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Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry

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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#141 » by XxIronChainzxX » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:38 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
TheAlchemist wrote:
LastNameEver wrote:What is with you guys and Wiggins...

the only reason he still plays is because they have to justify his contract. He's at best Rudy Gay circa 2012


These guys have some serious Wiggins love.

The guys a perennial loser and a weak af mentality type. Why would we take his contract on and never be able to get Giannis or any other free agent?

Like We're not THAT desperate. Stop guys pls.


The only Wiggins trade that makes sense would be one that attaches Jarrett Culver and some other compensation.

Culver gives off Jimmy Butler vibes with his two way play. I think he has the potential to make a higher impact than RJ Barrett, even though Barrett is a much more talented offensive scorer.

Fred/Culver/Wiggins/Siakam/Gasol

That’s an ECF contender with future upside.


I can't tell if you're joking, but that's a team that's not even making the playoffs in the East. You could swap out Giannis for Siakam and we'd be lucky to make the playoffs.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#142 » by Rapsfan07 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:43 pm

StopitLeo wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:I'm thinking we should focus more on Ibaka and Gasol. There's a much bigger market for them than Lowry.


I think Serge would look good with Portland while both guys could work in Dallas.


I agree. I've proposed a trade in this thread that sends Ibaka and Anunoby to Portland.... in exchange for Whiteside and Simons. I think it's fair. We're giving up Ibaka, absorbing an extra year of Whiteside AND giving up OG for Simons.

But if the feedback is anything to rely on, Portland thinks Simons is the second coming of Chris Paul so I don't know. But that's a helluva offer IMO and I'd argue Ibaka and Anunoby can/will make a bigger impact on a regular basis than Simons, and that's to say nothing of the cap relief they get from dumping Whiteside.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#143 » by Rapsfan07 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:47 pm

Syd-TK3 wrote:Trading lowry for a bunch of contract matching average players and no picks/prospects is definitely not what you want to do


Well that's exactly it. I'm not against moving Lowry but I'm not making a lateral or moving him just for hell of it.

And ABSOLUTELY NOT for the likes of Andrew Wiggins.... unless Minnesota is sending 3 unprotected firsts.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#144 » by Boogie! » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:11 pm

So dumb to me that the discussion is about dealing Lowry. He's retiring a raptor with multiple championships. End of story.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#145 » by Zeno » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:18 pm

I have no real interest in trading Lowry but even if I did, I think some folks are missing the point with trading for a guy making big money that extends beyond 2021. I think Masai would ideally want young players who are restricted free agents in the summer of 2021. Players who were taken later in the draft would be more ideal because their capholds will be less. So Dennis Smith, Zach Collins, Luke Kennard, Bam Adebayo, Justin Jackson, Jarrett Allen, Harry Giles, D.J Wilson, T.J Leaf, Terrance Ferguson, Josh Hart or Kyle Kuzma are players for example I could imagine Masai being interested in based on being 2021 draftees from the 10th pick onward in the 1st round. Some of those guys are probably not available and some people might have no interest in. Obviously not necessarily as part of a Lowry trade, I'm just saying...
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#146 » by jimmy keys » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:48 am

Zeno wrote:I have no real interest in trading Lowry but even if I did, I think some folks are missing the point with trading for a guy making big money that extends beyond 2021. I think Masai would ideally want young players who are restricted free agents in the summer of 2021. Players who were taken later in the draft would be more ideal because their capholds will be less. So Dennis Smith, Zach Collins, Luke Kennard, Bam Adebayo, Justin Jackson, Jarrett Allen, Harry Giles, D.J Wilson, T.J Leaf, Terrance Ferguson, Josh Hart or Kyle Kuzma are players for example I could imagine Masai being interested in based on being 2021 draftees from the 10th pick onward in the 1st round. Some of those guys are probably not available and some people might have no interest in. Obviously not necessarily as part of a Lowry trade, I'm just saying...


Sure guys drafted in 2017 make sense, but wouldn't guys drafted in 2018 still on their rookie deals make even more sense if cap space is your objective? I don't think the Raptors will go into 2021 with space for two max guys. They'll trade for guys who fit the Siakam time line. They can target someone like Buddy Hield and still have room for a max guy in '21.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#147 » by Kreamy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:18 am

The Wiggins trade proposals are cringe-worthy. Yuck.

Lowry to the Heat if it brings back Herro, Adebayo or both. Miami has enough salary fodder in Dragic, Johnson, Waiters etc. to make a deal work.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#148 » by Zeno » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:19 am

jimmy keys wrote:
Zeno wrote:I have no real interest in trading Lowry but even if I did, I think some folks are missing the point with trading for a guy making big money that extends beyond 2021. I think Masai would ideally want young players who are restricted free agents in the summer of 2021. Players who were taken later in the draft would be more ideal because their capholds will be less. So Dennis Smith, Zach Collins, Luke Kennard, Bam Adebayo, Justin Jackson, Jarrett Allen, Harry Giles, D.J Wilson, T.J Leaf, Terrance Ferguson, Josh Hart or Kyle Kuzma are players for example I could imagine Masai being interested in based on being 2021 draftees from the 10th pick onward in the 1st round. Some of those guys are probably not available and some people might have no interest in. Obviously not necessarily as part of a Lowry trade, I'm just saying...


Sure guys drafted in 2017 make sense, but wouldn't guys drafted in 2018 still on their rookie deals make even more sense if cap space is your objective? I don't think the Raptors will go into 2021 with space for two max guys. They'll trade for guys who fit the Siakam time line. They can target someone like Buddy Hield and still have room for a max guy in '21.

Sure 2018 guys would be even better but that would make them harder to trade for too value-wise unless they have looked pretty useless so far. As far a Hield goes if you pay him 20 million per and max Siakam next summer, you might as well trade Fred now too because he’ll want minimum 12-15 per too and there definitely won’t be max room by the time 2021 rolls around.
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#149 » by Rapsfan07 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:52 pm

Kreamy wrote:The Wiggins trade proposals are cringe-worthy. Yuck.

Lowry to the Heat if it brings back Herro, Adebayo or both. Miami has enough salary fodder in Dragic, Johnson, Waiters etc. to make a deal work.


None of this is worth Lowry except Adebayo and I don't see Riley signing off on moving him for two years of an aging Lowry.

I really can't think of a team that can AND will offer us a package that makes it worth it for us. Plus he's more than earned his keep here in Toronto. We should keep him and just move Gasol and Ibaka for whatever their worth. There's a ton of teams that could use those guys and offer us some interesting things for them.

How desperate are we for Bradley Beal? Would anyone take on Wall if he came with Beal?

Maybe something like Wall, Beal for Lowry, Ibaka and a smaller asset? It might not look like enough on the surface but Wall is owed a LOT of money and I can't see anyone else taking on that deal. We don't have the assets to outbid anyone for a talent like Beal so maybe we use our capspace to do it? This move would take us out of the running for Giannis, unless of course Wall returns to some semblance of his former self and if that does happen, I'd imagine we probably keep him?

I don't know... just a thought.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#150 » by jimmy keys » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:55 pm

Zeno wrote:
jimmy keys wrote:
Zeno wrote:I have no real interest in trading Lowry but even if I did, I think some folks are missing the point with trading for a guy making big money that extends beyond 2021. I think Masai would ideally want young players who are restricted free agents in the summer of 2021. Players who were taken later in the draft would be more ideal because their capholds will be less. So Dennis Smith, Zach Collins, Luke Kennard, Bam Adebayo, Justin Jackson, Jarrett Allen, Harry Giles, D.J Wilson, T.J Leaf, Terrance Ferguson, Josh Hart or Kyle Kuzma are players for example I could imagine Masai being interested in based on being 2021 draftees from the 10th pick onward in the 1st round. Some of those guys are probably not available and some people might have no interest in. Obviously not necessarily as part of a Lowry trade, I'm just saying...


Sure guys drafted in 2017 make sense, but wouldn't guys drafted in 2018 still on their rookie deals make even more sense if cap space is your objective? I don't think the Raptors will go into 2021 with space for two max guys. They'll trade for guys who fit the Siakam time line. They can target someone like Buddy Hield and still have room for a max guy in '21.

Sure 2018 guys would be even better but that would make them harder to trade for too value-wise unless they have looked pretty useless so far. As far a Hield goes if you pay him 20 million per and max Siakam next summer, you might as well trade Fred now too because he’ll want minimum 12-15 per too and there definitely won’t be max room by the time 2021 rolls around.


They can get there with Siakam & Hield, but they'd have to move two of Norm, FVV or OG at some point for sure. It's possible though, maybe they even move all 3 for Hield & Ariza who knows. They can get there though.

Going into 2021...
1. (max) - Siakam
2. (near max) - Buddy
3. (max cap space) -
4. FVV OR Norm OR OG's cap hold
5. Davis
6. Thomas
7. Hernandez
8. 2020 FRP
9. 2021 FRP


It'll be interesting to see what they do with FVV, OG and Norm, if any or all 3 will still be on the team by then. If they trade Lowry for someone like Herro then they could still fit Siakam, Hield, Herro, Davis, Hernandez, Thomas, Boucher, 2 FRP's and still have max cap space in 2021.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#151 » by johanliebert » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:57 pm

man you all said he was resigned to get dealt. Hes gone despite how they start the season i doubt lowry wants to be here after kawhi left.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#152 » by ciueli » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:11 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Gary Harris would solve our SF problem. Given that Porter JR looks like the future for them.


It really wouldn't solve our SF problem. Harris is by far a better fit at the SG position. Too undersized for the SF position.


Gary Harris is 6’2 he’s not solving our SF problem lol

The interesting Harris is Tobias Harris.

A Kyle Lowry Tobias Harris swap could potentially work for both teams.

But that contract gives me serious pause


This was about the only trade I could think of that made sense, Kyle for Tobias Harris. Kyle is a Philly guy so he can't complain about being traded to a team trying to win a championship. A starting lineup of Embiid, Horford, Simmons, Richardson, and Lowry is better than what they have now, IMO.

Does it make sense for the Raptors? Hard to say, it gives us a really nice set of forwards to build around, but Harris has a lot of long term money coming to him that kills off the (admittedly unlikely) possibility of getting Giannis + Bradley Beal in 2021. If we come out of 2021 with no big name added to the team, where do we go from there? Tank and be a terrible team for the next decade while we rebuild?
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#153 » by TheAlchemist » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:39 pm

ciueli wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
It really wouldn't solve our SF problem. Harris is by far a better fit at the SG position. Too undersized for the SF position.


Gary Harris is 6’2 he’s not solving our SF problem lol

The interesting Harris is Tobias Harris.

A Kyle Lowry Tobias Harris swap could potentially work for both teams.

But that contract gives me serious pause


This was about the only trade I could think of that made sense, Kyle for Tobias Harris. Kyle is a Philly guy so he can't complain about being traded to a team trying to win a championship. A starting lineup of Embiid, Horford, Simmons, Richardson, and Lowry is better than what they have now, IMO.

Does it make sense for the Raptors? Hard to say, it gives us a really nice set of forwards to build around, but Harris has a lot of long term money coming to him that kills off the (admittedly unlikely) possibility of getting Giannis + Bradley Beal in 2021. If we come out of 2021 with no big name added to the team, where do we go from there? Tank and be a terrible team for the next decade while we rebuild?


This was the trade that I saw that made the most sense to me out of a lot of eastern conference ones.

Unless Masai has great insight into the Giannis thing, I dont know how possible it is truthfully.

Although I think we have one max spot left , if we do make this trade.

FVV
Stormin Norm
Tobias Harris
Pascal
Gasol / Ibaka

I feel like we'd need another star point guard or guard on that team. Adding someone like Beal would be crazy.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#154 » by bballsparkin » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:42 pm

The way Herro came out shooting/playing, Heat fans are going to want to keep him. I'm not opposed to trading Lowry if the price is right. I just doubt many teams can/will pony up.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#155 » by bballsparkin » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:46 pm

johanliebert wrote:man you all said he was resigned to get dealt. Hes gone despite how they start the season i doubt lowry wants to be here after kawhi left.


A definite possibility. No pressure either way. I look forward to watching the process unfold.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#156 » by Rapsfan07 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:48 pm

ciueli wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
It really wouldn't solve our SF problem. Harris is by far a better fit at the SG position. Too undersized for the SF position.


Gary Harris is 6’2 he’s not solving our SF problem lol

The interesting Harris is Tobias Harris.

A Kyle Lowry Tobias Harris swap could potentially work for both teams.

But that contract gives me serious pause


This was about the only trade I could think of that made sense, Kyle for Tobias Harris. Kyle is a Philly guy so he can't complain about being traded to a team trying to win a championship. A starting lineup of Embiid, Horford, Simmons, Richardson, and Lowry is better than what they have now, IMO.

Does it make sense for the Raptors? Hard to say, it gives us a really nice set of forwards to build around, but Harris has a lot of long term money coming to him that kills off the (admittedly unlikely) possibility of getting Giannis + Bradley Beal in 2021. If we come out of 2021 with no big name added to the team, where do we go from there? Tank and be a terrible team for the next decade while we rebuild?


See here's the thing with this picture..

We could very well have all the capspace in the world and not end up with Giannis OR Beal! This is a very realistic outcome that all Toronto fans should prepare themselves for.

However, it doesn't mean we don't at least try. But we have to be careful how we go about it.

Ideally, I would stay away from expensive deals that go beyond 2021 UNLESS that deal is going to be coming with a worthwhile asset (i.e a very solid young player and/or high FRPs). Other than that, our first priority is squeezing as much value out of Gasol and Ibaka as possible. This is good for them too. This team isn't going to win anything this year so moving them to a situation where they can compete for a title might be in the best interest of all involved parties. So, teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Trailblazers and Nets are all potential suitors who can offer assets worth our while to trade.

If we can move them, get young assets in return and not have to take on contacts that exceed 2 years, we can grow those young guys during the two years we wait for Beal and Giannis to become FA's. Then in 2021 we make our pitch. If it works, great. If it doesn't, we still have our young guys that are probably on rookie deals or early into their first big contracts. Productive, easy to move. Worse case scenario - we have a young team to pitch to potential FA's that are signed long term or on controllable deals to use to build around them.

The only thing is these guys are expiring deals and the whole NBA knows. The longer we wait to make a deal is the less we'll get back in a trade. Teams might want to see what they have first before making and deals but around that 20 game point in the season, you want to start quietly investigating what you can get for these guys.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#157 » by udfa » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:51 am

Boogie! wrote:So dumb to me that the discussion is about dealing Lowry. He's retiring a raptor with multiple championships. End of story.


As a non-Raptor fan, I was really surprised to read there's speculation that Lowry could be traded. I just assumed he'd retire a Raptor. From a standpoint of the total success brought to the franchise, isn't Lowry by far the greatest Raptor of All-Time? He's practically still in his prime and could bring so much more success here in this coming Act III of his career. Seems really short-sighted to me not to ensure he never plays for another team.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#158 » by LastNameEver » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:49 am

johanliebert wrote:man you all said he was resigned to get dealt. Hes gone despite how they start the season i doubt lowry wants to be here after kawhi left.

The team doesn't matter, he just wants an opportunity to play for a title. And realistically he cannot do that here without major additions.

So Masai will try to get him somewhere suitable.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#159 » by SHFT » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:17 am

udfa wrote:
Boogie! wrote:So dumb to me that the discussion is about dealing Lowry. He's retiring a raptor with multiple championships. End of story.


As a non-Raptor fan, I was really surprised to read there's speculation that Lowry could be traded. I just assumed he'd retire a Raptor. From a standpoint of the total success brought to the franchise, isn't Lowry by far the greatest Raptor of All-Time? He's practically still in his prime and could bring so much more success here in this coming Act III of his career. Seems really short-sighted to me not to ensure he never plays for another team.


All hypotheticals. As a non Raptor fan it's fair you dont understand that literally every year the US media will pick our team apart and talk about trades (especially now that we have won and Kawhi left).

I personally dont think he goes anyways unless Masai absolutely fleeces some team. I wont say Kyle is never gone because Masai could very well fleece someone but I would imagine most of the execs in the league are wise to this now.
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Re: Woj & Lowe: Potential bidding war for Kyle Lowry 

Post#160 » by daswunderboy » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:39 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
daswunderboy wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Chris Paul can be had for a couple firsts. I don't set these prices, that's just the market.


Multiple crappy first round picks is not the same as Jamal Murray, a real player today with more tangible value than a protected pick 4 years from now in the mid-20's.

I think you're over valuing him.

Like it's Jokic, he's the guy they wont move. Then it's probably Porter Jr at this point, you wont get him. after that...it's fair game. Murray's good, but he's a piece at this point like Harris.



Lol at Porter Jr and his broken back being more unmovable than Jamal Murray...this board is always good for a laugh.

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