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Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3161 » by Indeed » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:02 pm

Dalek wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Dalek wrote:The more I watch of Killian Tillie, the more I think he is worth the pick at 29. His injury history is really the only thing holding him back from being a lottery pick. If Toronto wants a guy who can fill in for Gasol with good passing, shooting and just overall IQ, Tillie is pretty close to the Gasol.

I think he is starter level and is similar in size to Sabonis. Given his injury history, I don't think Tillie will be as physical as Sabonis is, but his shooting is proven. To have a stretch four who can shoot off movement is highly valuable. His passing is also special. If he is healthy he could be another Jokic.

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Not going to be Jokic or Gasol level but maybe Ryan Anderson.


I can see the Ryan Anderson comp, but I think that's his floor. Maybe he is not at the Jokic level, but I think he should be more than a spot-up shooter. Tillie himself thinks plays like Danillo Gallinari which would be a great outcome at 29.

One other draft guy also made the Gallo comp and you can see a lot of similarities:


I thought his floor is Linas Kleiza instead. He is taller than Kleiza, but his wingspan are identical of Kleiza / Anderson at 6'10 instead of Gallinari at 7'1.

I am not sure you really expect a late first to mid second pick to be a top 10 type player. Otherwise, he would be picked way ahead, particularly many of the picks above 29 are projected to be a bench / role player.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3162 » by Psubs » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:03 pm

Indeed wrote:I thought his floor is Linas Kleiza instead. He is taller than Kleiza, but his wingspan are identical of Kleiza / Anderson at 6'10 instead of Gallinari at 7'1.

I am not sure you really expect a late first to mid second pick to be a top 10 type player. Otherwise, he would be picked way ahead, particularly many of the picks above 29 are projected to be a bench / role player.


I like the bigger version of Kleiza better! It doesn't feel like a sexy pick. Oh geez, as a Raptors he never played more than 50 games in any of his 3 seasons. :(
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3163 » by GM89 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:23 pm

Psubs wrote:
Indeed wrote:I thought his floor is Linas Kleiza instead. He is taller than Kleiza, but his wingspan are identical of Kleiza / Anderson at 6'10 instead of Gallinari at 7'1.

I am not sure you really expect a late first to mid second pick to be a top 10 type player. Otherwise, he would be picked way ahead, particularly many of the picks above 29 are projected to be a bench / role player.


I like the bigger version of Kleiza better! It doesn't feel like a sexy pick. Oh geez, as a Raptors he never played more than 50 games in any of his 3 seasons. :(


Drafting a smart big who can shoot 3s who was projected to be in the lottery late in the first round sounds pretty sexy! :D
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3164 » by Dalek » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:33 pm

Psubs wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Not going to be Jokic or Gasol level but maybe Ryan Anderson.


I can see the Ryan Anderson comp, but I think that's his floor. Maybe he is not at the Jokic level, but I think he should be more than a spot-up shooter. Tillie himself thinks plays like Danillo Gallinari which would be a great outcome at 29.

One other draft guy also made the Gallo comp and you can see a lot of similarities:



Yes, but averaging 5 rebounds in college isn't going to help the Raptors on the boards. I guess if he shoots the 3 at 40% there won't be many rebounds. lol Well on the offensive end.

Anderson averaged 9 rebound during his 2 years at Cal. So perhaps Tille tops out around 4-5 rebs per game in the NBA, that's like Matt Bonner with better passing and dribbling. :(


To be fair to Tillie, Gonzaga had Filip Petrusev as their traditional center, so Tillie didn't have a ton of opportunities to board. I think beyond rebounds, you have a player that can dribble and start a break with a pitch ahead pass, make post passes if he gets doubled and can dribble straightline to get to the rim -- all in addition to shooting 40% from three. Additionally, his defense is really underrated. He isn't a shotblocker but like Gasol just knows where to be to deter shots and use verticality. I think he ends up one of the better players in this draft class considering his advanced feel for the game.

Lastly, just to mention Gonzaga, but they have had really great players come through, Brandon Clarke, Zach Collins, and Rui Hachimura all played with Tillie. He gets how to play his role when grouped with talent and plays really well. HIs injuries suck, but if not for his injuries I think he would go earlier in the draft.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3165 » by Dalek » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:51 pm

Indeed wrote:I thought his floor is Linas Kleiza instead. He is taller than Kleiza, but his wingspan are identical of Kleiza / Anderson at 6'10 instead of Gallinari at 7'1.

I am not sure you really expect a late first to mid second pick to be a top 10 type player. Otherwise, he would be picked way ahead, particularly many of the picks above 29 are projected to be a bench / role player.


I think Tillie is where he is slotted because of age and injury risk. A guy like Brogdon fell in the draft because of medical red flags, same as Michael Porter Jr.. Even OG fell because people were likely worried about his injury and recovery period.

Tillie could be like a Michael Porter Jr. type of pick where the team that selects him gets great value that outweighs the risk. Porter Jr. fell to 14 and guys like Kevin Knox, Jerome Robinson, Miles Bridges, and Wendell Carter were picked ahead of him. Tillie may end up a second rounder, but there are a lot of tools that look like NBA ready tools (pick and pop, post-passing, post-scoring).

/edit I thought of his perfect comp. Davis Bertrans is the same size and wingspan at 6'10." Bertrans was a good contributor with the Spurs before breaking out with the Wizards scoring 15 and 5. I think it is pretty reasonable to think Tillie is a good pick if he ends up as effective as Bertrans is. Betrans is projected to make at least $15m per season next year, so having a Killie who immediately will come in and shoot well is like saving money.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3166 » by Dalek » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:48 pm

Killian Tillie's IG:

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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3167 » by Psubs » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:50 pm

Dalek wrote:Killian Tillie's IG:



He's going to sign a 1+1 after his rookie contract, then bolt! :(
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3168 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:56 am



For 2021. So skinny but so skilled!




Porzingis with handles!!! :o
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3169 » by pr0gr4m » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:08 am

I really want Maledon which would require Toronto to trade up. That isn't very likely and with the draft coming closer I would stick with my choice of Paul Reed.

Reed:

Athletic finisher who can score in a variety of ways

Good finisher with touch using either hand. Can get into the paint with advanced moves including Euro-steps.

Bouncy leaper who can block shots and rebound. He plays hard and pushes the break after boards.

Multipositional defender with the lateral quickness to contain perimeter players and the size and length to battle against leaner bigs.
Active help defender who closes out, rotates to contest shots, and jumps passing lanes.

That is exactly what we need at our 5 spot. A completely switchable front court with length and mind alike to play passing lanes would be very good for a transition offense. I also see Reed eventually developing a decent handle and being able to push the ball. He should also be a decent spot up shooter from 3 as well and attack closeouts similar to Ibaka.

For the 2nd rounder I would look at Cassius Winston if he's available. I could see him leading the second unit right away. I would even consider putting Reed in at the 5 right away if Ibaka and Gasol leave.

Reed/
Siakam/
OG/McCaw/Watson
Powell/Davis/Thomas
Lowry/Winston
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3170 » by Dalek » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:03 am

pr0gr4m wrote:I really want Maledon which would require Toronto to trade up. That isn't very likely and with the draft coming closer I would stick with my choice of Paul Reed.

Reed:

Athletic finisher who can score in a variety of ways

Good finisher with touch using either hand. Can get into the paint with advanced moves including Euro-steps.

Bouncy leaper who can block shots and rebound. He plays hard and pushes the break after boards.

Multipositional defender with the lateral quickness to contain perimeter players and the size and length to battle against leaner bigs.
Active help defender who closes out, rotates to contest shots, and jumps passing lanes.

That is exactly what we need at our 5 spot. A completely switchable front court with length and mind alike to play passing lanes would be very good for a transition offense. I also see Reed eventually developing a decent handle and being able to push the ball. He should also be a decent spot up shooter from 3 as well and attack closeouts similar to Ibaka.

For the 2nd rounder I would look at Cassius Winston if he's available. I could see him leading the second unit right away. I would even consider putting Reed in at the 5 right away if Ibaka and Gasol leave.

Reed/
Siakam/
OG/McCaw/Watson
Powell/Davis/Thomas
Lowry/Winston


I want to like Paul Reed because he put up crazy defensive numbers, but he needs to convince people that he will come in and play that type of role in the NBA. The vibe I get from him is kind of like he wants to be a starter and a scorer to show people that he deserved to be ranked higher. The chip on your shoulder thing could backfire for the team that drafts him.

At 29, if someone drafts him it will be as a defensive role player like Pascal was coming in. He will need to exceed in that role first before he turns into Paul George. I just don't really get the best character vibes out of him.

Here are a few quotes from an interview:

At the next level, I think that because the court is more spaced out, I can actually showcase my ability to dribble the ball and make moves. I couldn’t really showcase that at DePaul because that wasn’t my role. I had to box my game in. But in the NBA, once I’m on the court and I have someone in front of me, I’ll be able to go around them.

I can shoot the ball pretty well. My midrange is knockdown and my three-pointer is getting knockdown. I think I’m going to be able to come in and knock down open shots, easily. If there is a dude in my face, I feel like I’m still going to be able to knock a shot down. I’ve been working on it every day. That’s a plus about my game. I showcased that ability at DePaul, being able to knock down shots.

On the court, whatever team I go to, help lead them to the playoffs and hopefully win the championship. Another personal goal: I want to lead the rookies in rebounding. Off the court, I want to help my family get their house together. Fix all the things that are wrong. Do it up for my mom so she can be comfortable, super comfortable.


https://hoopshype.com/2020/08/04/depaul-blue-demons-paul-reed-nba-draft-interview/

I think most agree he is the worst shooter in the draft, so he should just own it and say he is working on his game everyday. Saying he is a knockdown shooter just makes me think he is delusional.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3172 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:54 pm

Dalek wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:I really want Maledon which would require Toronto to trade up. That isn't very likely and with the draft coming closer I would stick with my choice of Paul Reed.

Reed:

Athletic finisher who can score in a variety of ways

Good finisher with touch using either hand. Can get into the paint with advanced moves including Euro-steps.

Bouncy leaper who can block shots and rebound. He plays hard and pushes the break after boards.

Multipositional defender with the lateral quickness to contain perimeter players and the size and length to battle against leaner bigs.
Active help defender who closes out, rotates to contest shots, and jumps passing lanes.

That is exactly what we need at our 5 spot. A completely switchable front court with length and mind alike to play passing lanes would be very good for a transition offense. I also see Reed eventually developing a decent handle and being able to push the ball. He should also be a decent spot up shooter from 3 as well and attack closeouts similar to Ibaka.

For the 2nd rounder I would look at Cassius Winston if he's available. I could see him leading the second unit right away. I would even consider putting Reed in at the 5 right away if Ibaka and Gasol leave.

Reed/
Siakam/
OG/McCaw/Watson
Powell/Davis/Thomas
Lowry/Winston


I want to like Paul Reed because he put up crazy defensive numbers, but he needs to convince people that he will come in and play that type of role in the NBA. The vibe I get from him is kind of like he wants to be a starter and a scorer to show people that he deserved to be ranked higher. The chip on your shoulder thing could backfire for the team that drafts him.

At 29, if someone drafts him it will be as a defensive role player like Pascal was coming in. He will need to exceed in that role first before he turns into Paul George. I just don't really get the best character vibes out of him.

Here are a few quotes from an interview:

At the next level, I think that because the court is more spaced out, I can actually showcase my ability to dribble the ball and make moves. I couldn’t really showcase that at DePaul because that wasn’t my role. I had to box my game in. But in the NBA, once I’m on the court and I have someone in front of me, I’ll be able to go around them.

I can shoot the ball pretty well. My midrange is knockdown and my three-pointer is getting knockdown. I think I’m going to be able to come in and knock down open shots, easily. If there is a dude in my face, I feel like I’m still going to be able to knock a shot down. I’ve been working on it every day. That’s a plus about my game. I showcased that ability at DePaul, being able to knock down shots.

On the court, whatever team I go to, help lead them to the playoffs and hopefully win the championship. Another personal goal: I want to lead the rookies in rebounding. Off the court, I want to help my family get their house together. Fix all the things that are wrong. Do it up for my mom so she can be comfortable, super comfortable.


https://hoopshype.com/2020/08/04/depaul-blue-demons-paul-reed-nba-draft-interview/

I think most agree he is the worst shooter in the draft, so he should just own it and say he is working on his game everyday. Saying he is a knockdown shooter just makes me think he is delusional.


At least he has swagger. :D I mean similar to Ibaka being knockdown from midrange early in his career and now from 3 later in his career. Coaches will be able to rebuild his shot. He wants to lead all rookies in rebounding is an interesting goal and seems like he's ready to hustle and do what it takes. He could be a lanky JYD to start his career.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3173 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:06 pm

Loso04 wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-nba-draft-isiaha-mike-preview


He's like Malik Fitts but lankier and more athletic.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3174 » by LoveMyRaps » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:39 pm

NBA DRAFT - EXACTLY 1 MONTH AWAY

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In Masai We Trust :meditate:
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3175 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:00 pm

What about the Raptors trading their 1st pick for a 2021 1st pick? Would any team be that desperate? :D
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3176 » by DG88 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm

Psubs wrote:What about the Raptors trading their 1st pick for a 2021 1st pick? Would any team be that desperate? :D

Unless there's a Billy King GM out there I doubt it.

The 2021 draft is stacked with the shot creating wing help we need man. There's so much talent in that draft even in the late first.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3177 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:15 pm

DG88 wrote:
Psubs wrote:What about the Raptors trading their 1st pick for a 2021 1st pick? Would any team be that desperate? :D

Unless there's a Billy King GM out there I doubt it.

The 2021 draft is stacked with the shot creating wing help we need man. There's so much talent in that draft even in the late first.


Mini-tank to get a pick as close to the teens as possible? :nod:

Just saw an article suggesting that Ibaka go to Golden State. Maybe if they get #2 and flip it to move down and get a 2021 1st pick. :D
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3178 » by DG88 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:29 pm

Psubs wrote:
DG88 wrote:
Psubs wrote:What about the Raptors trading their 1st pick for a 2021 1st pick? Would any team be that desperate? :D

Unless there's a Billy King GM out there I doubt it.

The 2021 draft is stacked with the shot creating wing help we need man. There's so much talent in that draft even in the late first.


Mini-tank to get a pick as close to the teens as possible? :nod:

I doubt Masai would even entertain a mini tank, unless the entire season falls off the rails. I don't think that will happen not with the players and coaching staff that we have. The mandate is to win and this team has the history of winning games. Now if something happen to our key pieces, like multiple injuries or things don't fall in place and we're middling playoff team then we'd get a benefit of a higher pick.

Either way I have faith in our front office to find a really good player in next years draft.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3179 » by pr0gr4m » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:15 pm

Dalek wrote:I want to like Paul Reed because he put up crazy defensive numbers, but he needs to convince people that he will come in and play that type of role in the NBA. The vibe I get from him is kind of like he wants to be a starter and a scorer to show people that he deserved to be ranked higher. The chip on your shoulder thing could backfire for the team that drafts him.

His defensive and rebounding numbers are very intriguing and that is the foremost reason I would want to bring him to Toronto with the first rounder. We aren't a lottery team and we just won the last legitimate / non-asterisk championship 8-)

He can prove he's a scorer in the Gleague and work on his offensive game there. I don't see the same downsides as you do. The only downside to his game is that his jumper won't allow for him to shoot off the dribble very well. That isn't really need that from your center and I think he can develop a good post game if we wanted him to.

At 29, if someone drafts him it will be as a defensive role player like Pascal was coming in. He will need to exceed in that role first before he turns into Paul George. I just don't really get the best character vibes out of him.

When we drafted OG he said he was going to come into the NBA and be a 3 point shooter when he shot around the same percentage as Reed.

The biggest take away from this interview:

Reed will take adversity well and work hard. I'm sure he will see the next level demanding a better shot, tighter handle, etc and based on his interview he has that swag, resistance to work through those tough rookie year stretches. I can see him building a lot of confidence in the Gleague and really shining as the third big if not start centering next season.

Here are a few quotes from an interview:

At the next level, I think that because the court is more spaced out, I can actually showcase my ability to dribble the ball and make moves. I couldn’t really showcase that at DePaul because that wasn’t my role. I had to box my game in. But in the NBA, once I’m on the court and I have someone in front of me, I’ll be able to go around them.

I can shoot the ball pretty well. My midrange is knockdown and my three-pointer is getting knockdown. I think I’m going to be able to come in and knock down open shots, easily. If there is a dude in my face, I feel like I’m still going to be able to knock a shot down. I’ve been working on it every day. That’s a plus about my game. I showcased that ability at DePaul, being able to knock down shots.

On the court, whatever team I go to, help lead them to the playoffs and hopefully win the championship. Another personal goal: I want to lead the rookies in rebounding. Off the court, I want to help my family get their house together. Fix all the things that are wrong. Do it up for my mom so she can be comfortable, super comfortable.


https://hoopshype.com/2020/08/04/depaul-blue-demons-paul-reed-nba-draft-interview/



He basically answered your first point about him not knowing his role. He followed his role at DePaul and didn't put the ball on the floor or try to create his own shot. His jumper has noticably improved since his first season and it could be built upon to turn him into a good spot up shooter from 3.


I think most agree he is the worst shooter in the draft, so he should just own it and say he is working on his game everyday. Saying he is a knockdown shooter just makes me think he is delusional.

He is not the worst shooter in the draft and he did say he works on his shot everyday. I highlighted the parts that refute your points about him.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#3180 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:26 pm

I guess Reed can be a small ball C a la Theis.
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