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We need to start a discussion

That difference in 3P tho! That plus lower turnovers and the fact that charges taken isn't even considered makes me think this is a wrap
Raptor Lowry > Bad Boy Isiah

Put him in the hall of fame

Anyone else cringe as soon as IT starts to talk?

Lmaooo... And yet all these players praise Isaiah like he's some demigod and talk about Lowry as if he's a mediocre role player. It's **** absurd. Never understood why Lowry was so disrespected in mainstream basketball circles.

Zeke's a first ballot.

This is silly.

you can't rely on comparing stats between players from 2 different eras

Isiah has a case in any discussion for best PG's of all time... Lowry not so much

NBJ13 wrote:you can't rely on comparing stats between players from 2 different eras

It's pace adjusted and Lowry has better advanced stats across the boards.

NBJ13 wrote:Isiah has a case in any discussion for best PG's of all time... Lowry not so much

So the make case for Zeke because the numbers above don't. They say Lowry is clearly better.

NBJ13 wrote:you can't rely on comparing stats between players from 2 different eras

Isiah has a case in any discussion for best PG's of all time... Lowry not so much

lol I get your point but thats such an exaggeration. Its like saying Clyde is in the discussion for best SG of all time, just no.

416 wrote:

NBJ13 wrote:you can't rely on comparing stats between players from 2 different eras

Isiah has a case in any discussion for best PG's of all time... Lowry not so much

lol I get your point but thats such an exaggeration. Its like saying Clyde is in the discussion for best SG of all time, just no.

Really? I think a lot of fans who have been around long enough to see Clyde would say he was absolutely one of the best shooting guards ever. He got the Blazers to the Finals as the #1.

As I've said before Kyle is already a Hall of Fame lock and I'm just waiting for him to be recognized as one of the 100 best players of all time at this point.

Isiah is probably underrated nowadays and I'm surprised the scoring numbers are that close but from everything I've seen (I'm not old enough to have watched him play live) Isiah was a great mid range shooter and an absolutely elite slasher and finisher while not being as good a passer.

Isiah is like Kyrie Irving but he actually played defense hard and was a leader.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Zeke's a first ballot.

This is silly.

It's silly that Zeke is a first ballot tbh

Metallikid wrote:

416 wrote:

NBJ13 wrote:you can't rely on comparing stats between players from 2 different eras

Isiah has a case in any discussion for best PG's of all time... Lowry not so much

lol I get your point but thats such an exaggeration. Its like saying Clyde is in the discussion for best SG of all time, just no.

Really? I think a lot of fans who have been around long enough to see Clyde would say he was absolutely one of the best shooting guards ever. He got the Blazers to the Finals as the #1.

He is one of the best ever. I watched him. But he isnt in the greatest of all time discussion at all which is what I think someone claimed for Isiah at least at PG.

Great post, and I do agree Lowry has been completely underrated throughout most of his career.

Metallikid wrote:As I've said before Kyle is already a Hall of Fame lock and I'm just waiting for him to be recognized as one of the 100 best players of all time at this point.

Isiah is probably underrated nowadays and I'm surprised the scoring numbers are that close but from everything I've seen (I'm not old enough to have watched him play live) Isiah was a great mid range shooter and an absolutely elite slasher and finisher while not being as good a passer.

Isiah is like Kyrie Irving but he actually played defense hard and was a leader.

Isiah's defense wasn't noteworthy, above average at best. He did a good job of leading those Pistons teams, but also got pouty when he couldn't get his way as he drove Adrian Dantley out of town because he didn't like sharing the spotlight (which worked out as they got a great role player in Mark Aguirre). Also I don't believe the gap between Isiah and Dumars was all that large, but Dumars was a team player and did whatever it took for his team to win. He was the Bradley Beal of that generation with top tier defense.

It's worth noting that Allen Iverson modeled his game after Isiah Thomas. Isiah had chucking tendencies, but made up for it with excellent playmaking. His game is a lot like Chris Paul, down to his habit to ISO, dance, and settle for mid rangers.

Basketball reference currently has Lowry's hall of fame probability at 65%. A couple more good years as a starter followed by a couple years as a solid rotation player will probably be enough to get him in.

He's been a very good player on a very good team for a very long time. His reputation took a hit because of team playoff failures but with a ring now, that negative playoff perception is gone.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

NBJ13 wrote:you can't rely on comparing stats between players from 2 different eras

Isiah has a case in any discussion for best PG's of all time... Lowry not so much

I think the fact the Bad Boys (one of the best teams ever) were way better than our team pre Kawhi helps Isiah's case here vs his individual talent.

As much as I love Lowry, Isiah is in a different league. I wonder how many of you have actually seen IT play. Numbers might be similar but it was a completely different game back then. Lowry will go down as a very good player who played a pivotal role in our Championship run. But Zeke is a true HoF who actually carried his team through out his career. Sure we all hated him as a GM, but let's not let that crowd our judgement.

3Si wrote:As much as I love Lowry, Isiah is in a different league. I wonder how many of you have actually seen IT play. Numbers might be similar but it was a completely different game back then. Lowry will go down as a very good player who played a pivotal role in our Championship run. But Zeke is a true HoF who actually carried his team through out his career. Sure we all hated him as a GM, but let's not let that crowd our judgement.

True, but not only has Lowry put up some great numbers during his stint in Toronto, but he's been an advanced stat and intangibles king - leading the league in charges multiple teams, among the league leaders in RPM, in deflections etc.

He was the best player on a team that has had the 2nd best record in the NBA over the course of a 5 year span, just after the Warriors. That is very, very impressive.

Anybody who's followed the Raptors closely knows that Lowry has been the engine of our great teams - without him and we fall apart.

The only thing holding Lowry back from getting into the HOF is the perception of him as a playoff choker which has way overblown. I think only after this recent playoff stint has the American media starting noticing and appreciating who Lowry is as a player. Now we are finally seeing people acknowledge how vital Lowry is to the team and how great of a two-way player he actually is - something we have noticed for years now, but very few who have not followed our team closely have noticed.

IT won 2 NBA Championships as leader of those teams and was Finals MVP in one of them; 3x First Team All NBA, 2x Second Team All NBA; 12x All Star and led the NBA in assists for one year.

IT is also devious, underhanded, a cunning back stabber and an overall jerk. But he is still one of the best players ever. Lowry is not in that league.