Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[mojo13]

As for some idle speculation on the NT for this next window, I noticed in the lead up to the July games the Canada Basketballs promos on Twitter used pictures of guys that ended up playing. They didn’t use images of everyone but most of the top guys (KO, Powell, CoJo, Ejim, Scrubb, Heslip). This time around I only so far have seen CoJo, KO and TT.
Over the weekend Peter Yannonoplous (or whatever) announced on Twitter he is confirming Khem Birch is playing. And today I noticed the first promo with Khem’s image. So maybe these are something to watch.

Here is an example of what I am referring to.

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Here is the first appearance of the Khem one from today:

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En Francais mofos.

[aminiaturebuddha]

CoJo, KO, TT and Birch would be a good start (although I hope TT and Birch would never see the floor together - that would be some disastrous spacing on offence). We would still need at least one primary wing scorer. Assuming no Murray, Wiggins or Barrett, it would be great if the program could get commitments from Brooks and/or Stauskas. It would also be a great time for Pangos to make an appearance.

[mojo13]

Brazil announces its 13 man prelim roster vs Canada. Not the best talent, but some skilled and experienced guys. Plus they are announcing well ahead so I’m assuming they will get plenty of time together and be pretty polished by the time we play them. A potential game changer if we don’t deploy an overwhelming level of talent.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/marcelinho-varejao-and-barbosa-in-brazils-preliminary-squad-for-september-window

PGs: Marcelinho Huertas (Baskonia)
Yago Mateus (Paulistano)
Ricardo Fischer (Corinthians)

Wings: Leonardo Meindl (Paulistano)
Leandro Barbosa
Vitor Benite (Cedevita)
Marcos “Didi” Louzada (Franca)
Jhonatan Luz (Flamenco)

Forwards/Centers:
Lucas Dias (Franca)
Rafael Hettsheimeir (Franca)
Anderson Varejão (Flamengo)
Augusto Lima (Cedevita)
Rafael Mineiro (Flamengo)

Notable absences include: Nene, Bruno Cuboclo, C. Felecio, Raul Neto, Lucas Noguiera and more.
I assume they are going with the same guys they will have access to during the NBA season and didn’t think reinforcements are needed. Or maybe believe in consistancy and chemistry.

[slothrop8]

At home I say we can beat that team if we can get 4 of our NBA guys to play. More than 4 and we roll. Joseph and Olynyk are playing for sure right - and they are the best guard and big in the game? If we can put a couple more NBA guys with them and add in our other national team regulars, we should be good to go. We can probably win with even less than 4 if we have Cojo and Olynyk at home.

[mojo13]

I think you are probably right, but consider some of their top Euro players like Benite, Lima and Huertas are not too different from our lowest level NBA players - maybe better when it comes to FIBA. and Barbosa although fairly over the hill still has some big game potential. Point is this will be no walk in the park if we show up with a limited team. My fingers are crossed that we have at least the team we had in July maybe minus Barrett but bringing in one or two of Pangos/Ennis/Stauskas.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Pangos would be an important addition. If Brazil end up playing Huertas and Barbosa or Benite together a lot, Canada could get away with Pangos and Joseph playing big minutes together in the backcourt. That might help gloss over the lack of depth we'll have there for this window.

The fact that he was on that initial training camp invite list back in May gives me hope that he might play, and that, as other have speculated, it was just his wedding and contract situation that kept him out of the summer games.

[mojo13]

Finally a media member with the nuts to say who he believes will be playing. Not sure how much he really knows but this would be a solid enough core.

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Is this a good thing? Depends I guess. I liked Gordie Herbert’s coaching performance but not Rana’s

K

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[Patman]

Is this a good thing? Depends I guess. I liked Gordie Herbert’s coaching performance but not Rana’s

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What about Dave Smart? Also, why do we need to have a Canadian coach? We can use someone like Blatt who's had extensive FIBA success.

[WellYouKnow]

So barring any withdrawals the roster is pretty much set except for another guard?

Looks like

Bigs - Olynyk, Tristan, Powell, Birch, Ejim and Bennett

Wings/guards - CoJo, Brooks, Scrubbx2, Heslip and one more?

Really light at pg and just guard in general.

Pangos would be amazing but I'd be fine with XRM. Hanlan or Keane would be a bit of a letdown imo, and we'd be one injury away from a potential depthless team.

Cory will have to play 30+ minutes for sure every game.

Herbert would be my choice for coach too.

[GoRaptors]

So barring any withdrawals the roster is pretty much set except for another guard?

Looks like

Bigs - Olynyk, Tristan, Powell, Birch, Ejim and Bennett

Wings/guards - CoJo, Brooks, Scrubbx2, Heslip and one more?

Really light at pg and just guard in general.

Pangos would be amazing but I'd be fine with XRM. Hanlan or Keane would be a bit of a letdown imo, and we'd be one injury away from a potential depthless team.

Cory will have to play 30+ minutes for sure every game.

Herbert would be my choice for coach too.

As there are six bigs in this group I think they should play Ejim at small forward some of the time. Brooks might have to play split some of his time between shooting guard and small forward as well.

[SharoneWright]

Is this a good thing? Depends I guess. I liked Gordie Herbert’s coaching performance but not Rana’s

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What about Dave Smart? Also, why do we need to have a Canadian coach? We can use someone like Blatt who's had extensive FIBA success.

Agreed. For me, it's anyone but Triano.. but who fires him?? Nash??lol. And no one's firing Nash. What a little fiefdom!

[mojo13]

So barring any withdrawals the roster is pretty much set except for another guard?

Looks like

Bigs - Olynyk, Tristan, Powell, Birch, Ejim and Bennett

Wings/guards - CoJo, Brooks, Scrubbx2, Heslip and one more?

Really light at pg and just guard in general.

Pangos would be amazing but I'd be fine with XRM. Hanlan or Keane would be a bit of a letdown imo, and we'd be one injury away from a potential depthless team.

Cory will have to play 30+ minutes for sure every game.

Herbert would be my choice for coach too.

I don’t think we can 100 percent count on any of the European based guys as most all of them have started their camps already. The EuroLeague guys certainly many not be released outright (Pangos, Ennis). And the rest it could comedown to a team by team decision. With that I think the guys going to new teams and learning new systems might be less apt to leave there teams for two weeks. Athough I think it makes all of them questionable - we will get some. But no idea who and this is where our depth comes in. If you follow what’s going on with each European national team you’ll see none are getting near full participation. Loads of NBA guys are not playing (they are getting flak for it too - like Wiggins) and even the Euro based guys seem questionable. National Teams have had to back peddle on training camps and cancel exhibition games because many clubs won’t release guys until the 10th. It’s crazy.

Just don’t get your hopes up too high and I bet we may see some odd omissions to the roster we come up with. Again this is where our depth should help. I actually think the most available guys this window will be the NBA guys that have a little less pressure on them. The role players and end of bench guys. And why we won’t see Wiggins and Murray once again, as any highly paid guys (Giannis, Jokic, Wiggins, Towns), key younger players (Murray) or anyone with anything near an injury (Galinari, Belenelli, Boban, Teodosic) are being pressured not to play by their NBA teams.

I do think Bennett is in the mix as he is unsigned. Olivier Hanlan too. Heslip playing for Gordie Herbert should get realeased. Both Scrubbs are with new teams, so are a little unknown. XRM, Keane seem unknowns but possible. Dyshawn Pierre could be out there. Adika Peter McNeily, Aaron Best. Any of these familiar guys could provide deep depth. I do think it will be guys that have participated recently. If European teams are releasing guys just few days before the games, there is no real time to incorporate newbies.

[slothrop8]

FIBA couldn't have made a bigger mess of the qualifying process for this event they are trying to turn into their marquee tournament if their actual intent was to create a big, disastrous mess.

[Double Helix]

With all of the different qualifying tournaments and politics with NBA teams I find it hard to keep up with whether we are truly trending toward FIBA or Olympic births soon or not.

Can anyone in the know explain the following?

1) When is the next FIBA Worlds and what is qualification like for that?

2) Does it seem likely that we will have Murray, or Barrett, or Wiggins, plus some of the other NBA guys who have committed more frequently for those qualifications?

3) When is the Olympic qualifying? Does the plan still seem to be that Mash and RB Sr are waiting for their asks mostly for that? Any developments with our bigger NBA talent who haven’t been able to commit lately to that?

4) I heard the Triano rumor with Wiggins & Staudkas but beyond Triano... What is the big hurdle for us in getting these bigger guys to commit more and when do you see it being resolved?

5) It seems Nash’s involvement has seriously dropped off after much fan fare and that he’s acting more as “the face” and as more of an ambassador who occasionally gives talks on it than anyone who’s truly working at this and reaching out to guys. Is that accurate or is he doing more behind the scenes than it seems?

Thank you in advance

[slothrop8]

With all of the different qualifying tournaments and politics with NBA teams I find it hard to keep up with whether we are truly trending toward FIBA or Olympic births soon or not.

Can anyone in the know explain the following?

1) When is the next FIBA Worlds and what is qualification like for that?

2) Does it seem likely that we will have Murray, or Barrett, or Wiggins, plus some of the other NBA guys who have committed more frequently for those qualifications?

3) When is the Olympic qualifying? Does the plan still seem to be that Mash and RB Sr are waiting for their asks mostly for that? Any developments with our bigger NBA talent who haven’t been able to commit lately to that?

I'll take the first few of these - there are others here probably better suited to opine on the more political questions:

1) FIBA World Cup is Aug 31-Sept 15 2019 and qualifying in in progress right now. Qualifying for this tournament is the event that's generating most of the current discussion in this thread. It's been going on since last year after FIBA changed the process. A good overview of the process can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_FIBA_Basketball_World_Cup_qualification_(Americas)
The Second Round is about to begin in September - Canada has vitally important games at home against Brazil and on the road vs Chile on Sept 13 and 16th respectively.

In the Team Canada Basektball thread that got locked and is drifting somewhere down the pages of this forum - I wrote about 10,000 words on the various qualifying scenarios and what Canada needs/ should root for in order qualify. It would be in one of the last few pages of that thread if you can find it and really want a deep dive into the FIBA Worlds Qualifiers. It was a masterwork and should win both a Pulitzer and a Nobel Prize - highly recommend!

2) Barrett played in qualifiers earlier this summer. None of Murray, Wiggins, or Barrett are likely to play in the games coming up next month. Murray seems pretty likely to play in the World Cup if we make it. Barrett will be about to start his rookie year - he'll likely play anyway, but players in that situation often do not participate. Wiggins is an unknown - it's heavily rumored he doesn't want to play for Triano - but if we make the actual World Cup the pressure on him to show up will be significant. Your guess is probably as good as mine. None of them can play in the rest of the qualifying games coming up later this year and early next year because FIBA scheduled qualifying games when the NBA, NCAA, Euroleague, and everything else's season is going on. It's a very long story, but basically a super dumb decision by FIBA.

3) There are 7 teams that qualify for the Olympics straight from the World Cup - including 2 from the Americas zone. In an ideal world - we'd qualify for the World Cup and do well enough there to get one of those spots. With even decent participation of our NBA guys and best Euroleague guys we are in my opinion the 2nd best team in the Americas - but actually finishing top 2 among Americas teams in the World Cup would depend on a) getting there b) what participation we get c) what pool we end up in and what pool(s) some of the other Americas teams land in d) actually playing to our potential once we're there.

If Canada doesn't qualify straight from the World Cup - there are qualification tournaments. Details are somewhat sketchy at this stage on what those will look like. Knowing FIBA they'll be held in Antarctica during the NBA playoffs or something. Better to qualify straight from the World Cup - but there'll be routes to get in even if we miss out on qualification from the World Cup. Some details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_qualification

[frumble]

Finally a media member with the nuts to say who he believes will be playing. Not sure how much he really knows but this would be a solid enough core.

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Is this a good thing? Depends I guess. I liked Gordie Herbert’s coaching performance but not Rana’s

K

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Yes, very good to see a media guy discussing the possible roster.

Kind of an odd choice of words when Pete Y says "Would be nice to see Pangos get an opportunity."

He makes it seem as if Pangos has never been given an opportunity when it has been the opposite.

Pangos has not only made the roster of every Canadian team he has tried out for, he has led the team in minutes in every FIBA tournament he has played in. He was also given a tremendous opportunity by being taken on the foreign pro tour in the summer of 2012, and was somewhat controversially recommended (over Kabongo) for an all star game (Nike Hoop Summit in 2010 or 2011, IIRC).

But he has not played for Canada at a FIBA even since 2011 (before he started playing at Gonzaga), even though the opportunity has been there (along with a great need).

He wanted to spend his summers training with his Zags teammates, he needed to get ready for the draft/pro tryouts, he wanted to prep for his upcoming pro season, he wanted to get ready for his wedding - all valid reasons (not that his reasons even need to be valid). But it is not as if the opportunity has not been there for the past six summers, he has just not taken it.

All that said, I really hope he decides to re-join the program this summer.

[mojo13]

With all of the different qualifying tournaments and politics with NBA teams I find it hard to keep up with whether we are truly trending toward FIBA or Olympic births soon or not.

Can anyone in the know explain the following?

1) When is the next FIBA Worlds and what is qualification like for that?

2) Does it seem likely that we will have Murray, or Barrett, or Wiggins, plus some of the other NBA guys who have committed more frequently for those qualifications?

3) When is the Olympic qualifying? Does the plan still seem to be that Mash and RB Sr are waiting for their asks mostly for that? Any developments with our bigger NBA talent who haven’t been able to commit lately to that?

4) I heard the Triano rumor with Wiggins & Staudkas but beyond Triano... What is the big hurdle for us in getting these bigger guys to commit more and when do you see it being resolved?

5) It seems Nash’s involvement has seriously dropped off after much fan fare and that he’s acting more as “the face” and as more of an ambassador who occasionally gives talks on it than anyone who’s truly working at this and reaching out to guys. Is that accurate or is he doing more behind the scenes than it seems?

Thank you in advance

I’ll tackle 4 and 5.

5) it seems pretty clear Nash is just a figurehead and his interest, money and time are focused elsewhere. He may show his face during the WC or Olympics but he is definitely not involved day to day. He has not publicly been seen near the NT since sitting in the stands at the 2016 Manila Olympic qualifiers. Rowan Barrett is the man in charge and working tirelessly every day to manage through this gong show. Barrett is really the "GM" - this should be undisputed.

4) I am starting to believe the Wiggins v Triano beef is way overblown. It’s a convenient excuse for the lazy media to point fingers and an easy excuse for fans to latch on to. Wiggins is such an easy going guy and it is hard to see a lingering grudge. Triano certainly doesnt seem the type either. The reality is that NBA teams really don’t want their players playing and really put pressure on their top talent to avoid FIBA. No country routinely gets star players and especially during these qualifiers when not too many fans or media care or pay attention to. You’l see many more NBA guys (and top EL top talent) show up for the WCs or Olympics but less and less for side shows (regional tournaments, qualifiers). You even have EL league guys publicly complaining that between EL, domestic leagues and FIBA they are playing over 100 games a year and their bodies just cant take it any more. Maybe this WC you will see heavy turnout as it is a qualifier to the Olympics, but the last WC was already missing noticeably more of top players than in the past.

The NBA and FIBA have an agreement where the NBA can’t ban guys playing for their NTs in the summer, but the teams will put a tonne of pressure on guys not to play. I just dont think we will see guys like Wiggins, Murray and probably RJ too often outside the Olympics and to a lesser extent the WCs (which North Americans don’t really care much about).

This is part of the reason why I have been following our non NBA guys so closely. The high level depth we now have should be the bedrock of our NT. I just hope these guys don't feel jobbed and give up on the NT when Wiggins, RJ or Barrett come in and take their spot after they spilled their blood to qualify. But that is the reality every NT is dealing with.

I think Stauskas’s excuse is his NBA career has been hanging by a thread for the last few years. He has either been without contract, in a contract year or just really needed to be in the gym the last few summers to try everything to improve his game. If his career was more stable or even if he was flushed out and off to Europe already I think he would be with the team. We always need to be thinking of all the reasons these guys might not play. Injuries, free agent status, career instability, club commitments or concerns. We can easily have runs of 2-4 summers in a row where a particular player just has too many other distractions.

That said if Wiggins or Stauskas really wanted to play they could have. But in recent years both Giannis and Jokic have pushed their NBA teams really hard to play, but in the end - they haven’t.


Right now I am thankful that we have so much depth - are not reliant on 1 or 2 top NBA players like many countries are and happy if we get close to 50% of our top players playing. We had the most NBA guys playing of any country in the last window and that probably continues for this upcoming window. Glass is half full guys...

[mojo13]

Looks like camp starts on the 6th. It will be interesting if the article I saw saying many Euro clubs won’t release guys until the 10th is true or not. If so, that could really limit who can play. Could be some deep filler making it on to this team at the 9-12 roster spots.

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Still talking it up like Olynyk, Brooks, CoJo will be there. I’m Starting to really believe we have them three locked along with TT and Birch at the very least. That’s a great base.


Of note I have not seen Dwight Powell mentioned in any marketing promos. Yannonoplous’s tweet mentioning him has been the only thing I have seen.

[frumble]

Mojo, as always, thanks for the updates.

Will be very interesting to see how deep we have to go with the guards/wings.

On a different note, anyone have info re how any of our guys did in NCAA foreign tours?
I read that Brazdeikis led Michigan in scoring during their tour of Spain, with 17, 15, and 15 points.
And Barrett's performances in Duke's Canadian tour got a lot of press.
Any others?

[PoundTown]

Good to see the vets committed. Murray and Shai, maybe even RJ added in with the group that'll be playing this summer, and the team will look great next summer and could definitely compete for a medal.