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The NBA/China Controversy

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Dennis 37
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#601 » by Dennis 37 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:04 pm

lolwut wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
ropjhk wrote:
I didn't list that because as far as I know the organ harvesting is limited to prisoners who receive capital punishment. I consider that a different category from separatists. Of course anything can still happen to the leaders of the HK protest movement. Maybe one day we'll hear some horrific stories regarding the treatment of HK political prisoners, but until that happens I won't assume the HK protesters will get the Falun Gong treatment.


OK but you seem to be glossing over the fact the Falun Gong prisoners didn't do anything to deserve a death penalty, other than practice a religion.

As for HK dissidents, just being put away for life just for their political opinions is horrific enough.

I'm not pro-China in any way, but Falun Dafa is absolutely a cult. It's a religion in the same way Scientology is a religion. Have you actually read up on their beliefs and their leader? Does this sound like a legitimate religion?
In a much-circulated interview with Time magazine in 1999, Li talked about Falun Gong followers having the power to levitate, and spoke at length about an extraterrestrial invasion. “Since the beginning of this century, aliens have begun to invade the human mind and its ideology and culture,” Li said. When the interviewer asked him if he was a human being, Li’s response was intentionally enigmatic: “You can think of me as a human being.”


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/12/shen-yun-falun-gong-traditional-chinese-dance-troupe-china-doesnt-want-you-to-see

I personally know the girl on the top of this page. We were friends back in high school. I'm not going to go into details about her life, but it's a damn shame that she and her family got roped into this stuff.



You have to be careful comparing anything to Scientology. Scientology is absolutely criminal and has been convicted in an Ontario court of crime.

1. They coerce staff members to have abortions so they can be committed to their work.
2. They send private detectives after critics and harass them at their own homes.
3. They send false claims to employers of critics, "Did you know that your employee is a pedophile?"
4. They drain the bank accounts of their followers and run their debt up to the maximum.
5. They force followers to disconnect from family who do not believe in the cult teachings.

Having space alien back story is not what makes Scientology dangerous, and any reference to the same in Falun Dafa is not what makes it a cult. Cults force their followers to shun (disconnect from) those who leave the cult. Does that happen in Falun Dafa?
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#602 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:08 pm

13th Man wrote:University and college campuses need more Jordan Petersons, he's a goldmine or treasure trove of real substantial information.


Yeah, that is why UofT isn't allowing him to teach anymore. He currently has 1 grad student. The only thing keeping him there is the union. UofT researched the **** out of how to fire him but couldn't find a means so they are preventing him from teaching. My wife is doing a PHD in Psych at UofT. They consider JP an embarrassment.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#603 » by 720 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:25 pm

More than an athlete only if there are no negative financial implications.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#604 » by Hero_Panda » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:47 pm

MadDogSHWA wrote:Yeah, that is why UofT isn't allowing him to teach anymore. He currently has 1 grad student. The only thing keeping him there is the union. UofT researched the **** out of how to fire him but couldn't find a means so they are preventing him from teaching. My wife is doing a PHD in Psych at UofT. They consider JP an embarrassment.


Not surprising, considering how much disdain Peterson has with the way Universities are run now.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#605 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:51 pm

Hero_Panda wrote:
MadDogSHWA wrote:Yeah, that is why UofT isn't allowing him to teach anymore. He currently has 1 grad student. The only thing keeping him there is the union. UofT researched the **** out of how to fire him but couldn't find a means so they are preventing him from teaching. My wife is doing a PHD in Psych at UofT. They consider JP an embarrassment.


Not surprising, considering how much disdain Peterson has with the way Universities are run now.


To be clear it was the transphobic incident that got him soft-fired.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#606 » by lolwut » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:56 pm

whoknows wrote:
lolwut wrote:
whoknows wrote:
If you had your company as a hard working plumber you'd quit when they raise your taxes - why work when welfare pays same but you get to do nothing? You'd also be frustrated that "academics" people stir s$it all day while doing nothing productive/tangible for society while forcing you to work even harder & increase pay to your part-time employee who works when he feels like.

How do you see this as so black and white?

Let's say you're a successful plumber like in your example, and you take home $80K after taxes. Government raises taxes to pay for some social service. Now you make $79K a year.

Instead of continuing to work for that $79K, you'd rather quit and go on welfare?


In your example the increase is 1% but this is not what the left is asking for, they want total government control.
Problem is that left thinks government is better in managing people's money than they are which hard working people know to be false.

I'm just going by what you said literally.
"you'd quit when they raise your taxes"

You didn't specify how much. What do you think is an acceptable amount before you quit and live on welfare while doing nothing all day?
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#607 » by lolwut » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:15 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:
lolwut wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
OK but you seem to be glossing over the fact the Falun Gong prisoners didn't do anything to deserve a death penalty, other than practice a religion.

As for HK dissidents, just being put away for life just for their political opinions is horrific enough.

I'm not pro-China in any way, but Falun Dafa is absolutely a cult. It's a religion in the same way Scientology is a religion. Have you actually read up on their beliefs and their leader? Does this sound like a legitimate religion?
In a much-circulated interview with Time magazine in 1999, Li talked about Falun Gong followers having the power to levitate, and spoke at length about an extraterrestrial invasion. “Since the beginning of this century, aliens have begun to invade the human mind and its ideology and culture,” Li said. When the interviewer asked him if he was a human being, Li’s response was intentionally enigmatic: “You can think of me as a human being.”


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/12/shen-yun-falun-gong-traditional-chinese-dance-troupe-china-doesnt-want-you-to-see

I personally know the girl on the top of this page. We were friends back in high school. I'm not going to go into details about her life, but it's a damn shame that she and her family got roped into this stuff.



You have to be careful comparing anything to Scientology. Scientology is absolutely criminal and has been convicted in an Ontario court of crime.

1. They coerce staff members to have abortions so they can be committed to their work.
2. They send private detectives after critics and harass them at their own homes.
3. They send false claims to employers of critics, "Did you know that your employee is a pedophile?"
4. They drain the bank accounts of their followers and run their debt up to the maximum.
5. They force followers to disconnect from family who do not believe in the cult teachings.

Having space alien back story is not what makes Scientology dangerous, and any reference to the same in Falun Dafa is not what makes it a cult. Cults force their followers to shun (disconnect from) those who leave the cult. Does that happen in Falun Dafa?

Good point. I don't know if Falun Dafa engages in criminal activities like Scientology. I only meant that it doesn't appear to be a legitimate "religion". Does that condone the Chinese government for torturing them and harvesting organs? No, absolutely not.

However, people need to be truthful and objective about the whole situation instead of purposely painting a narrative of China being the bad guys. I think everyone would agree that China is the bad guy here, but let's not pretend that the victims are the golden child of legitimate religion. Falun Dafa is an extremely shady organization. That doesn't mean all the members of Falun Gong are bad people. A lot of them are just regular folk that got duped and brainwashed.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#608 » by Hero_Panda » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:17 pm

MadDogSHWA wrote:
To be clear it was the transphobic incident that got him soft-fired.


Oh trust me, I follow Peterson alot and have listened to many of his podcasts and lectures.
Him being "transphobic" is a grave misinterpretation.

But this thread isn't about Peterson. If you want to learn more, search on youtube "Joe Rogan Jordan Peterson".
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#609 » by realball » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:26 pm

whoknows wrote:
realball wrote:
whoknows wrote:
And how are people who never worked and cannot relate to real life going to do that?
Healthcare, affordable housing, artificially raising minimum wage will cost extra money - where do you get them from?
Restricting and extra taxing employers will kill the golden goose - who is going to create jobs then?

Cause it is clear and proven time and time again that government is worst manager of our money while most corrupt & incapable to manage our money.


There is thing called human empathy that allows me to care for people whose socioeconomic group I do not share. I don't need to be a plumber to understand that regular people need healthcare.

And healthcare and affordable housing can be funded by taxes, like most other first world countries do.


If you had your company as a hard working plumber you'd quit when they raise your taxes - why work when welfare pays same but you get to do nothing? You'd also be frustrated that "academics" people stir s$it all day while doing nothing productive/tangible for society while forcing you to work even harder & increase pay to your part-time employee who works when he feels like.


If I lived in a fantasy world where welfare allowed me to have as good a life as a working person, then yes I'm sure I'd quit. But in the real world, I know that even if I get taxed, I will continue to work, because people on welfare very poor and difficult lives.

It might you surprise you to learn that taxes have been around for thousands of years, and welfare has been around for over a century, but shockingly, people have continued to work.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#610 » by jrask » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:26 pm

Hero_Panda wrote:
MadDogSHWA wrote:
To be clear it was the transphobic incident that got him soft-fired.


Oh trust me, I follow Peterson alot and have listened to many of his podcasts and lectures.
Him being "transphobic" is a grave misinterpretation.


I agree
He's not transphobic at all.
His main gripe was government "compelled speech"

I don't really have a problem with JP. He really isn't inflammatory at all. I think he's just a little bit weird and super articulate - and I can see how it might be off-putting to some people.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#611 » by realball » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:38 pm

whoknows wrote:
lolwut wrote:
whoknows wrote:
If you had your company as a hard working plumber you'd quit when they raise your taxes - why work when welfare pays same but you get to do nothing? You'd also be frustrated that "academics" people stir s$it all day while doing nothing productive/tangible for society while forcing you to work even harder & increase pay to your part-time employee who works when he feels like.

How do you see this as so black and white?

Let's say you're a successful plumber like in your example, and you take home $80K after taxes. Government raises taxes to pay for some social service. Now you make $79K a year.

Instead of continuing to work for that $79K, you'd rather quit and go on welfare?


In your example the increase is 1% but this is not what the left is asking for, they want total government control.
Problem is that left thinks government is better in managing people's money than they are which hard working people know to be false.


Do you live in North Korea or something? Where is the left out for "total control" that you're seeing? The left wants social services to be increased. Not "total control".

I live in Canada, the government provides us with free healthcare and education while taxing the middle class ~30% of their income. We've managed to somehow avoid "total government control" despite being a left-leaning country.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#612 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:42 pm

Hero_Panda wrote:
MadDogSHWA wrote:
To be clear it was the transphobic incident that got him soft-fired.


Oh trust me, I follow Peterson alot and have listened to many of his podcasts and lectures.
Him being "transphobic" is a grave misinterpretation.

But this thread isn't about Peterson. If you want to learn more, search on youtube "Joe Rogan Jordan Peterson".


I've put significant time into learning about him since the transphobic incident that started his 15 minutes of fame. I also watched the Rogaine interview. I especially like when women interview him :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm sure he put lots of energy into trying to get his job back (who wouldn't) . There is a reason we don't let the accused adjudicate.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#613 » by xAIRNESSx » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:43 pm

All the virtue signalers calling hypocrisy are likely the biggest hypocrites of all.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#614 » by ghuytro » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:56 pm

ropjhk wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
ropjhk wrote:
Challenge accepted. Here's a list of both good, bad and iffy outcomes I can think of if Canada adopted China's approach to nation unity.

All the vocal separatists would be in jail.
We'd all lose some rights to free speech.
The country would be more efficient economically as right now Quebec exception laws create inefficiency
Our politics would be less Quebec oriented and national issues would get more attention
Other Western democracies would be highly critical of Canada, leading to consumer boycotts
More Anglophones would be living in Quebec
There would be serious concerns (outside of Canada) for how French Canadians are given second class status (with indigenous people being relegated to 3rd class status)
Quebecois culture would not be preserved as Canada eventually morphs into some homogenous culture


Even then no one executed or had their organs harvested


I didn't list that because as far as I know the organ harvesting is limited to prisoners who receive capital punishment. I consider that a different category from separatists.


Coming up with legal justifications for this kind of egregious human rights abuse is abhorrent to me.

Any government in power, particularly autocratic, fascist governments like China, have the means to define the legislation that would make it "legal" to do pretty much anything - including defining what is eligible for capital punishment.

In Nazi Germany during the 1930's, they enacted the Nuremberg Laws that setup the legal framework for the marginalization and ultimately extermination of Jews.

Just because something is "legal" doesn't make it "right".
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#615 » by Hero_Panda » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:31 pm

jrask wrote:
I don't really have a problem with JP. He really isn't inflammatory at all. I think he's just a little bit weird and super articulate - and I can see how it might be off-putting to some people.


That I can understand :lol:
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#616 » by grimlock » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:35 pm

Why do all debates on forums end up spiraling into a Peterson discussion.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#617 » by 13th Man » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:51 pm

grimlock wrote:Why do all debates on forums end up spiraling into a Peterson discussion.


Because he's a rarity in today's society, I hear that he's in rehab of some sort hope he gets better and back on the circuit.

Ok, let's get back on track at least we still have a thread here on this.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#618 » by 720 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:00 pm

grimlock wrote:Why do all debates on forums end up spiraling into a Peterson discussion.

Because his fanboys love him. He has a very strong following.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#619 » by TorontoBaller » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:01 pm

lolwut wrote:
TorontoBaller wrote:
lolwut wrote:I would never in a million years move back to China, where I was born and lived the first 8 years of my life. However, it's probably for a totally different set of reasons from what you'd expect. The Chinese government isn't even on the list of reason for why I would never go back. I think a lot of people that you speak to there would tell you that there are far bigger issues that affect everyday life than the socialist economy.


tell us your reasons

In no particular order:
- K-12 education is a brutal rite of passage for kids. I'd never want to put my own child through that
- Terrible air pollution
- Real estate bubble
- Too many people with bad attitudes primarily driven by a "me-first" mentality

None of these are unique to socialist societies. It just happens that China has all of these problems in one place.


I appreciate your answer.
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Re: The NBA/China Controversy 

Post#620 » by Dennis 37 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:43 pm

Spoiler for the purpose of not derailing.

Spoiler:
jrask wrote:
Hero_Panda wrote:
MadDogSHWA wrote:
To be clear it was the transphobic incident that got him soft-fired.


Oh trust me, I follow Peterson alot and have listened to many of his podcasts and lectures.
Him being "transphobic" is a grave misinterpretation.


I agree
He's not transphobic at all.
His main gripe was government "compelled speech"

I don't really have a problem with JP. He really isn't inflammatory at all. I think he's just a little bit weird and super articulate - and I can see how it might be off-putting to some people.


I don't get the concept of compelled speech. If you think about it, there is no instance in which one has to use another's preferred pronoun. It is impolite to use a pronoun to refer to someone who is in your presence. Have you ever used "she" when the female, of whom you were speaking, was present. I bet you got an earful. If a person is present, you would always use their name. If the person was not present, and you did not remember, or chose not to use, the person's preferred pronoun, one would/could simply use that person's name.

The biggest beef with the whole thing I have, is with the use of they. All my life 'they' has been a plural pronoun. Why do people need to choose a word, already in use as a plural pronoun, and use it as a singular? I object to this, not because I give a crap about people choosing pronouns, but that I care about the clarity of the language.

Consider this:

Samantha’s mother was a teenager when they gave birth. They lived in public housing.

The first word they could imply that both Samantha, and their mother, gave birth. Or it could be referring to someone else, or referring to some other group of women. The second word they could mean both Samantha and their mom lived in public housing, or just their mom lived in public housing. Which is it? For all we know Samantha could be living with their grandmother, while they lived by themselves in public housing. When we say 'their grandmother' is the person both the grandmother of the teenager and their daughter? Just the daughter? Just the mother? What?

Try to have this discussion with someone who calls 'themself' 'they'. Odds are you will be called a bigot. Or that you are a violent person that 'they' feel threatened to be around.

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