Siakam for Towns

[Black Watch]

His defense is not as bad as you all make it out to be, but his footwork and positioning are bad, he is not the most aware—especially in transition—doesn't change direction well either. But he can protect the rim well when in position—he's good in the post with that length of his.

But his offensive game, with really good playmaking, incredible scoring, and spacing, is so good that I wouldn't think twice about trading Siakim for him.

He has the tools to be a modern day DPOY center. Yes he's not tough, though he has the foot speed and lateral quicks to keep up with most guards. During his rookie year the Wolves were one of few teams that defeated the 73-9 Warriors, and Towns being able to switch onto Curry was one of those reasons. My problem with him is that his defensive effort seems to reflect his mood. He looked like a good defensive anchor to start the year, but when they started losing that's when he let it get to him, and his effort wavered.

With the Raptors, he'd be playing with the best organization and set of players he's ever played with.

I don't know about DPOY, but if he could muster some consistent awareness so that he can get some decent reads and not lunge after passes, that would be a start. And then maybe not swipe at the ball while backpedaling, not close his hips to the ball when defending off the screen, not bite on every up-fake, and not take those annoying bunny-hop blocks that raise his centre of gravity and turn him into a wobbly statue.

He'll never be agile on the perimeter, he'll never venture up to the level of the screen and stop pull-up shooters from scoring, but if he can do just some of the little things, then he'd be the total package.

Maybe a new organization puts that pep in his step, I don't know. But I would trade Siakim for the chance to find out!

[Kabookalu]

His defense is not as bad as you all make it out to be, but his footwork and positioning are bad, he is not the most aware—especially in transition—doesn't change direction well either. But he can protect the rim well when in position—he's good in the post with that length of his.

But his offensive game, with really good playmaking, incredible scoring, and spacing, is so good that I wouldn't think twice about trading Siakim for him.

He has the tools to be a modern day DPOY center. Yes he's not tough, though he has the foot speed and lateral quicks to keep up with most guards. During his rookie year the Wolves were one of few teams that defeated the 73-9 Warriors, and Towns being able to switch onto Curry was one of those reasons. My problem with him is that his defensive effort seems to reflect his mood. He looked like a good defensive anchor to start the year, but when they started losing that's when he let it get to him, and his effort wavered.

With the Raptors, he'd be playing with the best organization and set of players he's ever played with.

I don't know about DPOY, but if he could muster some consistent awareness so that he can get some decent reads and not lunge after passes, that would be a start. And then maybe not swipe at the ball while backpedaling, not close his hips to the ball when defending off the screen, not bite on every up-fake, and not take those annoying bunny-hop blocks that raise his centre of gravity and turn him into a wobbly statue.

He'll never be agile on the perimeter, he'll never venture up to the level of the screen and stop pull-up shooters from scoring, but if he can do just some of the little things, then he'd be the total package.

Maybe a new organization puts that pep in his step, I don't know. But I would trade Siakim for the chance to find out!

I don't mean that he has the chance to win DPOY, but he has the tools for it. Big mobile body with a 7'4 wingspan. A lot of people forget that Anthony Davis wasn't a good defender for the first couple of years, but just by having the tools he improved enough where he's now seen as a contender for DPOY (even though I myself think he's overrated). And I disagree that he isn't agile enough on the perimeter, but I understand why one would think that way, too many times he looks like he's wearing 20 pound shoes. Last year he did look like he got caught with his pants down a lot, but I believe that's due to bad anticipation and technique, because I saw a lot of times where whenever he did anticipate his opponent and shifted his feet really fast, I was like 'whoa, how can a 7fter move like that?'

Personally I don't think Towns takes enough pride in his defense, which is definitely a red flag, however it's not like Pascal Siakam is a defensive juggernaut (though he still has the reputation of one according to Raptors fans). His defense against Atlanta last night made me want to vomit, making half hearted attempts at a steal, only to give up on the play, get blown by, and watch his teammates clean up his mess for him.

[Blaze4G]

I am shocked most raps fans wouldn't take Towns for Siakam. I don't think Minny even considers it if Masai doesn't offer additional pieces or picks.

I don't see Siakam ever being at KAT current level and I don't think Kat has peaked yet. Seems like some here consider Siakam to already be better than Kat right now because of defense. I just think KAT being in a losing situation and not having other players around him that is good on defense makes him look bad and not play hard on that end.

If Raps had Kat instead of Siakam I would put them as a major contender for the east.

[Blaze4G]

This board will say no. But KAT is a legit superstar and I would do it.

In an ideal world, you pair the 2 together.

Superstar? Come on guys.

Minnesota record since Towns arrived:
29-53 (13th)
31-51 (13th)
47-35 (8th)
36-46 (11th)
15-25 (13th) - current season.

There's a reason Jimmy Butler wanted out from Minnesota. Towns simply doesn't have the it factor.

Also, Siakam is Masai's boy, he literally wouldn't trade him for anyone in the NBA (not even kidding). Siakam is also a much more versatile player.

I'd take Towns to compliment Siakam, but not willing to pay what it costs to get him.

Serious question, do you think if Minny had Siakam for those years (I know Siakam has played 1 less season) they would have a better record, all else being constant?

I personally don't see it.

[mieshpal]

Siakim for Towns hahahahahahahahah why the hell would we give up a winner for someone who plays the game like they have won 5 championships already

[Black Watch]

I don't mean that he has the chance to win DPOY, but he has the tools for it. Big mobile body with a 7'4 wingspan. A lot of people forget that Anthony Davis wasn't a good defender for the first couple of years, but just by having the tools he improved enough where he's now seen as a contender for DPOY (even though I myself think he's overrated). And I disagree that he isn't agile enough on the perimeter, but I understand why one would think that way, too many times he looks like he's wearing 20 pound shoes. Last year he did look like he got caught with his pants down a lot, but I believe that's due to bad anticipation and technique, because I saw a lot of times where whenever he did anticipate his opponent and shifted his feet really fast, I was like 'whoa, how can a 7fter move like that?'

Lot of good points here. And I hope you're right, because offensively he is a fun player to watch and improving his defence would give him more of the credit he deserves.

Personally I don't think Towns takes enough pride in his defense, which is definitely a red flag, however it's not like Pascal Siakam is a defensive juggernaut (though he still has the reputation of one according to Raptors fans). His defense against Atlanta last night made me want to vomit, making half hearted attempts at a steal, only to give up on the play, get blown by, and watch his teammates clean up his mess for him.

100%

[-AirCanada-]

???

Go check his season numbers before you hit me with a “haha” off 1 game where he was returning from injury.

thank the lord you ain't the GM boy

Lmfao arent you the same guy that said Demar is better than Siakam a few games ago? Dont quote me again.

If you read the actual convo you would maybe just maybe pick up I was being sarcastic because other posters were saying that.

Just take 2 seconds and read.

HAHA

[-AirCanada-]

This would be an even better and shrewder version of the DeRozan for Kawhi trade.

Siakam's better than DeRozan defensively for sure, but offensively basically the same ****. His scoring numbers and efficiency are right in the territory DeRozan's were and he'll be swallowed whole in the playoffs masquerading as a #1 option. Also because of his mediocre ability to shoot, he isn't really a great fit with other superstars on the offensive end (on defense he's fine).

Towns would fit like a glove with Giannis and is one of the best 6 or 7 offensive players in the league. No brainer if you can get him for Siakam+ add ons you absolutely pull the trigger.

what a awful post

[Raps in 4]

This board will say no. But KAT is a legit superstar and I would do it.

In an ideal world, you pair the 2 together.

Superstar? Come on guys.

Minnesota record since Towns arrived:
29-53 (13th)
31-51 (13th)
47-35 (8th)
36-46 (11th)
15-25 (13th) - current season.

There's a reason Jimmy Butler wanted out from Minnesota. Towns simply doesn't have the it factor.

Also, Siakam is Masai's boy, he literally wouldn't trade him for anyone in the NBA (not even kidding). Siakam is also a much more versatile player.

I'd take Towns to compliment Siakam, but not willing to pay what it costs to get him.

Serious question, do you think if Minny had Siakam for those years (I know Siakam has played 1 less season) they would have a better record, all else being constant?

I personally don't see it.

Yes. Siakam has a bigger inpact on winning than Towns. Now, would Siakam have developed in that environment? That's another question entirely.

[Senbonzakura]

This would be an even better and shrewder version of the DeRozan for Kawhi trade.

Siakam's better than DeRozan defensively for sure, but offensively basically the same ****. His scoring numbers and efficiency are right in the territory DeRozan's were and he'll be swallowed whole in the playoffs masquerading as a #1 option. Also because of his mediocre ability to shoot, he isn't really a great fit with other superstars on the offensive end (on defense he's fine).

Towns would fit like a glove with Giannis and is one of the best 6 or 7 offensive players in the league. No brainer if you can get him for Siakam+ add ons you absolutely pull the trigger.

what a awful post

Why is it an awful post? How about you argue the actual points?

Siakam's offensive production right now is extremely similar to DeRozan's when in the same role here. He has almost identical scoring, usage and scoring efficiency to DeRozan's last season here. DeRozan was actually doing better in win shares and offensive rating.

His defense is way better than DeMar's but not exactly elite. If a KAT for Siakam trade were actually on the table we would be idiots not to take it.

[-AirCanada-]

This would be an even better and shrewder version of the DeRozan for Kawhi trade.

Siakam's better than DeRozan defensively for sure, but offensively basically the same ****. His scoring numbers and efficiency are right in the territory DeRozan's were and he'll be swallowed whole in the playoffs masquerading as a #1 option. Also because of his mediocre ability to shoot, he isn't really a great fit with other superstars on the offensive end (on defense he's fine).

Towns would fit like a glove with Giannis and is one of the best 6 or 7 offensive players in the league. No brainer if you can get him for Siakam+ add ons you absolutely pull the trigger.

what a awful post

Why is it an awful post? How about you argue the actual points?

Siakam's offensive production right now is extremely similar to DeRozan's when in the same role here. He has almost identical scoring, usage and scoring efficiency to DeRozan's last season here. DeRozan was actually doing better in win shares and offensive rating.

His defense is way better than DeMar's but not exactly elite. If a KAT for Siakam trade were actually on the table we would be idiots not to take it.

lmao

Baiting. Be constructive. --Duff

[Courtside]

what a awful post

Why is it an awful post? How about you argue the actual points?

Siakam's offensive production right now is extremely similar to DeRozan's when in the same role here. He has almost identical scoring, usage and scoring efficiency to DeRozan's last season here. DeRozan was actually doing better in win shares and offensive rating.

His defense is way better than DeMar's but not exactly elite. If a KAT for Siakam trade were actually on the table we would be idiots not to take it.

Derozan was a net negative for every year here but one, while that isn't the case for Pascal. He *is* better* both offensively and defensively, but that's not even the primary issue with Demar. Yes those things were bad, but somehow we ended up being 57,58, 59 win teams with him. No, the major problem with Demar is that he completely disappeared in most playoff games. Even if he couldn't be his usual regular self, he just needed to be a regular 18-4-4 guy who pitched in a decent amount and wasn't a huge liability... but he was.

For any one good playoff game he had in a series (and it was usually only one), he was below average in two others, and absolutely godawful and unplayable in 3 more. We were better without him in the playoffs, period.

SIakam may have had the luxury of Kawhi here, but his numbers went up across the board. There was no sign of playoff yips or disappearing acts or becoming a 225 lb dead weight that was sinking the rest of the team. He has earned the right to continue improving and prove himself as a primary scorer in the playoffs. Demar had many, many chances and persistently came up shot, whereas Pascal has not yet had those chances as a #1, and has a Champion season under his belt as a very solid contributor under his belt.

There's little reason to think he's going to implode and become a pumpkin every playoffs like Demar invariably did.

[-AirCanada-]

what a awful post

Why is it an awful post? How about you argue the actual points?

Siakam's offensive production right now is extremely similar to DeRozan's when in the same role here. He has almost identical scoring, usage and scoring efficiency to DeRozan's last season here. DeRozan was actually doing better in win shares and offensive rating.

His defense is way better than DeMar's but not exactly elite. If a KAT for Siakam trade were actually on the table we would be idiots not to take it.

Derozan was a net negative for every year here but one, while that isn't the case for Pascal. He *is* better* both offensively and defensively, but that's not even the primary issue with Demar. Yes those things were bad, but somehow we ended up being 57,58, 59 win teams with him. No, the major problem with Demar is that he completely disappeared in most playoff games. Even if he couldn't be his usual regular self, he just needed to be a regular 18-4-4 guy who pitched in a decent amount and wasn't a huge liability... but he was.

For any one good playoff game he had in a series (and it was usually only one), he was below average in two others, and absolutely godawful and unplayable in 3 more. We were better without him in the playoffs, period.

SIakam may have had the luxury of Kawhi here, but his numbers went up across the board. There was no sign of playoff yips or disappearing acts or becoming a 225 lb dead weight that was sinking the rest of the team. He has earned the right to continue improving and prove himself as a primary scorer in the playoffs. Demar had many, many chances and persistently came up shot, whereas Pascal has not yet had those chances as a #1, and has a Champion season under his belt as a very solid contributor under his belt.

There's little reason to think he's going to implode and become a pumpkin every playoffs like Demar invariably did.

you gave him the respect I didn't want to

your a better man then me

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Superstar? Come on guys.

Minnesota record since Towns arrived:
29-53 (13th)
31-51 (13th)
47-35 (8th)
36-46 (11th)
15-25 (13th) - current season.

There's a reason Jimmy Butler wanted out from Minnesota. Towns simply doesn't have the it factor.

Also, Siakam is Masai's boy, he literally wouldn't trade him for anyone in the NBA (not even kidding). Siakam is also a much more versatile player.

I'd take Towns to compliment Siakam, but not willing to pay what it costs to get him.

Serious question, do you think if Minny had Siakam for those years (I know Siakam has played 1 less season) they would have a better record, all else being constant?

I personally don't see it.

Yes. Siakam has a bigger inpact on winning than Towns. Now, would Siakam have developed in that environment? That's another question entirely.

"impact on winning" is overrated considering Towns is surrounded by a bunch of idiots in management and hella overrated players with no point guard. if Raptors didn't have FVV or Lowry or Gasol or even coach Nurse, Siakam would be manning a lottery-bound team TBH. Siakam would still put up points but his efficiency would be crap. Even Kobe Bryant, a winner by all accounts, without great teammates was a fringe playoff team and threatened management to change it up.

don't hate on Towns just because he doesn't play for a winning team. I bet you wouldn't take AD either considering he's not a "winning" player.

[OakleyDokely]

This would be an even better and shrewder version of the DeRozan for Kawhi trade.

Siakam's better than DeRozan defensively for sure, but offensively basically the same ****. His scoring numbers and efficiency are right in the territory DeRozan's were and he'll be swallowed whole in the playoffs masquerading as a #1 option. Also because of his mediocre ability to shoot, he isn't really a great fit with other superstars on the offensive end (on defense he's fine).

Towns would fit like a glove with Giannis and is one of the best 6 or 7 offensive players in the league. No brainer if you can get him for Siakam+ add ons you absolutely pull the trigger.

Towns is no Kawhi though. If Towns had the impact of Kawhi the Wolves wouldnt be as bad as they are.

He's a really good player, but he's in a tier below the superstars, the same tier as Siakam. Raps wouldnt be any closer to a championship with this trade.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

This would be an even better and shrewder version of the DeRozan for Kawhi trade.

Siakam's better than DeRozan defensively for sure, but offensively basically the same ****. His scoring numbers and efficiency are right in the territory DeRozan's were and he'll be swallowed whole in the playoffs masquerading as a #1 option. Also because of his mediocre ability to shoot, he isn't really a great fit with other superstars on the offensive end (on defense he's fine).

Towns would fit like a glove with Giannis and is one of the best 6 or 7 offensive players in the league. No brainer if you can get him for Siakam+ add ons you absolutely pull the trigger.

Towns is no Kawhi though. If Towns had the impact of Kawhi the Wolves wouldnt be as bad as they are.

He's a really good player, but he's in a tier below the superstars, the same tier as Siakam. Raps wouldnt be any closer to a championship with this trade.

Raps would play a different style if they had Towns but I think Towns is a lot more skilled, offensively, for sure. The only thing I question about Towns is mental effort at times. but we have watched Siakam chuck it up too and take really bad shots...

but I think you're right, both players are at that tier and I've said this before - guards are more pertinent to winning in this day and age than bigs. I have rather have an elite point guard than an elite big man.

[Yeezus_]

I feel like a lot of you haven't really seen how dominant KAT is offensively. Easily a top 5-7 offensive player in this league. I really think if he's in the right system, environment and situation, he can improve himself to be a solid defender.

[Raps in 4]

Serious question, do you think if Minny had Siakam for those years (I know Siakam has played 1 less season) they would have a better record, all else being constant?

I personally don't see it.

Yes. Siakam has a bigger inpact on winning than Towns. Now, would Siakam have developed in that environment? That's another question entirely.

"impact on winning" is overrated considering Towns is surrounded by a bunch of idiots in management and hella overrated players with no point guard. if Raptors didn't have FVV or Lowry or Gasol or even coach Nurse, Siakam would be manning a lottery-bound team TBH. Siakam would still put up points but his efficiency would be crap. Even Kobe Bryant, a winner by all accounts, without great teammates was a fringe playoff team and threatened management to change it up.

don't hate on Towns just because he doesn't play for a winning team. I bet you wouldn't take AD either considering he's not a "winning" player.

There are stats that track impact, irrespective of teammates. Siakam rates much better than KAT in these stats because he plays defence.

[Raps in 4]

I feel like a lot of you haven't really seen how dominant KAT is offensively. Easily a top 5-7 offensive player in this league. I really think if he's in the right system, environment and situation, he can improve himself to be a solid defender.

And he's a bottom tier defensive player.

[duppyy]

We'll see how Siakam does in the playoffs. His performance against Philly in game 7 was disheartening. Deferring to Kawhi at every chance and no willingness to score except on a fast break.