal, SGA, CoJo, Brooks, and Pangos as creators, but possibly even someone like NAW or Dylan Ennis, who would know their place and wouldn't try to play heros.

So I think I'd consider RJ only as a wing at this point. And there I would definitely take Dort before him, but also Brooks and Wiggins. And if I really have these, then probably also one of our European guys (Pierre? Scrubb?)

The one saving grace for RJ this year is his defense, which I think has gotten noticeably better. So if he can buy into a role of energy defender and opportunistic scorer from the bench, I might still give him a look.

But we need to also remember that there's recency bias going on here, as he's looked bad to start the season. Let's wait a month or two and see how things look like.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3704 » by KL78192020 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:03 am

whose committed to playing next year?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3705 » by Kenter16 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 4:08 pm

RJ will be on the team, no matter what, IMO.
It was about a week ago the world was singing his praises. The narrative was 'being snubbed for the all rookie team has motivated him'. He has struggled for the last few games. It will pass, he has the raw talent to succeed.
For both good and bad he is on the Knicks. Bad is that he has no help, no point guard, nobody who can create and dish and nobody who can shoot. The good is that even when he struggles he will get 35+ minutes a game and will continue to grow.
He plays Indiana tonight, last time he played them he had 26/8/5. He has really improved his stroke as well. He is shooting 78% from the line, that's a big improvement. Usually that translates into greater shooting efficiency. It hasn't yet, but it will.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3706 » by UcanUwill » Sat Jan 2, 2021 5:21 pm

My 100% strength canadian final 12 would probably look like this :

C : Dwight Powel / lTristan Thompson
PF : Brandon Clarke / Kelly Olynyk / Chris Boucher
SF : SGA / Luguentz Dort / Andrew Wiggins
SG : Murray / Dillion Brooks
PG : Pangos / Cory Joseph

On a verge : Trey Lyles, RJ Barrett, Khem Birch
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3707 » by halifax » Sat Jan 2, 2021 5:36 pm

Grizzlies should be moved back to Vancouver ! clark, dillon, valanciunas (semi Canadian)
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3708 » by halifax » Sat Jan 2, 2021 5:37 pm

no more embarrassing performances against the 'superior' Australian team.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3709 » by TheFutureMM » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:54 pm

UcanUwill wrote:My 100% strength canadian final 12 would probably look like this :

C : Dwight Powell / Tristan Thompson
PF : Brandon Clarke / Kelly Olynyk / Chris Boucher
SF : SGA / Luguentz Dort / Andrew Wiggins
SG : Murray / Dillion Brooks
PG : Pangos / Cory Joseph

On a verge : Trey Lyles, RJ Barrett, Khem Birch


This is my team as well - only change would be starting Olynyk and Thompson as opposed to Clarke/Powell. They compliment each other well.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3710 » by aminiaturebuddha » Sat Jan 2, 2021 11:20 pm

TheFutureMM wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:My 100% strength canadian final 12 would probably look like this :

C : Dwight Powell / Tristan Thompson
PF : Brandon Clarke / Kelly Olynyk / Chris Boucher
SF : SGA / Luguentz Dort / Andrew Wiggins
SG : Murray / Dillion Brooks
PG : Pangos / Cory Joseph

On a verge : Trey Lyles, RJ Barrett, Khem Birch


This is my team as well - only change would be starting Olynyk and Thompson as opposed to Clarke/Powell. They compliment each other well.


I would definitely start Olynyk as well, but would probably try to break up Clarke and Powell's minutes because their strengths on the offensive end overlap quite a bit. They're both excellent as a roll man in the pick-and-roll game. But Clarke is probably a better defender than Powell, so I would start him along with Olynyk and then have Powell off the bench with the better defender of Thompson (although offensively those two aren't a great match either, so I'd stagger minutes and limit the amount they actually played together).

For the other positions I might start SGA and Murray at the guard spots and have Brooks as my starting SF. Then you have the choice of Pangos or Dort first off the bench depending on whether you need more scoring or defence in any particular game.

It's all hypothetical though, of course, and unlikely that we'll ever see all these guys together. Still, it's fun to imagine the possibilities.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3711 » by TrueNorth31 » Sun Jan 3, 2021 7:34 pm

Hair Canada has started his analysis of Canadian high school players;

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2035998
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3712 » by mojo13 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 8:50 pm

aminiaturebuddha wrote:
TheFutureMM wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:My 100% strength canadian final 12 would probably look like this :

C : Dwight Powell / Tristan Thompson
PF : Brandon Clarke / Kelly Olynyk / Chris Boucher
SF : SGA / Luguentz Dort / Andrew Wiggins
SG : Murray / Dillion Brooks
PG : Pangos / Cory Joseph

On a verge : Trey Lyles, RJ Barrett, Khem Birch


This is my team as well - only change would be starting Olynyk and Thompson as opposed to Clarke/Powell. They compliment each other well.


I would definitely start Olynyk as well, but would probably try to break up Clarke and Powell's minutes because their strengths on the offensive end overlap quite a bit. They're both excellent as a roll man in the pick-and-roll game. But Clarke is probably a better defender than Powell, so I would start him along with Olynyk and then have Powell off the bench with the better defender of Thompson (although offensively those two aren't a great match either, so I'd stagger minutes and limit the amount they actually played together).

For the other positions I might start SGA and Murray at the guard spots and have Brooks as my starting SF. Then you have the choice of Pangos or Dort first off the bench depending on whether you need more scoring or defense in any particular game.

It's all hypothetical though, of course, and unlikely that we'll ever see all these guys together. Still, it's fun to imagine the possibilities.



I'm in the camp that think Kelly Olynyk is the best Canadian big in FIBA (by far). His outside/in, shoot, drive, playmaker skill set is really crucial in FIBA. It opens up the floor so much for guards to better attack the paint. Remember it is a smaller dimension floor, shorter three point line, no defensive three second rule, and all around much rougher game (clutching, grabbing, elbows). A packed paint is death to athletic run and gun North American teams. Murray/SGA/Wiggins would just clobbered in the paint unless one big is pulled away. Powell, TT and Birch sure can not drag defenders out to the perimeter let alone act as a triple threat like KO. Clarke is more in that mold - but can't yet shoot or pass like KO. Further Clark has never played a minute of FIBA ball in his life as far as I know. And this could all make Boucher a much more important piece than people tend to think.

TT is a really nice complement to KO up front making up on rebounding, rim protecting and defense. Khem Birch could fill that role well too. Powell is very different - a different skillset and different strengths/weakness. He can't shoot well from outside (defenders sure sag off him in the NBA), isn't a particularly good defender, doesn't protect the rim. But he can he set screens and finish (Birch/TT are pretty good at this too). I'd rather see Powell coming off the bench, but he'd be ok with KO or maybe Clarke/Boucher. Who doesn't really fit well together? TT/Birch, TT/Powell, Powell/Birch - it clogs the paint too much.

As for guards - I'm not starting Pangos if Murray and SGA are there. Don't think I'd start Pangos over CoJo either. Pangos' shooting and play making could start for me, but he is too big a defensive liability compared to the others (he has a giant bullseye on him in the EuroLeague) - still he is a nice piece to have.

SGA can play anywhere for me (PG/SG/SF) so he's more of a utility fill-in. Brooks/Wiggins still scare me a little (high risk/reward types that I'm not sure translate to consistent winning basketball) - I can see Wiggins starting, but I think I'd rather have Brooks as firepower off the bench. As a starter it would really bother me seeing Brooks take the most shots on the team (we all know that would happen). I wonder if Wiggin's penchant for long two's in the NBA would make him an effective three point shooter in FIBA?

So after all that - I'd be:
C : Tristan Thompson / Khem Birch
PF : Kelly Olynyk / Brandon Clarke / Chris Boucher
SF : SGA / Andrew Wiggins
SG : Murray / Dillion Brooks / Luguentz Dort
PG : Cory Joseph / Pangos

Tough decision - but I'd leave Dwight Powell off this 12. I want Birch's defense, rim protection and grittiness more and value Boucher's shooting and rim protection more than what Powell brings. Powell might not be a great FIBA fit relative to others,

I'd want CoJo's FIBA experience, leadership and him dogging their best guard. But the guards are much more flexible. Could easily go with Wiggins/SGA/Murray or SGA/Dort/Murray as the starting wings/guards.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3713 » by Kenter16 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:18 am

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Just saw this tweet come across my timeline and wanted to discuss my fears. The tweet was BC finally officially allowing the NHL to play in an all Canadian division.
It took them months to say yes to a letting teams come play the Canucks who won't leave the country at any point and will be tested daily. For awhile the was a rumour that the Canucks may have to move to Regina for the year.
I am not discussing whether this is the right decision or not. The question I want to pose is, will this same government allow a team from China, Turkey, etc to come into Vitoria to play? I am guessing no. So what are the options? It is ~180 days away, but we won't have enough vaccine rolled out by then to matter.
Alberta is holding the world Juniors currently to moderate success, in terms of Covid. Early positives that didn't derail anything. Would they consider moving it to Alberta? The Alberta government doest seem to be as cautious when it comes to the virus.


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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3714 » by duppyy » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:36 am

Give me Barrett over Wiggins any day.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3715 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:17 pm

mojo13 wrote:I'm in the camp that think Kelly Olynyk is the best Canadian big in FIBA (by far). His outside/in, shoot, drive, playmaker skill set is really crucial in FIBA. It opens up the floor so much for guards to better attack the paint. Remember it is a smaller dimension floor, shorter three point line, no defensive three second rule, and all around much rougher game (clutching, grabbing, elbows). A packed paint is death to athletic run and gun North American teams. Murray/SGA/Wiggins would just clobbered in the paint unless one big is pulled away. Powell, TT and Birch sure can not drag defenders out to the perimeter let alone act as a triple threat like KO. Clarke is more in that mold - but can't yet shoot or pass like KO. Further Clark has never played a minute of FIBA ball in his life as far as I know. And this could all make Boucher a much more important piece than people tend to think.

TT is a really nice complement to KO up front making up on rebounding, rim protecting and defense. Khem Birch could fill that role well too. Powell is very different - a different skillset and different strengths/weakness. He can't shoot well from outside (defenders sure sag off him in the NBA), isn't a particularly good defender, doesn't protect the rim. But he can he set screens and finish (Birch/TT are pretty good at this too). I'd rather see Powell coming off the bench, but he'd be ok with KO or maybe Clarke/Boucher. Who doesn't really fit well together? TT/Birch, TT/Powell, Powell/Birch - it clogs the paint too much.

As for guards - I'm not starting Pangos if Murray and SGA are there. Don't think I'd start Pangos over CoJo either. Pangos' shooting and play making could start for me, but he is too big a defensive liability compared to the others (he has a giant bullseye on him in the EuroLeague) - still he is a nice piece to have.

SGA can play anywhere for me (PG/SG/SF) so he's more of a utility fill-in. Brooks/Wiggins still scare me a little (high risk/reward types that I'm not sure translate to consistent winning basketball) - I can see Wiggins starting, but I think I'd rather have Brooks as firepower off the bench. As a starter it would really bother me seeing Brooks take the most shots on the team (we all know that would happen). I wonder if Wiggin's penchant for long two's in the NBA would make him an effective three point shooter in FIBA?

So after all that - I'd be:
C : Tristan Thompson / Khem Birch
PF : Kelly Olynyk / Brandon Clarke / Chris Boucher
SF : SGA / Andrew Wiggins
SG : Murray / Dillion Brooks / Luguentz Dort
PG : Cory Joseph / Pangos

Tough decision - but I'd leave Dwight Powell off this 12. I want Birch's defense, rim protection and grittiness more and value Boucher's shooting and rim protection more than what Powell brings. Powell might not be a great FIBA fit relative to others,

I'd want CoJo's FIBA experience, leadership and him dogging their best guard. But the guards are much more flexible. Could easily go with Wiggins/SGA/Murray or SGA/Dort/Murray as the starting wings/guards.


You are right about Pangos being a problem on defense, but Pangos is a better overall player and point guard than Corey Joseph is. But yeah, Pangos is too small to do much of anything on defense with switches and screens. I'd still take him over Joseph as a player though. The defensive problems are real, especially in more half court oriented FIBA games. But then again, Pangos is clearly a better shooter, ball handler, and passer than Joseph is.

Olynyk's ability to spread the floor and open up space for drivers would indeed be very important for Canada. As you said, someone like Birch is really limited on offense, basically just to dunks and layups. And under FIBA's rules and reffing, if that floor paint isn't spaced at all, then you have big men right there in the lane and help defenders already in place. Which would make it very hard on all the slashers Canada has. Just look at Team USA, they struggled at the 2019 World Cup trying to slash to the basket against any of the better teams.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3716 » by mojo13 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 5:43 pm

A little more love for Khem Birch as I think he is is fairly underappreciated here. He is a very good role player that helps a team win if the right pieces are out there around him. He is averaging career highs in points and rebounds for a surprising 5-2 Magic. He does so much that doesn't show up in the box score with defense, hustle, screens etc. He has a excellent 12/12/1/1/1 game last night with 12 offensive boards. He should be right in the same conversation with TT and Powell (who seems to be struggling after that Achilles injury and may never be the same).

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2021/01/02/mo-bamba-is-going-to-have-to-earn-back-up-center-spot/

"When Birch is on the floor, the Magic have a +17.0 net rating, the best mark of any regular rotation player on the team at this early stage of the season. Probably even more astounding considering how the Magic got blown out in Thursday’s game.

The Magic have an 88.7 defensive rating with Birch on the floor as part of that strong second unit that has buoyed the Magic to several wins.

Birch was also part of the unit that made the 17-point comeback against the Washington Wizards. Birch has earned his spot in the rotation, and with the Magic getting off to a fast start with a 4-1 record, Clifford has little to no reason to change the rotation.

Further, Birch is considered one of the best screeners in the league. That skill is a point of pride for Birch.

He leads the league with 11.7 screen assists per 36 minutes. He and Rudy Gobert are the only two players averaging more than 10.0 screen assists per 36 minutes this season. Last year, Birch ranked in the 95th percentile in the league in screen assists per 75 possessions, according to stats from Basketball Index."
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3717 » by ItsDanger » Tue Jan 5, 2021 5:55 pm

Kenter16 wrote:RJ will be on the team, no matter what, IMO.
It was about a week ago the world was singing his praises. The narrative was 'being snubbed for the all rookie team has motivated him'. He has struggled for the last few games. It will pass, he has the raw talent to succeed.
For both good and bad he is on the Knicks. Bad is that he has no help, no point guard, nobody who can create and dish and nobody who can shoot. The good is that even when he struggles he will get 35+ minutes a game and will continue to grow.
He plays Indiana tonight, last time he played them he had 26/8/5. He has really improved his stroke as well. He is shooting 78% from the line, that's a big improvement. Usually that translates into greater shooting efficiency. It hasn't yet, but it will.

RJ is on the team for a variety of reasons. His dad is running the program but he clearly deserves it with his play so far this year. He just has to avoid chucking 3's, rest of his game has improved a lot already. One of the few Canadians that can play bully ball and get to the line. For me, he starts at SF.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3718 » by Pooh_Jeter » Tue Jan 5, 2021 5:56 pm

Can't see RJ being left off if he wants to play. Wiggins for all his faults has looked better for the most part with the Warriors, particularly defensively and with his overall motor. I don't trust him offensively without Draymond and Steph out there dictating what he does though. That being said my "everyone is available team" would be...

TT/Birch
Olynyk/Boucher/Clarke
Wiggins/Brooks
SGA/RJ/Dort
Murray/Joseph

Would love to find a spot for Pangos or even Ejim, but if we are talking best available tough to see it. I think if he was fully healthy and playing at his peak Powell would be the 3rd big on the team, but he doesn't look the same post achilles. CoJo always raises his game for Canada in Fiba play, no way he isn't at least a backup.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3719 » by mojo13 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 5:47 pm

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#3720 » by mojo13 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 5:49 pm

Mfiondu Kabengele will be a UFA at the end of the season.

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