Fred’s next contract

[Dr Positivity]

As long as we move Powell which isn't that hard, our cap situation in 2021 isn't that bad. Big 3 of FVV, Siakam and Giannis.

[HeadtopChunes]

As long as we move Powell which isn't that hard, our cap situation in 2021 isn't that bad. Big 3 of FVV, Siakam and Giannis.

Powell could simply opt-out too.

Theres a lot of money to go around that year and he can chase a long term deal since he will be 27/28

[Lateral Quicks]

FVV is being really smart by marketing himself so well. He's doing a tonne of promotions for local brands (Canadian Tire, Roots, etc.). He's a likeable, hard-working guy, and it's hard to turn those guys down when it comes time for free agency.

I would certainly hope $20M per year gets it done. 5 years/$100M sounds reasonable for both sides. As much as I like FVV, he still hasn't shown me enough as a true point, and I'm not paying an undersized 2-guard or combo guard more than $20M per year.

I hope he sees that the starting PG spot will be available to him in a year or two, and obviously the minutes are available to him now. Hopefully he also realizes that the Raptors system has helped/complemented his game, and that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

If he demands $30M per year, unfortunately I think you have to let him walk.

[twoheadedboy]

What kind of bonuses can a team add to a player's deal? I'd hope they could come to something like 5/90 with a couple of incentives (ASG, All-NBA, ECF, AST/TO, 3PT %) and a PO for the final year.

[AP4LIFE]

I think Masai will not trade him before the deadline (assuming raps are not getting equivelent value in return) to see how FVV performs in the playoffs without Kawhi attracting all the attention and leaving him open for 3's. If we get to the east finals with Freddy playing well, making big shots and go the distance, pay him whatever his market value.
We can trade Lowry in the summer of 2020 for a salary cap relief (and I'm huge fan of him)

A players market value doesn't decrease in the playoffs, it only increases. If so the sixers wouldn't have given Harris the max. Same with the bucks overpaying their players who played bad in the conference finals.

Its true in most cases however low profile player like FVV might not be a great example of this theory. Would he get 30 million a year if he played like he played vs the 76sixers?

[Gold Dragon]

I think Masai will not trade him before the deadline (assuming raps are not getting equivelent value in return) to see how FVV performs in the playoffs without Kawhi attracting all the attention and leaving him open for 3's. If we get to the east finals with Freddy playing well, making big shots and go the distance, pay him whatever his market value.
We can trade Lowry in the summer of 2020 for a salary cap relief (and I'm huge fan of him)

A players market value doesn't decrease in the playoffs, it only increases. If so the sixers wouldn't have given Harris the max. Same with the bucks overpaying their players who played bad in the conference finals.

Its true in most cases however low profile player like FVV might not be a great example of this theory. Would he get 30 million a year if he played like he played vs the 76sixers?

No but he would if he played like he played vs the Warriors and how he has since then.

[JShuttlesworth]

Before the season started I was (and still remain) cautious with handing out too big of a contract to Fred.

I think it's going to cost us roughly $120 million for 5 years ($20-25 million per year). That's a lot of cap space too.

Then I looked deeper into the numbers over the 10 games since Lowry has been out.

21.2 PPG / 7.5 APG / 3.8 RPG / .402 3P%

Maybe Fred is the real deal. This guy has been slowly proving me wrong over the years, similar to how Lowry won me over. The transition of the torch seems so natural with Lowry under contract for one more season and Fred's contract looming. I think he stays in Toronto.

[TheRealDeal]

[bootsythornton]

the only team dumb enough to offer this type of deal at $30m is the Knicks.

Love Fred, but at 30m per year he walks.

4 years $80m is a solid deal for both sides.

Powell has to go

[SHFT]

Well unlike some people who have completely changed their minds about him after about 10 good games, I base my opinion of him on this year as well as his previous 3 seasons and not just what he has done recently. In past years, he has struggled to be a consistent shooter (hot and cold) and be a good play maker. Most people who have watched Raptors games would agree with that. I would still say he is below average in creating opportunities for others. Like I said, he has a habit of over dribbling and wasting most of the clock and at times he looks for his own shot too much. This has improved somewhat this season but it has been a tendency of his.

Yes, he has been playing well this season but it's 20 games and only 12 games or so as starting point guard. Plus, this is a contract year and he's obviously looking for a big pay day so improving his play is not uncommon. It's not like we haven't seen this before from other players in contract years so you have to be weary.

You are going to reference his play while he was an undrafted guard assigned to the G league lmao? Im guessing you didnt want to max Pascal based on that EXACT SAME LOGIC? Please answer this.

When a team is looking at paying their rookie who is in year 4 of his deal, do you think they are like "well he had a pretty bad first year so lets pump the brakes". Players grow, they adapt, they learn.

Past yearS? as in plural? how do you figure? When was he running the point as a starter these last few years that you are drawing this information from? I use a limited sample size because that is what we have. We had a limited sample size with Pascal as a quasi # 1 option (22 games to be exact) so how is this different?

In past years, he has struggled to be a consistent shooter (hot and cold) and be a good play maker.

He is a career 40% shooter from downtown. That means he missed 60% of them. Its still in the elite category. If all you have to say is that Philly and Milwuakee stretch before his son was born I have something to say to you. He had exactly 10 games in that stretch when he was cold as ice. That is 3 games less than The Bargnani Rule. Also, his son wasnt born, could be some complications, who knows. I wont get into it because its speculation. What we do know for a FACT is after FVV JR popped, his daddy became everyones daddy. Other than that 1 stretch where the 1 thing in the world was probably weighing on his mind more than basketball, do you have another example?

Again with the playmaking, where are you getting this from? Please provide numbers over these last 2 years where he actually had a role as a playmaker that suggests he is not good at it. Where do you think these high assist and low turn ever numbers come from?

This year, his assist % is 29.5. Its not an other wordly number by any means but at the same time, FVV is not a pass first point guard like a CP3 or a Rubio (its a dying breed of pg imo). FWIW, Lowry's assist % is 28 and Pauls is 29.1.

So please do tell, what on earth are you referring to when it comes to his playmaking?

Why are you using extremes when I'm talking about his entire career playing with the Raptors? Did I just comment on how he played as a rookie? Are you going to ignore all those comments I made about how he's improved since he came up?

No, I'm not talking about that stretch in the playoffs. Again, I don't talk in extremes like you seem to. Please go take a look at his game logs from last season. It's one good shooting night, followed by one bad shooting night and repeats with small variances. Thus, I made the observation that his shooting isn't always consistent. As a whole, he is a good shooter. I never denied that.

As for his playmaking, where did I get this idea from? Well, it seems to me you had the same observation one reply ago?

He isnt a good passer? I had this thought last year but he has been superb running the show this year.

I don't even know why you mention Pascal. He's a totally different player and the situations are different. Just because we maxxed him doesn't mean you can draw the same conclusion about FVV.

Yes, he has been playing well this season but it's 20 games and only 12 games or so as starting point guard

Your logic was FVV's lack of a sample size . That is why I bring up Pascal. It is a direct example. If you dont like the example its not my problem lol but it is absolutely relevant based on your exact logic. Feel free to dispute it if you want.

In past years, he has struggled to be a consistent shooter (hot and cold) and be a good play maker. Most people who have watched Raptors games would agree with that. I would still say he is below average in creating opportunities for others.

As for his playmaking, where did I get this idea from? Well, it seems to me you had the same observation one reply ago?

Its not the same observation because I clearly said I had that thought LAST YEAR. This year (as lead guard, which is relevant) I said sublime and you said below average. So CP3 and Lowry are below average playmakers? Maybe consider that we have Pascal, Gasol AND Lowry on the floor with him for a solid chunk (even last year after we got Gasol). That is 4 guys who can make plays, why is this on FVV's shoulders to be an elite playmaker when we clearly have built a team where everyone can do a bit of everything? Our offence revolves around ball movement and the ball flies. If FVV was iso'ing all the time you would have a point. But as lead guard his job is to reset the plays when they dont work or break down. Again, im not sure what you expect him to do other than hang on to the ball while everyone resets. What would you propose in these scenarios?


Why am I talking about rookies? FVV is just starting his 4th year. Exactly 3 years ago, he would have just been starting his first year....you said you are looking at data (which you havent really provided) over the last 3 seasons so that would include his rookie season but let me re phrase it for you anyways:

Do you think GMs that are looking to pay their expiring rookie say "well, he had a bad 2nd year, lets pump the breaks". You are drawing data from games when he literally just entered the league. He got better. That is literally how development works and is something we obviously pride ourselves on. The thought is he will continue to refine and polish his game. If you think he wont then go and say it lol but you didnt even do that.

FVV is a 40% shooter from downtown. IDC if he has a hot game here and a cold game there. He is an elite 3 pt shooter any way you slice it. What are you looking for? A guy that will shoot 40% every game, never hotter and never colder? That doesnt happen lol. Even Steph who is like the GOAT shooter has up and down stretches (obviously not the same extent).

Lets take a look at FVV's 3pt shooting last year (his worst year by far other than his rookie year where he shot less than 1 per game).

November - 36.2%
December - 38.7%
January - 38.1%
February - 35%
March - 44.2%
April RS - 38.1%

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2991230/type/nba/year/2019

and finally, yes it is a contract year. You have to look at what you know about FVV the person. We obviously dont KNOW him, but from what we have seen, do you think he is the type of guy to pack it in once he gets paid? I dont think so but feel free to dispute it but I wouldnt compare an undrafted FVV to some lazy bum (who was 100% getting drafted) who is looking to get paid. You either trust Masai knows FVV well enough or you dont.

[DelAbbot]

How do I star posts and fav poster?

This take is on a level most on this board ca not comprehend.

My guess is you play a lot of sports GM sim games.

Not okay with paying FVV 20 million plus.

Welcome Terence Davis II, our new PG of the future!

Then when TD becomes a good player and asks for 20 million per year, you let him go and start the cycle all over again ? I'm not directing this at you specifically, but how old are people here ? "Fred isn't worth X" No, whatever a team is ready to give FVV, that's his worth. And if trash players or respectable players at best like eric gordan (15 mill), D Russell (27 million), Dragic (20 million), James Johnson (15 million), Dennis Schrodeor ( 15 million), Reggie F-ing Jackson (18 million), Eric Bledose (15 million), etc, all make 15 million or more, what do you think a guy like Fred who was an important player on a world champ team will ask for ? He's starting at 20 million per year period ! He's giving you 18 and 8, while shooting 40% from behind the arc and leading a title contending team. Even if MU doesn't want to give him 20 million per year. He will. Because in the NBA you just don't let assets walk away. The Warriors even begged Durant to do a S &T rather than him just walking away. That's how GM's think.

On another note. I've been watching this team from day 1. Literally at the skydome dodging bird crap during the game. With the exception of I.Thomas, all the GM's we had were incompetent. They were so incompetent, that even with the 1st overall pick, they'd still mess up the draft. Each year the people calling the draft would laugh at us once it was our turn to select. I can remember the whole stadium laughing at us for taking Hoffa over Andre.Iggy. Now we have the best GM in the league. We're drafting stars with late 1st rounders (Pascal) or drafting good rotation players in the 2nd round (Norman). We're even signing good un-drafted players with FVV and now TD. What MU/Webster are doing year after year is unheard off. You may be luck to get one gem in the late 1st round/ 2nd round, but doing it each year, while even doing it with undrafted players ?? That's crazy.

I use to always wish one-day we have a good drafting front office. Now we finally have that, and all these lil we the north kids are crying about paying them ? "If FVV wants 20 million we let him walk" ?!?!?! Are you guys sick ? Do you know how hard it is to draft a good starting PG in the NBA with a 1st round pick, let alone undrafted ? You spoiled brats who in the last 6 years got to witness good long playoff basketball, with an amazing front office, and now a championship, need to start showing some appreciation for what we have and what MU/Webster have been doing. Stop complaining about paying good players. I'd rather overpay a good player like FVV, than the trash I listed up. James Johnson 15 mill, Reggie Jackson 18 mill. Yuk !!!!

It's hard to draft good players, even in the first round - and especially outside the lottery. However, you don't win championships by paying players their open market value. The open market value is almost always gonna be set by some desperate **** organization like the Knicks or Kings (aka knicks west).

We won last year because:

1. Warriors were injured
2. We had a bunch of guys that outplayed their contracts. Siakam on 2m a year. FVV on 10m a year. Kawhi on 18m a year.

If those guys were all being paid their market value, then that's like 30m+ more salary on the books, meaning we dont have Lowry.

Look at the previous teams that won chips, they all had one guy that massively overpreformed their contract:

Warriors : steph/kd are both worth way more than the max
Cavs: Lebron
Spurs: everyone is underpaid

If we pay FVV 20/25m, we need him to avg 20/10 if we wanna keep winning.

And BTW, all the players you listed are on negative-value contracts, meaning the team would have to give up assets to find a team to take them. The idea is to not hand out one of those contracts.

Sent from my SM-G950W using RealGM mobile app

[2019nbachamps]

the only team dumb enough to offer this type of deal at $30m is the Knicks.

Love Fred, but at 30m per year he walks.

4 years $80m is a solid deal for both sides.

Powell has to go

Doesn't make sense for Fred to accept this deal. If he performs well as a starter once Lowry is gone then he'd be one of the most underpaid PGs in the league. The going rate for top PGs now is $30-40m a season. Fred is not at that level but he still has the potential to get there, so why would he lock himself in at $20m a year? I think 4 yrs $100-$110m is fair from the Raptors side. If FVV wants more money, he needs to ask himself if it's worth making an extra $20m is worth being on an awful team like Charlotte or the Knicks. Comes down to personal choice.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

FVV has always been trying to prove to others so he's going to take the big paycheque where ever it comes from.

Knicks offering him $30M - I could see it happening and FVV could play at an all star level, probably at Mike Conley reputaton, for those years. I don't think he's a first ballot all star but he could get in as a reserve. he has a non flashy game but comes in the clutch.

[nestea]

Here's an ideas, let's just see how he plays the rest of the year.

[DreamTeam09]

We are competing against ourselves giving FVV even 20 a year. How does

[Psubs]

I think Masai will not trade him before the deadline (assuming raps are not getting equivelent value in return) to see how FVV performs in the playoffs without Kawhi attracting all the attention and leaving him open for 3's. If we get to the east finals with Freddy playing well, making big shots and go the distance, pay him whatever his market value.
We can trade Lowry in the summer of 2020 for a salary cap relief (and I'm huge fan of him)

A players market value doesn't decrease in the playoffs, it only increases. If so the sixers wouldn't have given Harris the max. Same with the bucks overpaying their players who played bad in the conference finals.

Its true in most cases however low profile player like FVV might not be a great example of this theory. Would he get 30 million a year if he played like he played vs the 76sixers?

We should offer Brogdon level money and Fred should take it.

4th year player option.

[jimmy keys]

Here's an ideas, let's just see how he plays the rest of the year.

Nah. If he's asking for the same deal as Pascal then that's insane. He could win Finals MVP and I still wouldn't give a max deal.

[AP4LIFE]

A players market value doesn't decrease in the playoffs, it only increases. If so the sixers wouldn't have given Harris the max. Same with the bucks overpaying their players who played bad in the conference finals.

Its true in most cases however low profile player like FVV might not be a great example of this theory. Would he get 30 million a year if he played like he played vs the 76sixers?

We should offer Brogdon level money and Fred should take it.

4th year player option.

Agree he should be paid around 20-22 million a year anything more tha this will be an overpay