We CANNOT Trade Siakam for AD (Deep Thoughts)

HeadtopChunes · Post #61 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:15 am

Honestly you still got to consider it, especially if Davis is willing to commit immediately (no he stay/he gone)

alienchild · Post #62 » by **alienchild** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:20 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:Honestly you still got to consider it, especially if Davis is willing to commit immediately (no he stay/he gone)

Interesting day to wear your pointy hat.

Clay Davis · Post #63 » by **Clay Davis** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:25 am

Here's an argument made purely from a meta-game perspective:

If your goal is to compete for a championship, it's better to have a team with salary spent on Siakam than on AD.

You have to go all the way back to 2011 to find a team whose best player was a big man. You can even stretch the restrictions a bit and ask how many finals series have had a traditional big man included in the list of top 3 players from either team. You could make arguments for players like Kevin Love, Chris Bosh, and Draymond Green being the third best player in a given series but it's always an argument made with the tacit assumption that they are on a tier below Lebron and whoever else is occupying his ilk (it has included Curry, KD, D Wade, RW, and Dirk). That's not to say there aren't excellent, elite big men: AD and Demarcus are some of the best players of this era, but the fact is that a team built around a big man won't be extremely successful. This isn't to say that they aren't extremely skilled and extremely impactful, but their skills don't fit the way the game is played and their impact is not enough to make the team that could be built around them extremely competitive. You can have a Demarcus or an AD and you'll get 30/10/5 from them on a good night, but you probably won't be getting lights out shooting from the other 4 positions and efficient iso scoring. It's not easy to build an elite team in this pace-and-space era with so much salary spent on a player who doesn't jack up the pace and doesn't space the floor.

AD is a much better player than Siakam. I won't argue otherwise. Siakam, however, is better at certain things that are more valuable, such as switching on defense and spacing the floor. Taken in isolation, this doesn't mean much, but when you're considering that you've got 4 other players on the court who benefit more from Siakam's skill-set than AD's and when you consider that they'll be paid more than an analogous team with AD, it's a straight-forward matter of saying that Siakam is better to have on your team because it's easier to optimize the other variables to produce a team that's better than what you could construct with AD.

COY0607 · Post #64 » by **COY0607** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:42 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:Honestly you still got to consider it, especially if Davis is willing to commit immediately (no he stay/he gone)

No one in their right mind would say no to a re-signed AD for Siakam

Likewise, no one in their right mind would say yes to a non-commital AD

Since AD committing is not even remotely possible, there isn't much to discuss here

HeadtopChunes · Post #65 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:47 am

COY0607 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:Honestly you still got to consider it, especially if Davis is willing to commit immediately (no he stay/he gone)

No one in their right mind would say no to a re-signed AD for Siakam

Likewise, no one in their right mind would say yes to a non-commital AD

Since AD committing is not even remotely possible, there isn't much to discuss here

yeah, that's the main issue at hand.

AD is a superior player, but a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Although I wouldnt say "not remotely possible" , i think if Leonard stays it be pretty possible.

macNcheese3 · Post #66 » by **macNcheese3** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:09 am

Screw AD. I love seeing a guy we drafted doing so well.

Yallbecrazy · Post #67 » by **Yallbecrazy** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:41 am

even at the same salary I take Siakam over AD and I don't think at all about it.

If you guaranteed AD would be healthy there might be a discussion

Raps1103 · Post #68 » by **Raps1103** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:36 am

J-Roc wrote:Siakam won't become Giannis folks. He's great, but he's not a #1 star guy. Also, if we get AD and then Kawhi bails, we can trade AD to start the rebuild we always planned on anyway.

And this expert opinion is based on???? What exactly ?

JackedFinancier · Post #69 » by **JackedFinancier** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:50 am

Yallbecrazy wrote:even at the same salary I take Siakam over AD and I don't think at all about it.

If you guaranteed AD would be healthy there might be a discussion

I just think the evolution of Siakam is mind blowing. It's astonishing. It's honestly otherworldly. So yes - at this current moment - I would have to think about trading Siakam for AD which is just outrageous. Maybe I think differently once the playoffs are over in terms of how Siakam plays from here on out - but the progression I see from him is on another level - so I wouldn't put it past him to improve even more.

I think he could use a nice face up jump shot, I think he could use a pull up jump shot and I also think he could use an off the dribble 3 - that would make him absolutely unstoppable.

J-Roc · Post #70 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:48 am

Raps1103 wrote:
J-Roc wrote:Siakam won't become Giannis folks. He's great, but he's not a #1 star guy. Also, if we get AD and then Kawhi bails, we can trade AD to start the rebuild we always planned on anyway.

And this expert opinion is based on???? What exactly ?

His style of game. Lack of midrange. I'm enjoying what he's getting done right now with less pressure. He'll end up being our #1 guy soon enough but that doesn't mean a team with him as #1 would be a contender.

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Post #71 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:50 am

If Anthony Davis is signed to a decent deal day 4/$140 million you trade Pascal Siakam for him 10/10 times. Davis is a MVP and DPOTY level player. I get Pascal has been really good but if you can pair both Leonard and Davis with Danny Green Lowry and whatever we have left it's a win-win scenario

HomieOmey · Post #72 » by **HomieOmey** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:53 am

[quote="StopitLeo”]
Smaller moves may improve the team but they won't provide a legitimate second scoring option nor a monster defensive player. AD isn't a rental until next year so he can be flipped for assets, the very same ones people are saying NOP should hold out until the offseason to get. We traded DeRozan - as much as the organization strives for a certain culture it is still a business. The team with the best players tend to win.[/quote]

Yeah, I mostly agree with you about everything, I just wonder how available Jrue Holiday is; he’s a player I would describe as a defensive monster. If Durant leaves the Warriors, I think a Siakm, Lowry, and Jrue trio would be more than enough as occasional second options. I’d be happy with this if Durant left to NY and got paired with Kemba Walker. Maybe even Kyrie if they can’t fill the rest of the roster. My biggest problem with a trade for Jrue would be that it would likely mean NO traded AD to pair up with Durant or Kyrie in Boston or NY. By not trading for AD we could very well be creating the next super team in NY, Boston, or LA.i would still trade anything for a year of Gasol, AD, Kawhi, Green, and Lowry.

kai_bouche · Post #73 » by **kai_bouche** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:56 am

Another one year rental drama.
AD stay!
sign me up.
Also sorry to burst your bubble but we are beating Goliath state Warriors and Kawhi is staying

RaptorsNorth · Post #74 » by **RaptorsNorth** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:03 pm

Are you high!!! AD is a top 5 player in this league. People get caught up in the moment a just say nonsense after big victorys. AD is oneof the best players in this league period! You're not getting AD for pascal straight up anyways. As good as pascal has become. He's still not at AD's level. Just stop the nonsens! This is why NBA fans laugh at this fan base.

There's stars and then there's superstars! Pascal is on his way to becoming a star. Ad is a superstar in this league. These guy love to embarrass this fan base with stupidity.

SalamiNcheese · Post #75 » by **SalamiNcheese** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:15 pm

RaptorsNorth wrote:Are you high!!! AD is a top 5 player in this league. People get caught up in the moment a just say nonsense after big victorys. AD is oneof the best players in this league period! You're not getting AD for pascal straight up anyways. As good as pascal has become. He's still not at AD's level. Just stop the nonsens! This is why NBA fans laugh at this fan base.

There's stars and then there's superstars! Pascal is on his way to becoming a star. Ad is a superstar in this league. These guy love to embarrass this fan base with stupidity.

AD is top 5 injured player for sureeeee. Injury prone. Siakam runs laps over this guy. It’s not all about flashy plays. AD is kind of like Kyrie Irving they get injured they talk about how good they are and then they can’t win on there own. They need someone better then them to carry them. Siakam played basketball for like 7 years... idk for the injury chance alone I don’t know if I want AD or Kyrie.

icoholic · Post #76 » by **icoholic** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:19 pm

I'd want nothing to do with AD or Rich Paul after watching the nonsense in New Orleans this year. I also don't trust AD's body lasting through a max deal.

RaptorsNorth · Post #77 » by **RaptorsNorth** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:24 pm

I'm not wasting anymore time in this thread on this topic after this post. There's sense and then there's nonsense. AD is a top 5 player in the league. Denver won't even do jokic for pascal, much less AD for pascal smh. This is just ridiculous to even waste anymore time discussing any farther. Come on guys let's get real here for a sec.

SHFT · Post #78 » by **SHFT** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:25 pm

The only way i include spice in a package for AD is if Davis is healthy and has at least 2 yrs left because its Anthony freaking Davis lol.

But since neither are true, then no.

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v1n5anity · Post #79 » by **v1n5anity** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:35 pm

I like Siakam's game more. He's becoming like a Giannis-lite. He's only getting better whereas AD has peaked and is always injured. What has AD exactly accomplished with the Pels/Hornets ever since he got in the league as the team's go-to-guy? He's also become a diva and I don't want no part of that. Kawhi's more than enough tbh.

COY0607 · Post #80 » by **COY0607** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:34 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
COY0607 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:Honestly you still got to consider it, especially if Davis is willing to commit immediately (no he stay/he gone)

No one in their right mind would say no to a re-signed AD for Siakam

Likewise, no one in their right mind would say yes to a non-commital AD

Since AD committing is not even remotely possible, there isn't much to discuss here

yeah, that's the main issue at hand.

AD is a superior player, but a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Although I wouldnt say "not remotely possible" , i think if Leonard stays it be pretty possible.

If Leonard stays, I would imagine Siakam is likely one of the selling points. So that takes AD off the table

And I don't think Leonard is the type of guy (LeBron) who would push to disrupt team chemistry for a superior player with baggage