With hindsight, in a wierd way, are you kinda glad Colangelo was our GM before Masai?

howlin mad axer · Post #21 » by **howlin mad axer** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:25 pm

Colangelo''s failures paved the row for Ujiri... does that make sense?

ConSarnit · Post #22 » by **ConSarnit** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:49 pm

Colangelo was good in the sense that if all of your previous partners gave you an std, at least he only gave you clamydia. I guess Babcock would be HIV.

Pre-Masai this franchise was actually a pretty big joke in terms of management and coaching.

ruckus · Post #23 » by **ruckus** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:38 pm

That would be like saying "aren't you kinda glad Babcock traded Vince for peanuts because now we have a championship because of it?"

First Step · Post #24 » by **First Step** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:14 pm

If we can learn one thing from Colangelo, it's that a team full of soft European guys won't work well in the NBA.

TheAlchemist · Post #25 » by **TheAlchemist** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:14 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
TheAlchemist wrote:2. He had a decent draft record. Was it the best with bustnani? No. But it was good. We're talking DeMar, Jonas (with rumors of us inquiring about Kawhi), and so forth. Tross over Drummond sucked, but we really wanted Barnes.
.

In total... He drafted Ross, DD, JV and Ed Davis in 7 years. That's trash. There is one good pick there for the draft spots.

Jonas was never and will never be a trash pick. Ed Davis, while I definitely agree is hot garbage, was the third best player from the 12th spot to the 30th spot.

Players picked after Ed: Patrick Patterson, Larry Sanders, Luke Babibt, Kevin Seraphin, Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, James Anderson, Craig Brackins, Elliot Williams, and Trever booker.

Aside from Avery Bradley and Eric Bledsoe, Davis is the best. Everyone else is out the league and 2Pat is making minimum salary.

Colangelo was decent in drafting. Now trades and using Cap flexibility, as well as honing in on chemistry... boy, there was a lot to learn.

Kabookalu · Post #26 » by **Kabookalu** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:22 pm

If we're looking at this solely in the perspective of his contributions towards the championship, sure he gave us Lowry, but he used the draft pick that would have netted us Giannis. Lowry is undoubtedly the best player in franchise history, though Giannis is going to go down as one of the best players of all time, only 24 years old and already an MVP with a lot of room for growth. Now maybe Giannis doesn't develop into the player with us the way he did for the Bucks, but it's not like they're the Spurs, they're not known for their developmental department so I can't imagine him veering too far off.

So there's that. We may have also entered the Masai era with both Lowry and Giannis, if Colangelo didn't hand away assets for free and gave Masai nothing to work with.

2019nbachamps · Post #27 » by **2019nbachamps** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:53 pm

Colangelo was a lot like Brian Burke with the Leafs. Two charismatic GMs that were very lucky prior to coming to Toronto and both of them ended up being exposed as the over-rated sports executives that they are.

Johnny Bball · Post #28 » by **Johnny Bball** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:16 pm

TheAlchemist wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
TheAlchemist wrote:2. He had a decent draft record. Was it the best with bustnani? No. But it was good. We're talking DeMar, Jonas (with rumors of us inquiring about Kawhi), and so forth. Tross over Drummond sucked, but we really wanted Barnes.
.

In total... He drafted Ross, DD, JV and Ed Davis in 7 years. That's trash. There is one good pick there for the draft spots.

Jonas was never and will never be a trash pick. Ed Davis, while I definitely agree is hot garbage, was the third best player from the 12th spot to the 30th spot.

Players picked after Ed: Patrick Patterson, Larry Sanders, Luke Babibt, Kevin Seraphin, Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, James Anderson, Craig Brackins, Elliot Williams, and Trever booker.

Aside from Avery Bradley and Eric Bledsoe, Davis is the best. Everyone else is out the league and 2Pat is making minimum salary.

Colangelo was decent in drafting. Now trades and using Cap flexibility, as well as honing in on chemistry... boy, there was a lot to learn.

Nice try. I said the result was trash over 7 years was trash :roll:

Decent? It that the line now that you defend the guy? He wasn't good at drafting. We wasn't good at identifying talent in any way. He was even worse at identifying NBA talent. You would be hard pressed to get a worse result with those picks if you gave them to anyone here and gave them his resources. He got nothing outside the first round of the draft of any substance. He had no patience. He was worse at the rest. Building, hiring, cap management, culture.... there was nothing that man succeeded at.

He managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in Philly when they were right on the goal line.

macNcheese3 · Post #29 » by **macNcheese3** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:18 pm

First Step wrote:If we can learn one thing from Colangelo, it's that a team full of soft European guys won't work well in the NBA.

At that time it wouldn’t of worked and quite clearly didn’t. The game has now changed. Garbo was from Europe and he was a stud. Smart player, good playmaker/passer and worked his but off. That injury literally ruined his career. He also had a sweet jump shot.

Bargs was just something else. He had no fire, and absolutely had no right being taken as the first pick over guys like Aldridge.

dafan590 · Post #30 » by **dafan590** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:35 pm

new burner account eh?

TorontoRapsFan · Post #31 » by **TorontoRapsFan** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:58 am

Vampirate wrote:The guy definitely had his faults and he would not have gotten us anywhere close to what Masai has taken us.

However, in a weird about fashion, Colangelo was unintentionally a big part of that Raptors Championship (nowhere near as Masai obv).

Without Colangelo, we would not have Lowry. No Lowry means no frustrations in the playoffs, means no eventual climb to where Masai takes the plunge on Kawhi and eventually trading for Gasol.

As well, if there was a more competent GM in place of Colangelo, would he have gotten fired and would we have Masai as our GM in the first place?

Without Colangelo Toronto doesn't get Masai. BC hired Masai :cheesygrin:

refshateRaps · Post #32 » by **refshateRaps** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:03 am

Gawd no

Colangelo was a free loading disaster

tor1234567 · Post #33 » by **tor1234567** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:38 am

bluerap23 wrote:
lolwut wrote:
Vampirate wrote:The guy definitely had his faults and he would not have gotten us anywhere close to what Masai has taken us.

However, in a weird about fashion, Colangelo was unintentionally a big part of that Raptors Championship (nowhere near as Masai obv).

Without Colangelo, we would not have Lowry. No Lowry means no frustrations in the playoffs, means no eventual climb to where Masai takes the plunge on Kawhi and eventually trading for Gasol.

As well, if there was a more competent GM in place of Colangelo, would he have gotten fired and would we have Masai as our GM in the first place?

Umm no.

That's like saying it's a good thing that Hitler happened, because without him, we wouldn't have modern Germany.

Not the same at all

Many can argue that it's the exact same thing.

tor1234567 · Post #34 » by **tor1234567** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:46 am

arneil wrote:I wouldnt say Im mad or glad. I mean, Colangelo did draft Bargs which was...horrible. But, in defense of Colangelo if you ever youtube Bargs summer league play before his rookie yr he looked really good. But also under Colangelo we were a decently productive team. We made it to the playoffs which was at the very least, in my mind, exciting to watch. I went to one of the games against the Nets and the ACC was COMPLETELY nuts! And are team wasn't terrible. The easter conference, especially the Atlantic division was **** in those days. But when you look at past Raps teams that had the likes of Arujo, Loren Woods, Mike James for god sakes. I mean...the Colangelo era wasn't all THAT bad.

Ummmm...

When Colangelo joined the Raptors, he immediately had:
- The #1 pick in the draft
- A lot of cap space
- A 22 year old All-star and US Olympian
- The runner up Rookie of the year

And his goal was to "make the playoffs" in what was arguably the weakest Eastern Conference in NBA history (with our division being known as the Titanic division).

He ended up making trades and free agent signing for veterans, which obviously got us into the pathetic Eastern Conference playoffs.

Then... He had no plan after that.
It was all trial and error.

The goal should have never been to simply make the playoffs. He went for the cheap "quick win" and plateaued the team immediately.

Can you imagine if Masai was the GM with that many assets?

XxIronChainzxX · Post #35 » by **XxIronChainzxX** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:58 am

Vampirate wrote:The guy definitely had his faults and he would not have gotten us anywhere close to what Masai has taken us.

However, in a weird about fashion, Colangelo was unintentionally a big part of that Raptors Championship (nowhere near as Masai obv).

Without Colangelo, we would not have Lowry. No Lowry means no frustrations in the playoffs, means no eventual climb to where Masai takes the plunge on Kawhi and eventually trading for Gasol.

As well, if there was a more competent GM in place of Colangelo, would he have gotten fired and would we have Masai as our GM in the first place?

If we had Masai instead of Colangelo, when we had CB4 and the #1 pick, we might have been an ECF / Finals contender. Masai may have taken Aldridge or Roy, and that would go a LONG way toward having a real NBA team.

Masai fixing Colangelo's mess and keeping the worthwhile piece is what makes him an elite bball mind.

Dennis 37 · Post #36 » by **Dennis 37** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:36 pm

arneil wrote:I wouldnt say Im mad or glad. I mean, Colangelo did draft Bargs which was...horrible. But, in defense of Colangelo if you ever youtube Bargs summer league play before his rookie yr he looked really good. But also under Colangelo we were a decently productive team. We made it to the playoffs which was at the very least, in my mind, exciting to watch. I went to one of the games against the Nets and the ACC was COMPLETELY nuts! And are team wasn't terrible. The easter conference, especially the Atlantic division was **** in those days. But when you look at past Raps teams that had the likes of Arujo, Loren Woods, Mike James for god sakes. I mean...the Colangelo era wasn't all THAT bad.

It was because of Colangelo that Bargnani was coddled. He took a player with potential and turned him into mush because he wouldn't let coaches hold him accountable.

The GM bar was so low for us, Colangelo looked good at the time, but he wasn't.

Zeno · Post #37 » by **Zeno** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:43 pm

Colangelo had this habit of referring to players as "pieces" and that is what our roster was in when he was here. He had no idea how to construct a team, he just threw players together and hoped it worked.

MikeMars · Post #38 » by **MikeMars** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:06 pm

howlin mad axer wrote:Colangelo''s failures paved the row for Ujiri... does that make sense?

Colangelo didnt fail. We did. He was a consensus GM, hanging out on realGM getting the pulse of everything, and we got it wrong, Sam Mitchell shouldnt have been fired, TJ Ford shouldnt have been traded, and Bargnani wasnt the guy to build around. Thats on the GM, RealGM.

tor1234567 · Post #39 » by **tor1234567** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:24 pm

You guys should ask Philly fans this question.

He singlehandidly ended The Process, about one year shy of what was about to become a perrenial championship core.

revvolutions · Post #40 » by **revvolutions** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:33 pm

ConSarnit wrote:Colangelo was good in the sense that if all of your previous partners gave you an std, at least he only gave you clamydia. I guess Babcock would be HIV.

Pre-Masai this franchise was actually a pretty big joke in terms of management and coaching.

BC gave us chlamydia, the best of the sexually transmitted diseases.