Dumbest trades in Raptors history?

[Hungry]

Vince was by far the worst.....set us back YEARS that trade did.

Trade occurred in Dec. 2004. Raptors were back in the playoffs two years and five months later - April, 2007.

But consider the entire sequence of the JO trade, commencing with his acquisition in the summer of 2008. Raptors weren't back in the playoffs until April 2014 - nearly six years later.

I want to mention one more highly questionable trade made by Wayne Embry - Jalen Rose and a 2006 FRP for cap space in the 2006-2007 season. As I mentioned above, Colangelo when he came in was able to sign AP and Garbo, who helped us get into the playoffs that season. But why even go for the playoffs? We just got the overall first in 2006, and had already traded a protected 2007 pick. Why not keep Rose, keep the extra 2006 pick from the Vince trade (could have drafted Lowry or Rondo, although BC had eyes on Fatty McLaptop), and tank the 2006-2007 season to get in on the Oden-Durant (and Horford and Noah) sweepstakes?

So many forks in the road, and this franchise took the wrong direction every time. Before Masai.

Terrific point on the Rose trade and perhaps rushing a rebuild with Parker, Garbo (and Rasho trade). The team was bare bones from the Carter competing years. You can really see this with the 03/04 team which post Rose/Marshall trade had a strong top 4 but essentially zero depth or prospects (Bosh aside). On top of that they then used a top 10 pick on someone with no chance of being a rotational player, and got minimal assets helpful for the rebuild dealing their franchise player. Post Carter trade you're looking at a rebuild of Bosh and...Bonner as the only other player you can even loosely call a prospect.

The 2 2005 firsts and signing Jose finally provided some young players but they really could have used at least one more year after that, and the extra 06 first would have helped. Assuming Colangelo still comes on, you roll out a core of TJ, Bosh, Bargs with some other young players and see where the season takes you (not far I would assume) and get another top 10 pick.

As you've touched on, going for the playoffs so soon really was unnecessary. Fundamentally I wouldn't use capspace on 30 year olds when I have a young superstar. As your best player is hitting his peak, his supporting cast is getting worse which is completely backwards and your left with no room to add other players. Admittedly I would then never have added a 30 year old PG to a great young core of Amare, Marion and JJ so what do I really know lol?

[tor1234567]

This Oakley-Camby debate is great.

I'm conflicted, I see and agree with both sides.

Oak was a vet presence that helped us win our first playoff series, thats huge. Aagainst the team he was traded ffrom... if W/L's determine victory, then Oak wins. Also, when evaluating Oak, you have to factor in value for him helping VC truly become VC. We all know Vince praised the protection he got from Oak / Willis / AD... but Oak in particular. Some of VC's shine (even just a little) is due to Oak... we saw some of the most electrifying stuff EVER in the NBA, and Oak was on the floor for a lot of it. He did help VC get his game off, so I'm forever an Oak fan.

On the flip side. Is Camby injury prone? Sure. But he still became mostly good then bad when on the court. He went on to have a pretty decent, long career.. spliced in with the occasional really good year. If you were to ask me today what I would do? I would say you try to roll with VC-TMac-Camby, and find vets elsewhere. However, I could be dead wrong. We have all sign teams filled with too many kids not really develop into much. Hard to say.

Its easy to see this from both sides;
Looking at this deal from a historic perspective, its easy to state it was awful;

Seeing the way the team played after Oak was added to the locker room made me quite content with the deal at the time.

Its not as bad as it appears on paper in 2019 but it wasn't exactly incredible.

It would be like us trading Lowry to Phoenix for Booker, and then the Suns suddenly go from joke franchise to playoffs...then in a couple seasons they get home court, win a series and go to Game 7 in the Western Conference semis.

Whereas Booker never ends up being anything too impactful, despite the "potential" of being a part of a great future core we never become anything other than a first round treadmill team.

[kalel123]

I have to question whether people who list Camby for Oakley trade as one of the worst actually followed the Raptors at the time.

Oakley was a real difference maker with his play and vet presence for good number of years when he got here. That's not something you can easily find. Oak certainly wasn't part of the problem that during that era and I can confidently say we wouldn't have won nearly as many games with Camby.

[2019nbachamps]

I have to question whether people who list Camby for Oakley trade as one of the worst actually followed the Raptors at the time.

Oakley was a real difference maker with his play and vet presence for good number of years when he got here. That's not something you can easily find. Oak certainly wasn't part of the problem that during that era and I can confidently say we wouldn't have won nearly as many games with Camby.

That was the narrative at the time (and obviously by some today). It makes sense considering Toronto is a hockey town with the mentality that every team needs an enforcer. Oakley was popular at a time when Tie Domi was a huge fan favourite for the Leafs.

That being said, despite his leadership, Oakley was not that great on the court. Remember vs the 76ers he missed a bunch of easy looks including I believe a layup in game 7 (we lost by 1 point).

It didn't really make sense to trade a #2 overall pick for a veteran guy like that. If we wanted that sort of leadership we could have easily found it in free agency or by trading a less valuable player than Camby. It came as no surprise that Oakley was out of the league just a few years after leaving the Raptors. Meanwhile, Camby powered through his injury woes to play another 14 (fourteen!) years in what proved to be a very respectable NBA career (he fell short of expectations but was still regarded very highly around the league).

All this to say, it was a dumb trade.

[NeoDragonKnight]

I swear people have revisionist history regarding Cambys 5 years post Raptors. He had 1 good playoff run with the Knicks and that was it until he had a decent run with Denver. People quote his numbers but fail to see how many games he missed afterwards, not only that, but if Camby was so good, why did the Knicks lose the next series against the Raptors and did not make the playoffs the next 2 years afterwards? Look at his game totals post Raptors, 46, 59, 63, 29 and 29. If he stayed, he would not have helped the Raptors as he would be rotting on the sidelines when they needed him most, the Knicks were already a playoff team with solid vets, the Raptors were not ready to make the playoffs if Camby was sitting out all those games.

Like I get people think we could have gotten more for him, which is debatable, fine, I totally get that argument (again, I dont think it was a disaster like people make it out to be). But people need to stop pretending if he stayed, he would have actually helped the Raptors long term, or use the fact he was good in Denver to erase the horrible years before that. The facts were, he was injured the next 5 years and essentially missed almost 2 entire seasons in a row, and played pretty bad in the playoffs except his first year with the Knicks. Its like saying Grant Hill managed to battle back from injury to have a good career and ignoring his injuries in Orlando and what it did to that team.

I mean look at his drop off after that 1 good playoff run in the next 2 playoffs
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1998-99 24 NYK NBA C 20 3 25.5 4.1 7.2 .566 0.0 0.1 .000 4.1 7.1 .570 .566 2.3 3.7 .616 2.6 5.1 7.7 0.3 1.2 1.9 0.8 3.8 10.4
1999-00 25 NYK NBA C 16 0 24.1 1.8 5.4 .337 0.0 0.1 .000 1.8 5.3 .341 .337 1.2 1.9 .613 2.2 4.8 7.0 0.4 0.5 1.4 0.8 3.2 4.8
2000-01 26 NYK NBA C 4 4 35.3 2.5 6.5 .385 0.0 0.0 2.5 6.5 .385 .385 1.3 3.3 .385 1.0 7.0 8.0 1.8 0.5 2.3 0.5 4.5 6.3

sorry the formating is tough to read. But his fg% dropped from 56% to 33% and 38%. And his PPG droped from 10.4 to 4.8 and 6.3, not to mention his abbysmal FT% against the Raptors was 38.5%!

[Kabookalu]

Like I get people think we could have gotten more for him, which is debatable

No it's not debatable. You can get a lot more from a 2nd overall pick in just his 2nd season that actually showed some worth, than an aging role player on the wrong side of 35. Grunfeld loved trading young players for uninspiring old ones to win now. This worked out really well for us so I'm not bitching about it, but Jonathan Bender was a promising young big that landed in our laps, and he traded him for Antonio Davis. Bender barely played in the NBA afterwards with injury issues and Davis had his best years despite being north of 30, so again it worked in our favor when it was all said and done, though it exemplifies management's mindset at the time.

[2019nbachamps]

Dude, forget about what Camby did after the Raptors. The point is we could've gotten way more for him than Charles Oakley. Period.

[Kingsway_fan]

Oak was so over rated... vince needed athletes around him... he had non...no center. No pg.... horrible managment then.

[NeoDragonKnight]

Yes, I have already said we could have gotten more for him, I already said fine to that. I am responding to people who make Camby out to be someone who would have helped the Raptors while using his stint with Denver as their point, ignoring his injury woes post trade. And just to further this, Camby was traded for equally injured McDyess, his value was at an all time low because of his injuries, the Raptors were right to trade him when they did, just might not have got the value. It is just a huge pet peeve of mine when I read Camby was a beast in Denver! He helped the Knicks that 1 playoffs! The Raptors should have kept him! When in reality his next 5 years was just injury after injury. Sorry, Im just venting.

[NeoDragonKnight]

Oak was so over rated... vince needed athletes around him... he had non...no center. No pg.... horrible managment then.

The problem was the league had a huge shortage of both PGs (and the era of the Scoring PG had not come yet) and Centers at this era, where as almost every single team had a star wing player. Chris Childs and Alvin were actually pretty solid for the time, Alvins emergence and clutchness came out and pushed Marc Jackson out after only half a season. And AD/Keon Clark were pretty athletic mobile bigs when the league was all about big lumbering centers, it is why Davis was an All Star, because he was undersized and used his speed against slower centers, yet still provided solid help defense. What the Raptors needed was an upgrade at the Wing or at PF where we were running Mopete and Oakley. Alvin and Davis were solid. Tmac replacing Mopete, is the obvious answer here.

[SHFT]

Vince was by far the worst.....set us back YEARS that trade did.

Trade occurred in Dec. 2004. Raptors were back in the playoffs two years and five months later - April, 2007.

But consider the entire sequence of the JO trade, commencing with his acquisition in the summer of 2008. Raptors weren't back in the playoffs until April 2014 - nearly six years later.

I want to mention one more highly questionable trade made by Wayne Embry - Jalen Rose and a 2006 FRP for cap space in the 2006-2007 season. As I mentioned above, Colangelo when he came in was able to sign AP and Garbo, who helped us get into the playoffs that season. But why even go for the playoffs? We just got the overall first in 2006, and had already traded a protected 2007 pick. Why not keep Rose, keep the extra 2006 pick from the Vince trade (could have drafted Lowry or Rondo, although BC had eyes on Fatty McLaptop), and tank the 2006-2007 season to get in on the Oden-Durant (and Horford and Noah) sweepstakes?

So many forks in the road, and this franchise took the wrong direction every time. Before Masai.

We made the playoffs in 2007 largely because of 1 man - CB4. If we somehow whiffed on that draft class who knows where we would be right now.

We traded a legit superstar for the following:

Eric Williams
Aaron Williams
Alonzo Mourning (!!!)
2 FRPs - 1 turned into Joey Graham the other was used in another bad trade lol.

Alot of these other trades were swings and misses by the org but a 10 year old would have known we should have gotten a better return for Carter.