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Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:56 am
by Metallikid
Vaclac wrote:
Red_Claw wrote:Isn't there another way to send a message other than producing pure chaos? These sort of protest really set things back instead of moving them forward. Bringing politics (international no less) into a game was Morey's only mistake and this protest only repeats that mistake.


He didn't bring politics into a game. It would be a more fair criticism to say politics should have no place in the game if he made a statement during a game or at some event that was actually affiliated with the NBA. He used his personal twitter. What other way should he have sent this message? I think this fact really highlights that the "chaos" was not caused by Morey's decision, but by China's decision to react apoplectically to it. To believe that Morey bears responsibility for the chaos requires a belief that he, merely by being employed by the NBA, had a duty to self-censor completely, even when speaking just for himself in a way that has nothing really to do with the NBA. It ought to be clear that that standard is not one we would like to apply across the country.


I'm pretty sure every executive in every realm of business ever has had a clause in their contract stipulating that your public conduct IS reflective of your association with said business, and that you can be fired for bringing disrepute or negative attention to said business. It's standard practice. Then there's also NDAs which are rampant. There's a reason most CEOs and CFOs don't tweet or publicly express politically, religiously, or culturally sensitive material.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:57 am
by JYD
shefcurry wrote:
Politicize sport and you are removing the last safe haven for a fractured society to unite.


Holding more than a million prisoners in internment camps solely because of their cultural identity, for starters, isn't anything to do with politics. Same gov't responsible for that is the same one trying to shut HK down, same one NBA profits from.

There were Japanese internment camps in the US in WW2. If that happened today in Canada, and Scotiabank was called 'Japanese Internment Guard's Pension Fund Arena' instead, would anyone object to protests, or call it 'political'?

There's no difference, besides time and borders. You would be fans of a company that profits off the back of a government doing horrible things to human beings.

Also, your statement about society needing a safe haven from fracture is hilarious. Is society in Canada split now on free speech/democracy and support of it? Sounds like something we'd be unified on because it's kind of a major part of Canada's identity.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/inside-chinese-camps-thought-detain-million-muslim-uighurs-n1062321


“They're really about crushing, to some degree, the Muslim culture, the Uighur culture – getting people to feel much more bonded to the Communist Party than to their own religious beliefs,” said Wilder, who is also the managing director of the Initiative for U.S.-China Dialogue on Global Issues at Georgetown University in Washington. “This is trying to fundamentally change the hearts and minds of these people. It's about enforcing allegiance.”

“This is a war against separatism,” he added. “And they’re going to use whatever techniques they need to make sure they suppress this.”

Omar Kanat, director of the Uyghur Human Rights Project, a rights advocacy organization based in Washington, called the centers “concentration camps” which aim is to wipe out Uighur culture.

“They are forcing the detainees to renounce their religion, renounce their culture, renounce their identity, force them to speak Mandarin,” said Kanat, who also serves as the chairman of the World Uyghur Congress’ Executive Committee and advocates for an independent Uighur state. “They are forcing them to say there is no God, there is only the Communist Party.”

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:12 am
by shefcurry
JYD wrote:
shefcurry wrote:
Politicize sport and you are removing the last safe haven for a fractured society to unite.


Holding more than a million prisoners in internment camps solely because of their cultural identity, for starters, isn't anything to do with politics. Same gov't responsible for that is the same one trying to shut HK down, same one NBA profits from.

There were Japanese internment camps in the US in WW2. If that happened today in Canada, and Scotiabank was called 'Japanese Internment Guard's Pension Fund Arena' instead, would anyone object to protests, or call it 'political'?

There's no difference, besides time and borders. You would be fans of a company that profits off the back of a government doing horrible things to human beings.

Also, your statement about society needing a safe haven from fracture is hilarious. Is society in Canada split now on free speech/democracy and support of it? Sounds like something we'd be unified on because it's kind of a major part of Canada's identity.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/inside-chinese-camps-thought-detain-million-muslim-uighurs-n1062321


“They're really about crushing, to some degree, the Muslim culture, the Uighur culture – getting people to feel much more bonded to the Communist Party than to their own religious beliefs,” said Wilder, who is also the managing director of the Initiative for U.S.-China Dialogue on Global Issues at Georgetown University in Washington. “This is trying to fundamentally change the hearts and minds of these people. It's about enforcing allegiance.”

“This is a war against separatism,” he added. “And they’re going to use whatever techniques they need to make sure they suppress this.”

Omar Kanat, director of the Uyghur Human Rights Project, a rights advocacy organization based in Washington, called the centers “concentration camps” which aim is to wipe out Uighur culture.

“They are forcing the detainees to renounce their religion, renounce their culture, renounce their identity, force them to speak Mandarin,” said Kanat, who also serves as the chairman of the World Uyghur Congress’ Executive Committee and advocates for an independent Uighur state. “They are forcing them to say there is no God, there is only the Communist Party.”


You missed the larger point. Sport is a euphemism and substitute for war - a platform to unite with different people around you against a common enemy, but where the stakes are zero and it's all in good fun. It forges kinship among people that wouldn't normally be friends. At a Knicks game, I've seen Italian Guidos and African Americans, which normally are two groups that don't get along terribly well, high-fiving each other on made baskets and joking with each other in their shared disgust at Carmelo Anthony's terrible shot selection. And it's hard to hate someone when you've just spent a few great hours with them.

And if you're a baller, on the court, race, class, money, etc.. don't mean ****. You are judged by one thing and one thing only: can you play?

Take that away by politicizing it, and those groups never get together. Sport just becomes another one of a thousand platforms to spread division and hate.

It doesn't matter what your righteous cause is. Find another platform to voice your opinion. Leave sport to unite us.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:39 am
by JYD
shefcurry wrote:Take that away by politicizing it, and those groups never get together. Sport just becomes another one of a thousand platforms to spread division and hate.

It doesn't matter what your righteous cause is. Find another platform to voice your opinion. Leave sport to unite us.


Why are you pretending people in an NBA arena would be divided by the concept of support for free speech and democracy? Bunch of nonsense.

The point you're missing is that the NBA isn't separate from the issue at hand. The NBA is directly involved. So why wouldn't patrons of the NBA get involved as well, if it bothers them?

You're right about one thing though, the cause is righteous.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:41 am
by shefcurry
Everyone thinks their cause is righteous. Otherwise they wouldn’t support it.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:09 am
by ItsDanger
Image

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:48 am
by Darknemo2000
raptorstime wrote:Bad look for the raptors, keep politics out


Too late for that mate. Probably should have had this concerns much earlier when players were making comments regarding US government and stuff. Like it or not sport is way too deep with politics right now. And if you at this moment spread message that it shouldnt you already make a political stance. Wait till things calm down a little.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:35 am
by The Warrior
Darknemo2000 wrote:
raptorstime wrote:Bad look for the raptors, keep politics out


Too late for that mate. Probably should have had this concerns much earlier when players were making comments regarding US government and stuff. Like it or not sport is way too deep with politics right now. And if you at this moment spread message that it shouldnt you already make a political stance. Wait till things calm down a little.
Wait what's the bad look on the Raptors?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:25 pm
by Bankai
The Warrior wrote:
Darknemo2000 wrote:
raptorstime wrote:Bad look for the raptors, keep politics out


Too late for that mate. Probably should have had this concerns much earlier when players were making comments regarding US government and stuff. Like it or not sport is way too deep with politics right now. And if you at this moment spread message that it shouldnt you already make a political stance. Wait till things calm down a little.
Wait what's the bad look on the Raptors?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

A Pro HK group is planning to give away a bunch of pro HK shirts at the Raptors home opener. Their intention is to have a chunk of the crowd wear them during the game. If MLSE ends up letting the Group do this, it means they publicly politicized the Raptors, and now they will be involved in this mess.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:06 pm
by MadDogSHWA
Bankai wrote:If MLSE ends up letting the Group do this, it means they publicly politicized the Raptors, and now they will be involved in this mess.


How can they stop this? I don't think people grasp the logistics.

Bonus question: How can MLSE stop this without incurring negative PR?

If they actually stop it then that means they are taking a PRO-China stance. That's not a win and they know it. Then you have the fallout. They kick out thousands of fans. How many of them are filing a lawsuit? How many fans see people being kicked out for this nonsense and just walk out in a show of support.

I can say as a fan that I would never attend a Raptors game again if they start checking people's t-shirts. Or if they kick out 7 thousand fans.

Also: there is zero logic to support the middle clause in this quote. The fans have politicized something. MLSE did nothing but let them in the arena. To put that on MLSE fails any form of logical analysis.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:06 pm
by dalton749
Bankai wrote:
The Warrior wrote:
Darknemo2000 wrote:
Too late for that mate. Probably should have had this concerns much earlier when players were making comments regarding US government and stuff. Like it or not sport is way too deep with politics right now. And if you at this moment spread message that it shouldnt you already make a political stance. Wait till things calm down a little.
Wait what's the bad look on the Raptors?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

A Pro HK group is planning to give away a bunch of pro HK shirts at the Raptors home opener. Their intention is to have a chunk of the crowd wear them during the game. If MLSE ends up letting the Group do this, it means they publicly politicized the Raptors, and now they will be involved in this mess.


This. Then the players and organization are unwillingly forced to answer more questions about something that there is no perfect answer to, causing more unnecessary drama that we don’t need to be a part of.

People expressing their own freedom of expression on a platform that isn’t their own takes away other people’s freedom of expression away because you’re forcing them into addressing it, or choosing a side on something that they may not want to.

This is sports and there is no room for it. If we start going down this path it only causes more hate and division. Imagine a future where choosing your favourite teams and players is by what political stance the take, or any other values they hold instead of supporting the team in your community and uniting together.

Let us have our safe place and celebrate the championship, and let people have their safe place to protest if they wish, but don’t force this issue on to the completely wrong platform.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:10 pm
by MadDogSHWA
I can't imagine how callous a person would need to be to have any issue with a protest to help people who are suffering.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:22 pm
by angrylawyeryyz
Haha funny like when these shirts were handed up to people before an NFL game. I'd wear one.

https://chumley.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/30/clownshirt.jpg

People need to decide whether we continue to rely on cheap labour in China for all our cheap crap or we remove our dependency on cheap crap made by cheap labour in China. I personally find China to be propaganda spewing hypocrites. Ironically, the most capitalist system for the very wealthy elite who benefit off the blood and sweat of the poor. So ironic that communism was to throw the chains off and over throw the bourgeoisie and yet the political elite of China are richer than crap.

But, unless you want to pay more for your stuff, then China will be allowed to continue their propaganda and political crap.

And all he mainlanders in Canada will help spread this propaganda which ironically would land them in prison in China.

I stand with Hong Kong. China is dirt.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:23 pm
by The Warrior
Bankai wrote:
The Warrior wrote:
Darknemo2000 wrote:
Too late for that mate. Probably should have had this concerns much earlier when players were making comments regarding US government and stuff. Like it or not sport is way too deep with politics right now. And if you at this moment spread message that it shouldnt you already make a political stance. Wait till things calm down a little.
Wait what's the bad look on the Raptors?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

A Pro HK group is planning to give away a bunch of pro HK shirts at the Raptors home opener. Their intention is to have a chunk of the crowd wear them during the game. If MLSE ends up letting the Group do this, it means they publicly politicized the Raptors, and now they will be involved in this mess.


Oh I gotcha. Thanks yeah that could definitely turn into a mess.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:35 pm
by dalton749
MadDogSHWA wrote:
Bankai wrote:If MLSE ends up letting the Group do this, it means they publicly politicized the Raptors, and now they will be involved in this mess.


How can they stop this? I don't think people grasp the logistics.

Bonus question: How can MLSE stop this without incurring negative PR?

If they actually stop it then that means they are taking a PRO-China stance. That's not a win and they know it. Then you have the fallout. They kick out thousands of fans. How many of them are filing a lawsuit? How many fans see people being kicked out for this nonsense and just walk out in a show of support.

I can say as a fan that I would never attend a Raptors game again if they start checking people's t-shirts. Or if they kick out 7 thousand fans.

Also: there is zero logic to support the middle clause in this quote. The fans have politicized something. MLSE did nothing but let them in the arena. To put that on MLSE fails any form of logical analysis.


Why is this so black and white to you? Choosing not to let this happen doesn’t mean the are pro-China, it means that they are the Toronto Raptors and their opponent is the New Orleans Pelicans, not the communist Chinese government.

There is no winning for the team in this situation which they are being forced into and that is the problem.

What happens in the building is a reflection of the team, organization and city, and one obnoxious, drunk sports fan starting a “**** China” chant is all it takes to start major issues.

Sports bring people together and this will only divide, so please people, voice your opinions literally anywhere else and I’m in full in support.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:09 pm
by SHFT
people saying "keep politics out of basketball", please show me your post showing the same sentiment when LBJ or Kerr went at at the US administration for whatever.

if you cant do that, you clearly have some ulterior motive with your distaste for whats about to happen on opening night.

If you can, at least youre consistent in your belief which is the only way a real conversation can happen.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:36 pm
by MadDogSHWA
dalton749 wrote:
MadDogSHWA wrote:
Bankai wrote:If MLSE ends up letting the Group do this, it means they publicly politicized the Raptors, and now they will be involved in this mess.


How can they stop this? I don't think people grasp the logistics.

Bonus question: How can MLSE stop this without incurring negative PR?

If they actually stop it then that means they are taking a PRO-China stance. That's not a win and they know it. Then you have the fallout. They kick out thousands of fans. How many of them are filing a lawsuit? How many fans see people being kicked out for this nonsense and just walk out in a show of support.

I can say as a fan that I would never attend a Raptors game again if they start checking people's t-shirts. Or if they kick out 7 thousand fans.

Also: there is zero logic to support the middle clause in this quote. The fans have politicized something. MLSE did nothing but let them in the arena. To put that on MLSE fails any form of logical analysis.


Why is this so black and white to you? Choosing not to let this happen doesn’t mean the are pro-China, it means that they are the Toronto Raptors and their opponent is the New Orleans Pelicans, not the communist Chinese government.

There is no winning for the team in this situation which they are being forced into and that is the problem.

What happens in the building is a reflection of the team, organization and city, and one obnoxious, drunk sports fan starting a “**** China” chant is all it takes to start major issues.

Sports bring people together and this will only divide, so please people, voice your opinions literally anywhere else and I’m in full in support.


All the team has to do is allow it. The story in the paper the next day: fans at a sporting event wore t-shirts and started a chant.

STOP THE PRESSES WE GOT A HOT ONE :lol: :lol: :lol:

By the way, how did you feel about Kap kneeling? How did you feel about the knee in Freddy Greys back?

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:42 pm
by Hero_Panda
MadDogSHWA wrote:
All the team has to do is allow it. The story in the paper the next day: fans at a sporting event wore t-shirts and started a chant.

STOP THE PRESSES WE GOT A HOT ONE :lol: :lol: :lol:



Glad you're getting big laughs out of this.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:44 pm
by MadDogSHWA
Hero_Panda wrote:
MadDogSHWA wrote:
All the team has to do is allow it. The story in the paper the next day: fans at a sporting event wore t-shirts and started a chant.

STOP THE PRESSES WE GOT A HOT ONE :lol: :lol: :lol:



Glad you're getting big laughs out of this.


The general ignorance and callousness of privileged people are some of my faves.

Re: The NBA/China Controversy

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:45 pm
by Hero_Panda
SHFT wrote:people saying "keep politics out of basketball", please show me your post showing the same sentiment when LBJ or Kerr went at at the US administration for whatever.

if you cant do that, you clearly have some ulterior motive with your distaste for whats about to happen on opening night.

If you can, at least your consistent in your belief which is the only way a real conversation can happen.


I don't go to look at LBJ or Kerr for their political views or current affairs.
I am, however, grateful that they bring awareness to such situations leaving me free to do my own research, look up various perspectives on the situation and form my opinion after being educated on the subject at hand. Morey, for example, open a world to me of what's been going on in China and HK after being shockingly oblivious to it for months. I have done my research and am anti-CCP, hoping the world does not kowtow to them.

Other than that, 99% of the time I watch/follow LBJ and Kerr for their basketball prowess.