2019-20 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2

[fbalmeida]

A sign and trade for Giannis will only happen if he chooses to go to a team that does not have the cap space. As was the case with the Nets: their intent on signing Durant, Irving, and Jordan would have them over the threshold. The Rozier-Kemba dual sign-and-trade was, in reality, a harmless gesture by Boston. They would've landed Kemba anyway, and signed-and-traded a free agent they never wanted.

The Raptors will have cap space.

If you're Masai on the phone with the Bucks front-office in the summer of 2021, being asked to consider a sign-and-trade that surrenders them Siakam because Giannis wants to play for your team, that is going to be a comically short and unproductive conversation.

Let's be real and practical here.

[Raptors_128]

I think LaVine would be a good get. He would much cheaper than someone like Beal.

[Rapsfan07]

A sign and trade for Giannis will only happen if he chooses to go to a team that does not have the cap space. As was the case with the Nets: their intent on signing Durant, Irving, and Jordan would have them over the threshold. The Rozier-Kemba dual sign-and-trade was, in reality, a harmless gesture by Boston. They would've landed Kemba anyway, and signed-and-traded a free agent they never wanted.

The Raptors will have cap space.

If you're Masai on the phone with the Bucks front-office in the summer of 2021, being asked to consider a sign-and-trade that surrenders them Siakam because Giannis wants to play for your team, that is going to be a comically short and unproductive conversation.

Let's be real and practical here.

True but I think this thought process doesn't take into account the other very real scenario - what if Giannis doesn't choose us?

There will be no shortage of teams clearing space for Giannis. What we really don't want to do is find ourselves in a place where we're declining trades for useful players, dumping quality guys for capspace and then he doesn't come.

So if I were Masai, I would be hitting the trade market hard for quality guys that are either:

A) really good, young, play a position of need and can be had cheaply/on fair and reasonable long term deals
AND/OR
B) really good, young, play a position of need and are on short term cap flexible deals.

Because at the end of the day, Giannis will want to go where he can WIN. That means there needs to be solid supporting cast in place. Not just in terms of the quality of players, but the lengths of the contract. As we know, the longer your core is locked in together, the longer your window is.

So what we should be doing instead of clearing cap and praying that Giannis leads us to the promise land, is creating a place he wants to be. So we shouldn't be scared of long term deals...so long as the guys we're locking in are young, good and at a good price.

If Giannis REALLY wants to be in Toronto, the Bucks can do much worse than Siakam in a S&T

[douggood]

A sign and trade for Giannis will only happen if he chooses to go to a team that does not have the cap space. As was the case with the Nets: their intent on signing Durant, Irving, and Jordan would have them over the threshold. The Rozier-Kemba dual sign-and-trade was, in reality, a harmless gesture by Boston. They would've landed Kemba anyway, and signed-and-traded a free agent they never wanted.

The Raptors will have cap space.

If you're Masai on the phone with the Bucks front-office in the summer of 2021, being asked to consider a sign-and-trade that surrenders them Siakam because Giannis wants to play for your team, that is going to be a comically short and unproductive conversation.

Let's be real and practical here.

nets didnt do the S&T because they needed cap space, it was the warriors who wanted the sign and trade for russel, warriors gave up a protected 1st round pick to the nets to do the trade.

same with the celtics, they didnt need to do the sign the trade, it was the hornets who needed the sign and trade to get rozier, they gave up 1 or 2 second round picks to the celtics.

[bballsparkin]

It starts with Herro and a 1st.

So then, no trade.

Id do that in a second

As would I. But why would Miami? Lowry aint getting any younger.

[fbalmeida]

A sign and trade for Giannis will only happen if he chooses to go to a team that does not have the cap space. As was the case with the Nets: their intent on signing Durant, Irving, and Jordan would have them over the threshold. The Rozier-Kemba dual sign-and-trade was, in reality, a harmless gesture by Boston. They would've landed Kemba anyway, and signed-and-traded a free agent they never wanted.

The Raptors will have cap space.

If you're Masai on the phone with the Bucks front-office in the summer of 2021, being asked to consider a sign-and-trade that surrenders them Siakam because Giannis wants to play for your team, that is going to be a comically short and unproductive conversation.

Let's be real and practical here.

True but I think this thought process doesn't take into account the other very real scenario - what if Giannis doesn't choose us?

There will be no shortage of teams clearing space for Giannis. What we really don't want to do is find ourselves in a place where we're declining trades for useful players, dumping quality guys for capspace and then he doesn't come.

So if I were Masai, I would be hitting the trade market hard for quality guys that are either:

A) really good, young, play a position of need and can be had cheaply/on fair and reasonable long term deals
AND/OR
B) really good, young, play a position of need and are on short term cap flexible deals.

Because at the end of the day, Giannis will want to go where he can WIN. That means there needs to be solid supporting cast in place. Not just in terms of the quality of players, but the lengths of the contract. As we know, the longer your core is locked in together, the longer your window is.

So what we should be doing instead of clearing cap and praying that Giannis leads us to the promise land, is creating a place he wants to be. So we shouldn't be scared of long term deals...so long as the guys we're locking in are young, good and at a good price.

If Giannis REALLY wants to be in Toronto, the Bucks can do much worse than Siakam in a S&T

If and when Giannis sits across from a desk with Masai, the pitch is to be the frontman of a team with Siakam Fred, OG, Davis, a nice big we're likely acquiring this year (hoping for Kleber) a deep bench, a brilliant coach, and the most passionate fanbase in the NBA.

[fbalmeida]

A sign and trade for Giannis will only happen if he chooses to go to a team that does not have the cap space. As was the case with the Nets: their intent on signing Durant, Irving, and Jordan would have them over the threshold. The Rozier-Kemba dual sign-and-trade was, in reality, a harmless gesture by Boston. They would've landed Kemba anyway, and signed-and-traded a free agent they never wanted.

The Raptors will have cap space.

If you're Masai on the phone with the Bucks front-office in the summer of 2021, being asked to consider a sign-and-trade that surrenders them Siakam because Giannis wants to play for your team, that is going to be a comically short and unproductive conversation.

Let's be real and practical here.

nets didnt do the S&T because they needed cap space, it was the warriors who wanted the sign and trade for russel, warriors gave up a protected 1st round pick to the nets to do the trade.

same with the celtics, they didnt need to do the sign the trade, it was the hornets who needed the sign and trade to get rozier, they gave up 1 or 2 second round picks to the celtics.

From what I've read, the Nets needed to dump about 5-10 M in salary to sign Durant, Irving, and Jordan. They were seeking a deal for D-Lo already when Bob Myers called. Myers himself has stated that it was Durant himself that insisted on the 1st round pick.

[Rapsfan07]

A sign and trade for Giannis will only happen if he chooses to go to a team that does not have the cap space. As was the case with the Nets: their intent on signing Durant, Irving, and Jordan would have them over the threshold. The Rozier-Kemba dual sign-and-trade was, in reality, a harmless gesture by Boston. They would've landed Kemba anyway, and signed-and-traded a free agent they never wanted.

The Raptors will have cap space.

If you're Masai on the phone with the Bucks front-office in the summer of 2021, being asked to consider a sign-and-trade that surrenders them Siakam because Giannis wants to play for your team, that is going to be a comically short and unproductive conversation.

Let's be real and practical here.

True but I think this thought process doesn't take into account the other very real scenario - what if Giannis doesn't choose us?

There will be no shortage of teams clearing space for Giannis. What we really don't want to do is find ourselves in a place where we're declining trades for useful players, dumping quality guys for capspace and then he doesn't come.

So if I were Masai, I would be hitting the trade market hard for quality guys that are either:

A) really good, young, play a position of need and can be had cheaply/on fair and reasonable long term deals
AND/OR
B) really good, young, play a position of need and are on short term cap flexible deals.

Because at the end of the day, Giannis will want to go where he can WIN. That means there needs to be solid supporting cast in place. Not just in terms of the quality of players, but the lengths of the contract. As we know, the longer your core is locked in together, the longer your window is.

So what we should be doing instead of clearing cap and praying that Giannis leads us to the promise land, is creating a place he wants to be. So we shouldn't be scared of long term deals...so long as the guys we're locking in are young, good and at a good price.

If Giannis REALLY wants to be in Toronto, the Bucks can do much worse than Siakam in a S&T

If and when Giannis sits across from a desk with Masai, the pitch is to be the frontman of a team with Siakam Fred, OG, Davis, a nice big we're likely acquiring this year (hoping for Kleber) a deep bench, a brilliant coach, and the most passionate fanbase in the NBA.

Well if that's all we have to offer, prepare to be disappointed. Miami has two all-stars, a ton of quality youth, just as passionate a fanbase and a much better quality of life to offer.

A team of Siakam (who laid an egg in the playoffs), Fred, a role player in OG, a sophmore in Davis and Max Kleber doesn't stand a chance.

We need to do better than that just to attract him, much less to win a chip.

[douggood]

A sign and trade for Giannis will only happen if he chooses to go to a team that does not have the cap space. As was the case with the Nets: their intent on signing Durant, Irving, and Jordan would have them over the threshold. The Rozier-Kemba dual sign-and-trade was, in reality, a harmless gesture by Boston. They would've landed Kemba anyway, and signed-and-traded a free agent they never wanted.

The Raptors will have cap space.

If you're Masai on the phone with the Bucks front-office in the summer of 2021, being asked to consider a sign-and-trade that surrenders them Siakam because Giannis wants to play for your team, that is going to be a comically short and unproductive conversation.

Let's be real and practical here.

nets didnt do the S&T because they needed cap space, it was the warriors who wanted the sign and trade for russel, warriors gave up a protected 1st round pick to the nets to do the trade.

same with the celtics, they didnt need to do the sign the trade, it was the hornets who needed the sign and trade to get rozier, they gave up 1 or 2 second round picks to the celtics.

From what I've read, the Nets needed to dump about 5-10 M in salary to sign Durant, Irving, and Jordan. They were seeking a deal for D-Lo already when Bob Myers called. Myers himself has stated that it was Durant himself that insisted on the 1st round pick.

Dealing russell didn't create more cap space for nets he was a free agent already.

They needed to create some more money but they did that by Irving and durant taking a little less. Both took about 5 mil less per year to fit jordan 10mil salary.

https://clutchpoints.com/nets-news-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving-take-less-than-max-to-allow-deandre-jordans-10-million-salary/

[fbalmeida]

I stand corrected on the details but not on the concept: D-Lo was a free agent and GSW could've signed him anyway with a reasonable effort. Shabazz Napier and Treveon Graham were in fact the salary dump that enabled the signing of Jordan and re-signing of Claxton. So basically, Free Agency being what it is, Myers sent a draft pick to fast track D-Lo. This sign-and-trade was a theatrical piece about saving face.

The sign and trade was not a decisive factor in Durant's ultimate destination. He didn't choose the Nets because he or Myers felt they had the best assets for a sign-and-trade. Durant wanted to, and I quote, live in NY, play basketball, and go home after the game. Giannis wants to win a championship.

So my angle here is that the idea that we should stock our team with "sign-and-tradable" assets that the Bucks would agree to (and some are here arguing that that would include Horford for some inscrutable reason), is absolutely preposterous.

The quality of available trade assets Giannis' suitors will have for his current team, will have zero bearing on where he wants to go, barring a mid-season meltdown and trade request.

[OAKLEY_2]

True but I think this thought process doesn't take into account the other very real scenario - what if Giannis doesn't choose us?

There will be no shortage of teams clearing space for Giannis. What we really don't want to do is find ourselves in a place where we're declining trades for useful players, dumping quality guys for capspace and then he doesn't come.

So if I were Masai, I would be hitting the trade market hard for quality guys that are either:

A) really good, young, play a position of need and can be had cheaply/on fair and reasonable long term deals
AND/OR
B) really good, young, play a position of need and are on short term cap flexible deals.

Because at the end of the day, Giannis will want to go where he can WIN. That means there needs to be solid supporting cast in place. Not just in terms of the quality of players, but the lengths of the contract. As we know, the longer your core is locked in together, the longer your window is.

So what we should be doing instead of clearing cap and praying that Giannis leads us to the promise land, is creating a place he wants to be. So we shouldn't be scared of long term deals...so long as the guys we're locking in are young, good and at a good price.

If Giannis REALLY wants to be in Toronto, the Bucks can do much worse than Siakam in a S&T

If and when Giannis sits across from a desk with Masai, the pitch is to be the frontman of a team with Siakam Fred, OG, Davis, a nice big we're likely acquiring this year (hoping for Kleber) a deep bench, a brilliant coach, and the most passionate fanbase in the NBA.

Well if that's all we have to offer, prepare to be disappointed. Miami has two all-stars, a ton of quality youth, just as passionate a fanbase and a much better quality of life to offer.

A team of Siakam (who laid an egg in the playoffs), Fred, a role player in OG, a sophmore in Davis and Max Kleber doesn't stand a chance.

We need to do better than that just to attract him, much less to win a chip.

We have two allstars. A player Giannis is familiar with in Siakam and he doesn't need Raptor fan self trollers to convince him to come or not. We also have a player in OG whose ceiling is just as bright as Bam. So to me you must really love Spoelstra to be making those kinds of wild claims. Also if you want to judge us on the shtty bubble performances be my guest but it was barely a lockout calibre season and post season. Next you will be saying we have a flawed core.

[OAKLEY_2]

Role player in OG? G-------T--------F---------O!

[dalton749]

I stand corrected on the details but not on the concept: D-Lo was a free agent and GSW could've signed him anyway with a reasonable effort. Shabazz Napier and Treveon Graham were in fact the salary dump that enabled the signing of Jordan and re-signing of Claxton. So basically, Free Agency being what it is, Myers sent a draft pick to fast track D-Lo. This sign-and-trade was a theatrical piece about saving face.

The sign and trade was not a decisive factor in Durant's ultimate destination. He didn't choose the Nets because he or Myers felt they had the best assets for a sign-and-trade. Durant wanted to, and I quote, live in NY, play basketball, and go home after the game. Giannis wants to win a championship.

So my angle here is that the idea that we should stock our team with "sign-and-tradable" assets that the Bucks would agree to (and some are here arguing that that would include Horford for some inscrutable reason), is absolutely preposterous.

The quality of available trade assets Giannis' suitors will have for his current team, will have zero bearing on where he wants to go, barring a mid-season meltdown and trade request.

How are you still caught up on the the trade being relevant to the decision? If Giannis wants to come here, it doesn’t matter if we have space for two max free agents or are completely over the cap. The deal can get done. Milwaukee has no say in the trade because they’re losing him anyway, it’s just Masai picking up the phone and saying “take these guys back in a sign and trade deal or be left with nothing”. If they choose the nothing route, you ship some players off to teams with cap space for large TPEs and a pick or whatever because everyone has cap space, then you sign Giannis, then go out looking to use the TPE to reabsorb some talent afterwards.

Spending over the cap is pretty necessary in order to win a championship. We’ve seen multiple times now where these “super teams” come together by signing guys out right and then they don’t have the surrounding talent to win in year 1 because they can’t afford to bring anyone else in. For example, They are starting from a point of being able to spend 110 million on the roster when what I am proposing allows us to spend 130 million or more.

And if it fails, I’d rather have the talent already on the team and be at that 130 mil worth Of contracts then end up below the cap line because we swung and missed. That is a massive step backwards for this team and our chances of finding another move to pursue a championship in the coming years are significantly lessened.

[fbalmeida]

The idea someone was selling a few pages yonder was exactly that: that there will be a sign-and-trade arms race that the Bucks will ultimately decide and that the Raptors should prepare for.

If you agree that that's patently absurd, then you're pushing an open door with me.

[douggood]

I stand corrected on the details but not on the concept: D-Lo was a free agent and GSW could've signed him anyway with a reasonable effort. Shabazz Napier and Treveon Graham were in fact the salary dump that enabled the signing of Jordan and re-signing of Claxton. So basically, Free Agency being what it is, Myers sent a draft pick to fast track D-Lo. This sign-and-trade was a theatrical piece about saving face.

The sign and trade was not a decisive factor in Durant's ultimate destination. He didn't choose the Nets because he or Myers felt they had the best assets for a sign-and-trade. Durant wanted to, and I quote, live in NY, play basketball, and go home after the game. Giannis wants to win a championship.

So my angle here is that the idea that we should stock our team with "sign-and-tradable" assets that the Bucks would agree to (and some are here arguing that that would include Horford for some inscrutable reason), is absolutely preposterous.

The quality of available trade assets Giannis' suitors will have for his current team, will have zero bearing on where he wants to go, barring a mid-season meltdown and trade request.

gsw were over the cap, they couldn't have signed russell if they wanted, it had to be s&t.

and napier and graham were part of trade to make salaries work, durant max was more than ruseell. both filler were not guranteed, (except for 250k)

and the reason they had to dump graham/napier to twovlves(was to save the 250k cap room) they gave twolves some money to do it., and then dump iggy to memphis and gave up a 2024 first rounder plus 2 million dollars.

all because any s&t hard caps a team, and the warriors had to get under.

so all in all the s&t for russell essentially cost them iggy, 2024 1st, protected 2020 1st, couple million dollars cash, and getting hard capped. thus not using tax mle, etc, all they could sign were minimum players.

thats why they were so thin this year after all the injuries.

[LoveMyRaps]

Being reported ten teams are interested in Holiday.
Raptors have to be one of em...

[Zeno]

McCaw, Stanley, Dewan and #29 for Thaddeus Young and #44. Saves the cheap ass Bulls around 5 million. Thad has only 6 million guaranteed for next year so if we get Giannis he is a movable expiring. Would be an excellent option off the bench. Great upgrade on RHJ despite down year. Relationship with OG and TD. Moving down in draft allows for us to avoid Guaranteed money to rookie if additional space needed.

[DreamTeam09]

Sign Whiteside please

[OAKLEY_2]

What would James Johnson cost?

[OAKLEY_2]

DJ Wilson?