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Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0

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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#661 » by Jcity08 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:10 pm

Kabookalu wrote:Seeing all the heat JV's getting is bumming me out while our current young guns are actually getting developed. So many of our prospects were ruined by Casey.


JV was pigeonholed into a certain role rather than develop other areas of his game. I don't know how much that's on himself or Casey but still does make you wonder.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#662 » by Kabookalu » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:19 pm

Jcity08 wrote:
Kabookalu wrote:Seeing all the heat JV's getting is bumming me out while our current young guns are actually getting developed. So many of our prospects were ruined by Casey.


JV was pigeonholed into a certain role rather than develop other areas of his game. I don't know how much that's on himself or Casey but still does make you wonder.


I always said it was more on JV not developing than it was on Casey. However in hindsight I was dead wrong there. After seeing what Nurse has been able to do in the 2 years here it's just so apparent how much Casey mismanaged his teams in order to chase regular season accolades. Casey is the king of pigenholing players into roles they're not suited for. He absolutely needed someone to be a first option and forced DeRozan into that role. He wanted JV to be a garbageman and didn't bother promoting the other aspects of his game. He wanted a stretch 4, and forced Ibaka to dribble the ball from the perimeter (I couldn't stand Ibaka in 2017-18 because of how much he fumbled the ball on his drives, but now I see that the hate is misplaced).

I still maintain that intangible development, adding skills to your game, is still done in the offseason. However it's up to the coaches to validate that development and acknowledge it during the regular season. Casey never did this, he just stuck to his same stubborn routines to win now. Nurse is striking the perfect balance of developing now, while winning now.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#663 » by Jcity08 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:46 pm

Kabookalu wrote:
Jcity08 wrote:
Kabookalu wrote:Seeing all the heat JV's getting is bumming me out while our current young guns are actually getting developed. So many of our prospects were ruined by Casey.


JV was pigeonholed into a certain role rather than develop other areas of his game. I don't know how much that's on himself or Casey but still does make you wonder.


I always said it was more on JV not developing than it was on Casey. However in hindsight I was dead wrong there. After seeing what Nurse has been able to do in the 2 years here it's just so apparent how much Casey mismanaged his teams in order to chase regular season accolades. Casey is the king of pigenholing players into roles they're not suited for. He absolutely needed someone to be a first option and forced DeRozan into that role. He wanted JV to be a garbageman and didn't bother promoting the other aspects of his game. He wanted a stretch 4, and forced Ibaka to dribble the ball from the perimeter (I couldn't stand Ibaka in 2017-18 because of how much he fumbled the ball on his drives, but now I see that the hate is misplaced).

I still maintain that intangible development, adding skills to your game, is still done in the offseason. However it's up to the coaches to validate that development and acknowledge it during the regular season. Casey never did this, he just stuck to his same stubborn routines to win now. Nurse is striking the perfect balance of developing now, while winning now.


Agreed and the players are genuinely buying in more in this season over seasons past as well, which is a good sign in terms coaching. No one has ego's, everyone is playing for each other.

Those good habits get passed down to our rooks too.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#664 » by FrozenLeafz » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:30 am

Passing the torch - VC15--> CB4--> DD10+KL7--> PS43
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#665 » by lobosloboslobos » Sun Mar 1, 2020 3:32 am

Jonas with 22/20 on 10/15 shooting against the Lakers tonight in a big win. Led the team with a +29.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#666 » by TrustFundBaby » Sun Mar 1, 2020 4:58 am

lobosloboslobos wrote:Jonas with 22/20 on 10/15 shooting against the Lakers tonight in a big win. Led the team with a +29.


Bring him home :cry:

Really crazy seeing him be a vet on a young team, felt like yesterday he was the young guy being lead by Lowry
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#667 » by lebron stopper » Sun Mar 1, 2020 7:19 am

Jcity08 wrote:
Kabookalu wrote:
Jcity08 wrote:
JV was pigeonholed into a certain role rather than develop other areas of his game. I don't know how much that's on himself or Casey but still does make you wonder.


I always said it was more on JV not developing than it was on Casey. However in hindsight I was dead wrong there. After seeing what Nurse has been able to do in the 2 years here it's just so apparent how much Casey mismanaged his teams in order to chase regular season accolades. Casey is the king of pigenholing players into roles they're not suited for. He absolutely needed someone to be a first option and forced DeRozan into that role. He wanted JV to be a garbageman and didn't bother promoting the other aspects of his game. He wanted a stretch 4, and forced Ibaka to dribble the ball from the perimeter (I couldn't stand Ibaka in 2017-18 because of how much he fumbled the ball on his drives, but now I see that the hate is misplaced).

I still maintain that intangible development, adding skills to your game, is still done in the offseason. However it's up to the coaches to validate that development and acknowledge it during the regular season. Casey never did this, he just stuck to his same stubborn routines to win now. Nurse is striking the perfect balance of developing now, while winning now.


Agreed and the players are genuinely buying in more in this season over seasons past as well, which is a good sign in terms coaching. No one has ego's, everyone is playing for each other.

Those good habits get passed down to our rooks too.


Ibaka and Powell are two players Nurse successfully reclaimed after Doofus Casey's horrible coaching chops left them for dead.

Ibaka was forced into playing stretch 4 under Casey. This took him out of the interior where he was at his best (ie. rim protection + better rebounding position + unusually great mid-range), and put him on the perimeter full-time, making him a very streaky and often unreliable "shooter" and poor perimeter defender who couldn't really contribute anything else if his shot wasn't falling. By the time Casey was fired, Ibaka's contract was seen as extremely toxic and he was viewed negatively by the majority of the fanbase. Under Nurse, a lot of his weaknesses as a perimeter player are no longer on display, he's able to contribute something every night, and he's a huge fan favourite among Raptors fans.

Powell is another case of Casey misuse. Doofus loved overplaying washed up veterans like Carroll over Powell, who usually got 25 min in one game and played well, and then received DNPs over the next three. Casey's mishandling of Powell was particularly egregious in his third season: Casey wanted a 3-and-D player at SF, so instead of starting Anunoby who was already showing out in preseason, he went with the ball-dominant undersized SG who could barely shoot at the time. Then after Powell waiting in the corner for kickout passes all game predictably failed in spectacular fashion to start the season, he got glued to the bench and was given scrap garbage time minutes for the rest of the season. Nurse, on the other hand, has not only given Powell lots of minutes consistently and let him play his natural game, but he's deployed him in many ways on-ball and off-ball: driving, cutting, running off screens, even occasionally playing point. Under Nurse, Powell plays with way more confidence than he ever did under Casey, and it shows whenever he plays nowadays.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#668 » by lobosloboslobos » Sun Mar 1, 2020 2:28 pm

^ yeah all good points. many posters still do not realize what an exceptionally counterproductive coach casey was. we had lots of good players whom he successfully pushed to play hard and that's why we won a lot of regular season games. in every other way he was a spectacular failure.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#669 » by cruwinas » Mon Mar 2, 2020 7:06 pm

lebron stopper wrote:Ibaka and Powell are two players Nurse successfully reclaimed after Doofus Casey's horrible coaching chops left them for dead.

Ibaka was forced into playing stretch 4 under Casey. This took him out of the interior where he was at his best (ie. rim protection + better rebounding position + unusually great mid-range), and put him on the perimeter full-time, making him a very streaky and often unreliable "shooter" and poor perimeter defender who couldn't really contribute anything else if his shot wasn't falling. By the time Casey was fired, Ibaka's contract was seen as extremely toxic and he was viewed negatively by the majority of the fanbase. Under Nurse, a lot of his weaknesses as a perimeter player are no longer on display, he's able to contribute something every night, and he's a huge fan favourite among Raptors fans.

Powell is another case of Casey misuse. Doofus loved overplaying washed up veterans like Carroll over Powell, who usually got 25 min in one game and played well, and then received DNPs over the next three. Casey's mishandling of Powell was particularly egregious in his third season: Casey wanted a 3-and-D player at SF, so instead of starting Anunoby who was already showing out in preseason, he went with the ball-dominant undersized SG who could barely shoot at the time. Then after Powell waiting in the corner for kickout passes all game predictably failed in spectacular fashion to start the season, he got glued to the bench and was given scrap garbage time minutes for the rest of the season. Nurse, on the other hand, has not only given Powell lots of minutes consistently and let him play his natural game, but he's deployed him in many ways on-ball and off-ball: driving, cutting, running off screens, even occasionally playing point. Under Nurse, Powell plays with way more confidence than he ever did under Casey, and it shows whenever he plays nowadays.


Look at JV in Memphis. He is actively involved in initiating, screens he set are different from whose in Toronto. I can write ~50 pages what a moron and imbecile Casey was. But that's history. Piston's head coach job is the last he will have in the NBA. Still, pretty sad that he derailed JV's development (and many others, Ross comes to mind). In Memphis JV looks happier, he has purpose - to guide young, talented teammates. JV plays with flair, unstoppable in the paint on offense, hits long shots and mid-range shot from any place om the floor. Defense? Sure PnR or PnP still a HUGE problem for him, but not for his teammates. They help JV fighting through screens and attacking the passing lines. While JV collects rebounds and takes care of elite NBA bigs one on one.
Still, my hat goes to nick Nurse. He inherited team, but with DD trade and JV's trade raptors became his team. This season we see results. Raptors defense isnasty, good specialist in all positions, and offense - Raptors have plenty of elite fire power in that department too.
Good job Nurse, it's sad, that Casey was kept too long.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#670 » by TRex520 » Tue Mar 3, 2020 3:59 am

cruwinas wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:Ibaka and Powell are two players Nurse successfully reclaimed after Doofus Casey's horrible coaching chops left them for dead.

Ibaka was forced into playing stretch 4 under Casey. This took him out of the interior where he was at his best (ie. rim protection + better rebounding position + unusually great mid-range), and put him on the perimeter full-time, making him a very streaky and often unreliable "shooter" and poor perimeter defender who couldn't really contribute anything else if his shot wasn't falling. By the time Casey was fired, Ibaka's contract was seen as extremely toxic and he was viewed negatively by the majority of the fanbase. Under Nurse, a lot of his weaknesses as a perimeter player are no longer on display, he's able to contribute something every night, and he's a huge fan favourite among Raptors fans.

Powell is another case of Casey misuse. Doofus loved overplaying washed up veterans like Carroll over Powell, who usually got 25 min in one game and played well, and then received DNPs over the next three. Casey's mishandling of Powell was particularly egregious in his third season: Casey wanted a 3-and-D player at SF, so instead of starting Anunoby who was already showing out in preseason, he went with the ball-dominant undersized SG who could barely shoot at the time. Then after Powell waiting in the corner for kickout passes all game predictably failed in spectacular fashion to start the season, he got glued to the bench and was given scrap garbage time minutes for the rest of the season. Nurse, on the other hand, has not only given Powell lots of minutes consistently and let him play his natural game, but he's deployed him in many ways on-ball and off-ball: driving, cutting, running off screens, even occasionally playing point. Under Nurse, Powell plays with way more confidence than he ever did under Casey, and it shows whenever he plays nowadays.


Look at JV in Memphis. He is actively involved in initiating, screens he set are different from whose in Toronto. I can write ~50 pages what a moron and imbecile Casey was. But that's history. Piston's head coach job is the last he will have in the NBA. Still, pretty sad that he derailed JV's development (and many others, Ross comes to mind). In Memphis JV looks happier, he has purpose - to guide young, talented teammates. JV plays with flair, unstoppable in the paint on offense, hits long shots and mid-range shot from any place om the floor. Defense? Sure PnR or PnP still a HUGE problem for him, but not for his teammates. They help JV fighting through screens and attacking the passing lines. While JV collects rebounds and takes care of elite NBA bigs one on one.
Still, my hat goes to nick Nurse. He inherited team, but with DD trade and JV's trade raptors became his team. This season we see results. Raptors defense isnasty, good specialist in all positions, and offense - Raptors have plenty of elite fire power in that department too.
Good job Nurse, it's sad, that Casey was kept too long.

Here is the list of casualty cause of Casey:

Norm, Serge, DeMar, JV, T-Ross, Pascal, PJ Tucker. They all have improved, put into roles and situations they are better at. All those stubborness, hockey line-change substitutions are not going to work.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#671 » by cruwinas » Tue Mar 3, 2020 4:16 am

James Johnson... and a dozen more.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#672 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Mar 5, 2020 4:33 am

jonas averaging 15 pts/17 rbds in his last 5 games. memphis with a 39 point win over brooklyn tonight. call me crazy but i think they could cause the lakers problems in the playoffs.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#673 » by AkelaLoneWolf » Thu Mar 5, 2020 4:39 am

lobosloboslobos wrote:jonas averaging 15 pts/17 rbds in his last 5 games. memphis with a 39 point win over brooklyn tonight. call me crazy but i think they could cause the lakers problems in the playoffs.

yup..def want to see the JV v. AD matchup....espn will want lebron v. zion tho...
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#674 » by nitrous » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:37 am

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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#675 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Mar 5, 2020 1:08 pm

nitrous wrote:
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you have to wonder if that line has ever been achieved before. seems like it could only happen in today's nba. crazy.
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#676 » by cruwinas » Thu Mar 5, 2020 4:22 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:jonas averaging 15 pts/17 rbds in his last 5 games. memphis with a 39 point win over brooklyn tonight. call me crazy but i think they could cause the lakers problems in the playoffs.


Memphis just kicked Lakers arses at home 105 - 88. Without starting PF JJJ and couple other guys missing.

Once again, JV reminded AD who is his father.

JV's role in Memphis is much wider: initiates offense, dribble hand-offs, sets screens differently. He looks happier, lighter feels that team appreciates his effort.
Oh, and JV always plays BETTER in play-offs. Memphis is young and loaded. some mishap for Lakers (guys getting hurt ) - and who knows what can happen. JA is unbelievable, JJJ - very good. Of course, their starting center JV is "unplayable", but that's not the worst that can happen. Memphis averages most assist in a league - I imagine Casey puking his guts now. "Iso ball is the way to go, look at my Pistons and our success. Stupid Grizzlies." ;)
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#677 » by niQ » Thu Mar 5, 2020 9:10 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:
nitrous wrote:
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you have to wonder if that line has ever been achieved before. seems like it could only happen in today's nba. crazy.


https://clutchpoints.com/jazz-news-bojan-bogdanovic-becomes-1st-player-achieve-rare-feat-with-35-point-game-vs-pelicans/

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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#678 » by Rhythm043 » Fri Mar 6, 2020 12:07 am

On Gerald Henderson vs Derozan:
"Yes. Hendo is quite a bit better than DeMar.
So yes, I do believe he's currently the better player and do project that will continue to be in the future. I would also take Turner over DD."
--Throwback24,Jan 2014
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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#679 » by TheRealDeal » Sat Mar 7, 2020 2:12 am

JV's been rebounding the **** out of the ball lately

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Re: Former Raptor discussion thread 2.0 

Post#680 » by Rhythm043 » Sun Mar 8, 2020 1:53 am

On Gerald Henderson vs Derozan:
"Yes. Hendo is quite a bit better than DeMar.
So yes, I do believe he's currently the better player and do project that will continue to be in the future. I would also take Turner over DD."
--Throwback24,Jan 2014

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