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The reality is he and his agent will seek the 5year/170 million deal next offseason and cite Ben Simmons and Jamal Murray. Neither of which are the best players on their team, but still got the max very quickly by the teams they were drafted in. I'm fairly certain a large portion of the Raptors' fanbase would rank Siakam above these 2 players as well, even if they don't want him to take 34 million a year on average of the salary cap. But the market dictates the price, and Siakam isn't working this hard to improve, to not secure the full bag.

Then the scrutiny and microscope will come much harder as Pascal Siakam will be the highest paid player in Raptors history.

Let's say he take a positive step and becomes a serviceable #1 option who has a strong regular season, but with clear flaws in that role in the playoffs. Would you risk trying to bargain him down to sub 30 million (12%-15% less than max per annum) in risk of him balking and souring the relationship with an uncertain core of players remaining after this season, or just do what the Sixers/Nuggets did and give their guy the max without any haggling?

vbmeer wrote:Let's say he take a positive step and becomes a serviceable #1 option who has a strong regular season, but with clear flaws in that role in the playoffs. Would you risk trying to bargain him down to sub 30 million (12%-15% less than max per annum) in risk of him balking and souring the relationship with an uncertain core of players remaining after this season?

Yes.

There's no reason to pay now. Salary cap flexibility, a year of injury insurance and Siakam can prove that he's a genuine star (who are actually underpaid in the salary cap system, rather than paying him his actual value right now).

It's still so hard to believe that this guy is on the verge of becoming the highest paid Raptor ever. What a find by the scouts.

lolwut wrote:It's still so hard to believe that this guy is on the verge of becoming the highest paid Raptor ever. What a find by the scouts.

It's interesting that in '15 and '16, the lower drafted player was actually the one that vastly exceeded expectations and fit into the long-term plans of the team (Delon/Norm + Jak/Pascal)

He's going to be so good. Can't wait.

He also has horrible FA market thing going for him so yeah, I can definitely see it

vbmeer wrote:The reality is he and his agent will seek the 5year/170 million deal next offseason and cite Ben Simmons and Jamal Murray. Neither of which are the best players on their team, but still got the max very quickly by the teams they were drafted in. I'm fairly certain a large portion of the Raptors' fanbase would rank Siakam above these 2 players as well, even if they don't want him to take 34 million a year on average of the salary cap. But the market dictates the price, and Siakam isn't working this hard to improve, to not secure the full bag.

Then the scrutiny and microscope will come much harder as Pascal Siakam will be the highest paid player in Raptors history.

Let's say he take a positive step and becomes a serviceable #1 option who has a strong regular season, but with clear flaws in that role in the playoffs. Would you risk trying to bargain him down to sub 30 million (12%-15% less than max per annum) in risk of him balking and souring the relationship with an uncertain core of players remaining after this season, or just do what the Sixers/Nuggets did and give their guy the max without any haggling?

I am of the belief that you let the person play out the contract. We still control his rights and can match any offer. We will have little money on the books next year so let's see what the market offers. Doing the extension now mitigates some of the monetary risk, but what if he gets injured or under performs? I prefer to let people play out their contract and see what happens. Masai can be aggressive Day One of free agency.

Likely this is not even a decision for Toronto. If Pascal's agent wants a max deal there is little you can do about an extension.

Pay the man his money. He's already delivered a championship, there's nothing to regret even if he becomes overpaid.

I feel like a few months ago everyone was telling me he was worth 4 years 80 million.

I personally would have thought locking him in for $20-22M/yr like Serge near the end of last season would have done it but now the fact the franchise has lost Kawhi and all the other guys will just be too old, Pascal with great luck/fortune has/will become the default "guy" here but really he's NOT a franchise player and I think $170M is just a flat out overpay and wouldn't do it, not setting the precedent to ridiculously overpay good but not elite talent. This is a championship franchise, time to start acting like it paying guys what they're worth, not damn near bribing/begging them to stay.


Not saying it won't happen because a couple of ridiculous contracts/overpays happened this summer ie/ Middleton & Tobias Harris but a number closer to what D'ANGELO RUSSEL is making which is about $29M/year should be MORE than enough. That's the absolute ceiling for me and wouldn't actually be the number I pursue/push for.

That's still big money for a guy who still hasn't technically become an all-star yet and who's ceiling is 2nd best player on a championship team (for his homers please don't waste time trying to debate me on that, idc I won't agree).

So what I personally think Pascal is worth present day is $130M/5yr but I understand again due to him becoming our default "guy" I think they'll try to push for a bit more but I top out at $140-145M/5yr and I tell his camp a have a couple of justifications 1. Your direct competition for MIP in Russell just got $29M/yr despite being younger with more time to improve and 2. It would still put you up there with DeMar for highest paid Raptor of all time. DD has never even made $29M/yr and was a multiple time all-star BEFORE getting his contract and yet you're getting a similar figure...don't get greedy. $170M is out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

Also to note that I forgot to mention, even the oft-injured and significant question mark Kristaps Porzingis got a 5 year, 158 million extension (max for Dallas as they didn't draft him) this summer for a more direct forward rather than guard comparison of the first contract extension scenario players.

This is one of those situations where you have no choice but to overpay. He's yet to prove he is a #1 guy but the market is dictating he will get the max, we can't realistically expect to replace his production for less money, and losing him would take us out of the playoffs.

On the flip side, he has the potential to grow into a #1 guy and may prove to be underpaid by league standards towards the end of the contract.

This is a formality and I won't bat an eye about it. Let's see what pieces we get to build around him.

unless there is a deal in the 5yr 150$ mil range right now, i rather just take him to free agency next year.

at that point the worst case scenario is that we match a 3+1 deal.

including this year and the 3 years after that, we would have him for his 25-29 years of age.

That's fair value.

PhilBlackson wrote:I personally would have thought locking him in for $20-22M/yr like Serge near the end of last season would have done it but now the fact the franchise has lost Kawhi and all the other guys will just be too old, Pascal with great luck/fortune has/will become the default "guy" here but really he's NOT a franchise player and I think $170M is just a flat out overpay and wouldn't do it, not setting the precedent to ridiculously overpay good but not elite talent. This is a championship franchise, time to start acting like it paying guys what they're worth, not damn near bribing/begging them to stay.


Not saying it won't happen because a couple of ridiculous contracts/overpays happened this summer ie/ Middleton & Tobias Harris but a number closer to what D'ANGELO RUSSEL is making which is about $29M/year should be MORE than enough. That's the absolute ceiling for me and wouldn't actually be the number I pursue/push for.

That's still big money for a guy who still hasn't technically become an all-star yet and who's ceiling is 2nd best player on a championship team (for his homers please don't waste time trying to debate me on that, idc I won't agree).

So what I personally think Pascal is worth present day is $130M/5yr but I understand again due to him becoming our default "guy" I think they'll try to push for a bit more but I top out at $140-145M/5yr and I tell his camp a have a couple of justifications 1. Your direct competition for MIP in Russell just got $29M/yr despite being younger with more time to improve and 2. It would still put you up there with DeMar for highest paid Raptor of all time. DD has never even made $29M/yr and was a multiple time all-star BEFORE getting his contract and yet you're getting a similar figure...don't get greedy. $170M is out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

The argument that he would have (and the Raptors fanbase would have when getting into arguments with other fanbases when wanting to prop up their guy versus the other team's guy. *of course until the talk of contract extension money comes about*) is none of Ben Simmons, Murray, or Porzingis have shown they are #1 options for champion-level teams either and the difference is that he was the #2 guy in an actual champion team where in a market #2 and even #3 guys are getting the max.

PhilBlackson wrote:I personally would have thought locking him in for $20-22M/yr like Serge near the end of last season would have done it but now the fact the franchise has lost Kawhi and all the other guys will just be too old, Pascal with great luck/fortune has/will become the default "guy" here but really he's NOT a franchise player and I think $170M is just a flat out overpay and wouldn't do it, not setting the precedent to ridiculously overpay good but not elite talent. This is a championship franchise, time to start acting like it paying guys what they're worth, not damn near bribing/begging them to stay.


Not saying it won't happen because a couple of ridiculous contracts/overpays happened this summer ie/ Middleton & Tobias Harris but a number closer to what D'ANGELO RUSSEL is making which is about $29M/year should be MORE than enough. That's the absolute ceiling for me and wouldn't actually be the number I pursue/push for.

That's still big money for a guy who still hasn't technically become an all-star yet and who's ceiling is 2nd best player on a championship team (for his homers please don't waste time trying to debate me on that, idc I won't agree).

So what I personally think Pascal is worth present day is $130M/5yr but I understand again due to him becoming our default "guy" I think they'll try to push for a bit more but I top out at $140-145M/5yr and I tell his camp a have a couple of justifications 1. Your direct competition for MIP in Russell just got $29M/yr despite being younger with more time to improve and 2. It would still put you up there with DeMar for highest paid Raptor of all time. DD has never even made $29M/yr and was a multiple time all-star BEFORE getting his contract and yet you're getting a similar figure...don't get greedy. $170M is out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

Lol time to start acting like a championship franchise by letting your best player go ? Sure bud. It's simple. Give him the max or someone else will.

170 million of someone else's money is fine by me as long as I can still watch for free.

Dalek wrote:

vbmeer wrote:The reality is he and his agent will seek the 5year/170 million deal next offseason and cite Ben Simmons and Jamal Murray. Neither of which are the best players on their team, but still got the max very quickly by the teams they were drafted in. I'm fairly certain a large portion of the Raptors' fanbase would rank Siakam above these 2 players as well, even if they don't want him to take 34 million a year on average of the salary cap. But the market dictates the price, and Siakam isn't working this hard to improve, to not secure the full bag.

Then the scrutiny and microscope will come much harder as Pascal Siakam will be the highest paid player in Raptors history.

Let's say he take a positive step and becomes a serviceable #1 option who has a strong regular season, but with clear flaws in that role in the playoffs. Would you risk trying to bargain him down to sub 30 million (12%-15% less than max per annum) in risk of him balking and souring the relationship with an uncertain core of players remaining after this season, or just do what the Sixers/Nuggets did and give their guy the max without any haggling?

I am of the belief that you let the person play out the contract. We still control his rights and can match any offer. We will have little money on the books next year so let's see what the market offers. Doing the extension now mitigates some of the monetary risk, but what if he gets injured or under performs? I prefer to let people play out their contract and see what happens. Masai can be aggressive Day One of free agency.

Likely this is not even a decision for Toronto. If Pascal's agent wants a max deal there is little you can do about an extension.

absolutely. He will get the max, from Toronto, and if he liked winning a title then he will happily support maximizing cap flexibility by waiting.

170 million for a guy who's only had ONE good year and hasnt even been an All-Star yet. Sure! Why not. Give him $300 million even! and a key to the city! and His own private Island in Hawaii! SMH. The amount of homerism on this board is approaching ridiculous levels. Lets wait AFTER this year to see if this guy can actually become a #1 option and make the All-Star team. Last year he was great for sure but lets not forget that he was playing beside a top 3 player in the world attracting double and triple teams on every possession. I need to see him repeat last years numbers AS A #1 OPTION before i crown him the King of Toronto.

Honestly if I’m him and the team I’m really pushing for an extension where you give up 5-10% of the money but that way you don’t risk injury and cost yourself 100 million but the team gets a little discount