OT: Panic Buying. When Will it End?

[seanbig]

honestly, forget about the trial meds

you are better off learning how to put on a mask or better yet get fit tested for an n95 once the supply chain is done.

It doesn't matter if it's first world or third world. if you get put on a ventilator chances are 7 out of 10 you will die in 2 weeks, if you live it will be after 3 weeks.

What I am pissed off at is that in Wuhan the staff there initially the same PPE problems as in the rest of the world, not enough stock, people had to reuse stuff, get infected, sick and then staff died.

Then they totally changed and got the staff to wear the radiation/hazmat suits you see them doing and since then no one has gotten infected in Wuhan since Feb 2020.

Same thing happened in Italy...staff ran out of PPE, got infected, some died, so now they use multiple layers of protection.

So what does Canada and USA do. Oh, that's CHINA, Oh, that's Italy, Oh, that's Spain....oh that's NEW YORK

Last week we couldn't walk around with a mask in the hospital unless we were with a covid 19 pt.

Now this week we are told to wear goggles and surgical mask for all patient areas....

then next week when we get more staff sick infected and dying like in Wuhan, then it will be the Hazmat suits like in Wuhan and Italy and...Later New York.

Its is the same damn virus...every dang country has gone through the same mistakes...either you test like crazy, lockdown like crazy
and protect your damn frontline staff like crazy...or suffer the consequences....

And honestly even in wuhan not everyone had the n95 mask but they sure as heck protected their head

Watch on YouTube

this is usa canada

Watch on YouTube

china---go to the 4:00 mark you will notice that he has surgical mask but a lot of head protection.

[6ixSideSniper]

Made a trip out to Costco this morning, everthing was in stock but Clorox wipes. Very few items with purchase limits. Dog food was limited to 1 bag per customer interestingly enough.

I havent been to Costco for awhile now, it was nice to see the general public take the virus seriously. Everyone was wearing gloves, half were wearing masks, and everyone stayed pretty far from one another.

Costco had staff going around and sanitizing everything, a staff would wipe the cashier-shield between every customer. Store policies seemed solid, but it seems alot of the staff were "normalized" (possibly due to still working regularly and not being sick yet), and many werent wearing gloves, none wore any form of facial protection.

[yellowknifer]

Anti-maskers take an all-or-nothing approach to this debate. If masks don't provide 100% protection to 100% of the population, they are useless.

I spoke to a hockey buddy...who happens to be an emergency room doctor here in the GTA. he is stunned by how many people believe that masks don’t work. He went on to say that they aren’t 100% effective....but they are particularly effective in “blocking” larger droplets

I really don’t get the anti mask people.

I get that there is a shortage .... and the doctors need them....but that’s a separate point

You realize those medical case studies are performed by Doctors and medical researchers right? At least as qualified or likely more qualified than your friend

You realize no one said they are not effective.

You are arguing a point that no one has made. We are talking about benefit of masking the general population. Based on MEDICAL CASE STUDIES, there is very little if any benefit (and in some cases worse). The argument was if it is worth the resources to do it.

They are very effective at stopping droplets from EXITING a persons mouth, not from getting in. That is what they are meant for. High risk people like HCW that are in close contact with these people wear them mainly to protect patients and each other. No one said it was not effective for sick people, HCW, or people in contact with at risk people.

Healthy people are talking about wearing them to prevent getting the virus and acting like it is significantly decreases there chances. A PRO mask study showed only a 6% effectiveness in reducing spread if 50% of people wear a mask 100% correct (no contamination, no increased face touching, nothing, even though that is not reality).

They do not stop droplets that are suspended in the air from entering through your eyes or getting on your body and IN CLINICAL STUDIES people are more likely to touch there face, which is can be worse than the protection it gives you. They help stop airborne droplets from getting into your mouth if worn correctly

AGAIN - wearing it correctly and with eye protection is of great benefit. Wearing by itself correctly is somewhat beneficial. Wearing it incorrectly which is happening often, is likely doing nothing for you and might be worse

The info I posted comes from an MIT trained bio engineer who specializes in viruses. Those studies you linked cant take into account the variables mentioned. I will look more closely at them later.

[Kabookalu]

Made a trip out to Costco this morning, everthing was in stock but Clorox wipes. Very few items with purchase limits. Dog food was limited to 1 bag per customer interestingly enough.

I havent been to Costco for awhile now, it was nice to see the general public take the virus seriously. Everyone was wearing gloves, half were wearing masks, and everyone stayed pretty far from one another.

Costco had staff going around and sanitizing everything, a staff would wipe the cashier-shield between every customer. Store policies seemed solid, but it seems alot of the staff were "normalized" (possibly due to still working regularly and not being sick yet), and many werent wearing gloves, none wore any form of facial protection.

I went out to Target a week ago with gloves and a mask on. My boss and I were the only ones wearing them, and the store was somewhat busy. No one adhered to social distancing suggestions. I was looking for food, and an old guy was right beside me checking something out that was uncomfortably close even in normal times. And it's not like these people are ignorant, because the entire store was littered with signs urging people to social distance. There were stickers on the ground at the cashiers saying "wait here" that were 6ft away from each other. People weren't following it anyways.

Basically Americans are stupid. If this is type of behavior being mimicked across the country might as well consider this NBA season cancelled.

[CantStopTheRock]

I spoke to a hockey buddy...who happens to be an emergency room doctor here in the GTA. he is stunned by how many people believe that masks don’t work. He went on to say that they aren’t 100% effective....but they are particularly effective in “blocking” larger droplets

I really don’t get the anti mask people.

I get that there is a shortage .... and the doctors need them....but that’s a separate point

You realize those medical case studies are performed by Doctors and medical researchers right? At least as qualified or likely more qualified than your friend

You realize no one said they are not effective.

You are arguing a point that no one has made. We are talking about benefit of masking the general population. Based on MEDICAL CASE STUDIES, there is very little if any benefit (and in some cases worse). The argument was if it is worth the resources to do it.

They are very effective at stopping droplets from EXITING a persons mouth, not from getting in. That is what they are meant for. High risk people like HCW that are in close contact with these people wear them mainly to protect patients and each other. No one said it was not effective for sick people, HCW, or people in contact with at risk people.

Healthy people are talking about wearing them to prevent getting the virus and acting like it is significantly decreases there chances. A PRO mask study showed only a 6% effectiveness in reducing spread if 50% of people wear a mask 100% correct (no contamination, no increased face touching, nothing, even though that is not reality).

They do not stop droplets that are suspended in the air from entering through your eyes or getting on your body and IN CLINICAL STUDIES people are more likely to touch there face, which is can be worse than the protection it gives you. They help stop airborne droplets from getting into your mouth if worn correctly

AGAIN - wearing it correctly and with eye protection is of great benefit. Wearing by itself correctly is somewhat beneficial. Wearing it incorrectly which is happening often, is likely doing nothing for you and might be worse

The info I posted comes from an MIT trained bio engineer who specializes in viruses. Those studies you linked cant take into account the variables mentioned. I will look more closely at them later.

Sorry, what info that you posted are you speaking of?

Pretty much all of the medical studies I posted are real clinical care studies (real world) so I'm not sure how a variable is missing. Some that Courtside posted were mathematical estimates or based on lab results but those were all PRO mask, some were missing variables, which would make the PRO numbers worse.

[Raps in 4]

Read on Twitter

[6ixSideSniper]

Read on Twitter

mAsKs DoNt WoRk, U tOuCh YoUr FaCe!!!!

[jrask]

Read on Twitter

This is great news if true

Everyone should be wearing a mask

I'm hoping Canada makes the same recommendation

[CantStopTheRock]

Read on Twitter

mAsKs DoNt WoRk, U tOuCh YoUr FaCe!!!!

Yeah close to what I said.

I have already stated multiple times that it could get to a critical point that there are enough people that are asymptomatic that it would be better to mask everyone to prevent people from SPREADING it. So they are doing exactly as what I had wrote.

People are clearing not understanding/reading some key points and just summarize dozens of posts and isolate it to only one sentence - "mAsKs DoNt WoRk". If you don't want to bother reading what I wrote than don't post something that is clearly directed at me.

If there are 50 people sick in Canada - everyone wearing one is not effective. Using millions and millions of masks up is sort of a waste. The higher that number gets the more worth while and effective it would become

Like I said above and in other posts there is a number that makes it worthwhile to use up these resources

[CantStopTheRock]

honestly, forget about the trial meds

you are better off learning how to put on a mask or better yet get fit tested for an n95 once the supply chain is done.

It doesn't matter if it's first world or third world. if you get put on a ventilator chances are 7 out of 10 you will die in 2 weeks, if you live it will be after 3 weeks.

What I am pissed off at is that in Wuhan the staff there initially the same PPE problems as in the rest of the world, not enough stock, people had to reuse stuff, get infected, sick and then staff died.

Then they totally changed and got the staff to wear the radiation/hazmat suits you see them doing and since then no one has gotten infected in Wuhan since Feb 2020.

Same thing happened in Italy...staff ran out of PPE, got infected, some died, so now they use multiple layers of protection.

So what does Canada and USA do. Oh, that's CHINA, Oh, that's Italy, Oh, that's Spain....oh that's NEW YORK

Last week we couldn't walk around with a mask in the hospital unless we were with a covid 19 pt.

Now this week we are told to wear goggles and surgical mask for all patient areas....

then next week when we get more staff sick infected and dying like in Wuhan, then it will be the Hazmat suits like in Wuhan and Italy and...Later New York.

Its is the same damn virus...every dang country has gone through the same mistakes...either you test like crazy, lockdown like crazy
and protect your damn frontline staff like crazy...or suffer the consequences....

And honestly even in wuhan not everyone had the n95 mask but they sure as heck protected their head

Watch on YouTube

this is usa canada

Watch on YouTube

china---go to the 4:00 mark you will notice that he has surgical mask but a lot of head protection.

Great video. I have taken so much flack for telling people to wear eye protection with masks to PREVENT getting the virus. Most people think it is not that important or regular eye glasses suffice.

I am guessing they are finding masks are not that effective at PREVENTING getting sick, which is not surprising

[Courtside]

honestly, forget about the trial meds

you are better off learning how to put on a mask or better yet get fit tested for an n95 once the supply chain is done.

It doesn't matter if it's first world or third world. if you get put on a ventilator chances are 7 out of 10 you will die in 2 weeks, if you live it will be after 3 weeks.

What I am pissed off at is that in Wuhan the staff there initially the same PPE problems as in the rest of the world, not enough stock, people had to reuse stuff, get infected, sick and then staff died.

Then they totally changed and got the staff to wear the radiation/hazmat suits you see them doing and since then no one has gotten infected in Wuhan since Feb 2020.

Same thing happened in Italy...staff ran out of PPE, got infected, some died, so now they use multiple layers of protection.

So what does Canada and USA do. Oh, that's CHINA, Oh, that's Italy, Oh, that's Spain....oh that's NEW YORK

Last week we couldn't walk around with a mask in the hospital unless we were with a covid 19 pt.

Now this week we are told to wear goggles and surgical mask for all patient areas....

then next week when we get more staff sick infected and dying like in Wuhan, then it will be the Hazmat suits like in Wuhan and Italy and...Later New York.

Its is the same damn virus...every dang country has gone through the same mistakes...either you test like crazy, lockdown like crazy
and protect your damn frontline staff like crazy...or suffer the consequences....

And honestly even in wuhan not everyone had the n95 mask but they sure as heck protected their head

Watch on YouTube

this is usa canada

Watch on YouTube

china---go to the 4:00 mark you will notice that he has surgical mask but a lot of head protection.

Great video. I have taken so much flack for telling people to wear eye protection with masks to PREVENT getting the virus. Most people think it is not that important or regular eye glasses suffice.

I am guessing they are finding masks are not that effective at PREVENTING getting sick, which is not surprising

Any available numbers that show the rates of infection through the different means? Ie: mouth, nose, and eyes?

Of course it *can* enter through the eyes, but I I suspect it happens with less frequency than nose and mouth inhalation or ingestion, which works to actively move the virus around. Eyes do not.

Further, the virus isn't going to spread from one person to another via the eyes unless we think people are going to start crying on each other? Glasses or goggles are one way protection only, while a mask offers two way protection (of varying levels, of course}

For the general population, it's definitely mask first, then eye protection way later. Not wearing eye protection doesn't make mask wearing a pointless effort.

[6ixSideSniper]

Read on Twitter

mAsKs DoNt WoRk, U tOuCh YoUr FaCe!!!!

Yeah close to what I said.

I have already stated multiple times that it could get to a critical point that there are enough people that are asymptomatic that it would be better to mask everyone to prevent people from SPREADING it. So they are doing exactly as what I had wrote.

People are clearing not understanding/reading some key points and just summarize dozens of posts and isolate it to only one sentence - "mAsKs DoNt WoRk". If you don't want to bother reading what I wrote than don't post something that is clearly directed at me.

If there are 50 people sick in Canada - everyone wearing one is not effective. Using millions and millions of masks up is sort of a waste. The higher that number gets the more worth while and effective it would become

Like I said above and in other posts there is a number that makes it worthwhile to use up these resources

How are you getting upset when you yourself have acknowledged i said a close summary to what youve been spewing?

You seem more butt-hurt about not being the one that is right more then anything.

Youre putting up strawman arguments now, so you can feel better and be right, after the CDC has announced they will make changes to their reccomendations.

[6ixSideSniper]

honestly, forget about the trial meds

you are better off learning how to put on a mask or better yet get fit tested for an n95 once the supply chain is done.

It doesn't matter if it's first world or third world. if you get put on a ventilator chances are 7 out of 10 you will die in 2 weeks, if you live it will be after 3 weeks.

What I am pissed off at is that in Wuhan the staff there initially the same PPE problems as in the rest of the world, not enough stock, people had to reuse stuff, get infected, sick and then staff died.

Then they totally changed and got the staff to wear the radiation/hazmat suits you see them doing and since then no one has gotten infected in Wuhan since Feb 2020.

Same thing happened in Italy...staff ran out of PPE, got infected, some died, so now they use multiple layers of protection.

So what does Canada and USA do. Oh, that's CHINA, Oh, that's Italy, Oh, that's Spain....oh that's NEW YORK

Last week we couldn't walk around with a mask in the hospital unless we were with a covid 19 pt.

Now this week we are told to wear goggles and surgical mask for all patient areas....

then next week when we get more staff sick infected and dying like in Wuhan, then it will be the Hazmat suits like in Wuhan and Italy and...Later New York.

Its is the same damn virus...every dang country has gone through the same mistakes...either you test like crazy, lockdown like crazy
and protect your damn frontline staff like crazy...or suffer the consequences....

And honestly even in wuhan not everyone had the n95 mask but they sure as heck protected their head

Watch on YouTube

this is usa canada

Watch on YouTube

china---go to the 4:00 mark you will notice that he has surgical mask but a lot of head protection.

Great video. I have taken so much flack for telling people to wear eye protection with masks to PREVENT getting the virus. Most people think it is not that important or regular eye glasses suffice.

I am guessing they are finding masks are not that effective at PREVENTING getting sick, which is not surprising

Show me ONE post of someone giving you flack for reccomending eyewear. Again nice strawman you built there.

[wayoftheroad]

Ok homies. I live in stouffville, didnt hoard anything and now wanna where can I buy some toilet paper? Is everywhere really run out or sold out?

[CantStopTheRock]

honestly, forget about the trial meds

you are better off learning how to put on a mask or better yet get fit tested for an n95 once the supply chain is done.

It doesn't matter if it's first world or third world. if you get put on a ventilator chances are 7 out of 10 you will die in 2 weeks, if you live it will be after 3 weeks.

What I am pissed off at is that in Wuhan the staff there initially the same PPE problems as in the rest of the world, not enough stock, people had to reuse stuff, get infected, sick and then staff died.

Then they totally changed and got the staff to wear the radiation/hazmat suits you see them doing and since then no one has gotten infected in Wuhan since Feb 2020.

Same thing happened in Italy...staff ran out of PPE, got infected, some died, so now they use multiple layers of protection.

So what does Canada and USA do. Oh, that's CHINA, Oh, that's Italy, Oh, that's Spain....oh that's NEW YORK

Last week we couldn't walk around with a mask in the hospital unless we were with a covid 19 pt.

Now this week we are told to wear goggles and surgical mask for all patient areas....

then next week when we get more staff sick infected and dying like in Wuhan, then it will be the Hazmat suits like in Wuhan and Italy and...Later New York.

Its is the same damn virus...every dang country has gone through the same mistakes...either you test like crazy, lockdown like crazy
and protect your damn frontline staff like crazy...or suffer the consequences....

And honestly even in wuhan not everyone had the n95 mask but they sure as heck protected their head

Watch on YouTube

this is usa canada

Watch on YouTube

china---go to the 4:00 mark you will notice that he has surgical mask but a lot of head protection.

Great video. I have taken so much flack for telling people to wear eye protection with masks to PREVENT getting the virus. Most people think it is not that important or regular eye glasses suffice.

I am guessing they are finding masks are not that effective at PREVENTING getting sick, which is not surprising

Any available numbers that show the rates of infection through the different means? Ie: mouth, nose, and eyes?

Of course it *can* enter through the eyes, but I I suspect it happens with less frequency than nose and mouth inhalation or ingestion, which works to actively move the virus around. Eyes do not.

Further, the virus isn't going to spread from one person to another via the eyes unless we think people are going to start crying on each other? Glasses or goggles are one way protection only, while a mask offers two way protection (of varying levels, of course}

For the general population, it's definitely mask first, then eye protection way later. Not wearing eye protection doesn't make mask wearing a pointless effort.

I have only seen studies on mask vs mask, eye ware, gloves, and gowns. Nothing to suggest specific rates of transmission per unit.

But the argument was always about a healthy person from preventing getting the virus. So it was always about one way transmission. What positive % a HEALTHY person would gain from wearing a mask in public. It then got into masking the public - in which case at that point the overwhelming majority are still healthy and it was not worth it to mask everyone. I said it would/could reach a point where there are enough asymptomatic people out there that everyone wearing masks would be worthwhile.

I would agree with you about frequency of transmission based on correct usage, although I am not sure how a mask stops people from eating, like the instance in the park where someone was scarfing down food that had been passed around a big group. But the case studies show that proper mask usage is not always happening in a clinical setting (with training, familiarity) let alone public use.

"If the respirator's seal leaks, contaminated air will be pulled into the facepiece and can be breathed in," OSHA writes on its website. "Therefore, anything that interferes with the respirator seal is not permitted when using this type of respirator. This could include facial hair, earrings, head scarves, wigs, and facial piercings."

I saw 3 people at a hardware store today with a full beard (duck dynasty style) and wearing a n95 mask.

Like I said my issue is with people wearing it wrong and how it is not very effective in that setting and then applying that to public use when the vast majority are still healthy. There is definitely a point where it is effective for everyone to wear one and I would not have any issues if people wore them correctly (although not in the situation we are in with limited supply)

[Courtside]

Great video. I have taken so much flack for telling people to wear eye protection with masks to PREVENT getting the virus. Most people think it is not that important or regular eye glasses suffice.

I am guessing they are finding masks are not that effective at PREVENTING getting sick, which is not surprising

Any available numbers that show the rates of infection through the different means? Ie: mouth, nose, and eyes?

Of course it *can* enter through the eyes, but I I suspect it happens with less frequency than nose and mouth inhalation or ingestion, which works to actively move the virus around. Eyes do not.

Further, the virus isn't going to spread from one person to another via the eyes unless we think people are going to start crying on each other? Glasses or goggles are one way protection only, while a mask offers two way protection (of varying levels, of course}

For the general population, it's definitely mask first, then eye protection way later. Not wearing eye protection doesn't make mask wearing a pointless effort.

I have only seen studies on mask vs mask, eye ware, gloves, and gowns. Nothing to suggest specific rates of transmission per unit.

But the argument was always about a healthy person from preventing getting the virus. So it was always about one way transmission. What positive % a HEALTHY person would gain from wearing a mask in public. It then got into masking the public - in which case at that point the overwhelming majority are still healthy and it was not worth it to mask everyone. I said it would/could reach a point where there are enough asymptomatic people out there that everyone wearing masks would be worthwhile.

I would agree with you about frequency of transmission based on correct usage, although I am not sure how a mask stops people from eating, like the instance in the park where someone was scarfing down food that had been passed around a big group. But the case studies show that proper mask usage is not always happening in a clinical setting (with training, familiarity) let alone public use.

"If the respirator's seal leaks, contaminated air will be pulled into the facepiece and can be breathed in," OSHA writes on its website. "Therefore, anything that interferes with the respirator seal is not permitted when using this type of respirator. This could include facial hair, earrings, head scarves, wigs, and facial piercings."

I saw 3 people at a hardware store today with a full beard (duck dynasty style) and wearing a n95 mask.

Like I said my issue is with people wearing it wrong and how it is not very effective in that setting and then applying that to public use when the vast majority are still healthy. There is definitely a point where it is effective for everyone to wear one and I would not have any issues if people wore them correctly (although not in the situation we are in with limited supply)

OK, you're just grasping for straws at this point.

The argument was NEVER only about protecting the wearer. It was NEVER about people in the public wearing N95s. It was NEVER about 100% of people wearing them right. It was NEVER about clinical use. And it was NEVER about being a fully protective measure at all times and in all places. Like of course people have to eat, so WTF kind of argument is that even to make at this point after so many pages.

You keep saying that other people are missing points you're making but they're not. You just keep making the same points over and over in a different way thinking it's helping your case, but each repeated point gets more ignored because it's a waste of time to belabour the same things when a lot of them (like the points above) are not even what the whole argument is about. Don't get made when people don't wngage with strawmen. At this point, you're the one that is trying to talk over everyone, but making weaker and weaker points each time.

[jrask]

Any available numbers that show the rates of infection through the different means? Ie: mouth, nose, and eyes?

Of course it *can* enter through the eyes, but I I suspect it happens with less frequency than nose and mouth inhalation or ingestion, which works to actively move the virus around. Eyes do not.

Further, the virus isn't going to spread from one person to another via the eyes unless we think people are going to start crying on each other? Glasses or goggles are one way protection only, while a mask offers two way protection (of varying levels, of course}

For the general population, it's definitely mask first, then eye protection way later. Not wearing eye protection doesn't make mask wearing a pointless effort.

I have only seen studies on mask vs mask, eye ware, gloves, and gowns. Nothing to suggest specific rates of transmission per unit.

But the argument was always about a healthy person from preventing getting the virus. So it was always about one way transmission. What positive % a HEALTHY person would gain from wearing a mask in public. It then got into masking the public - in which case at that point the overwhelming majority are still healthy and it was not worth it to mask everyone. I said it would/could reach a point where there are enough asymptomatic people out there that everyone wearing masks would be worthwhile.

I would agree with you about frequency of transmission based on correct usage, although I am not sure how a mask stops people from eating, like the instance in the park where someone was scarfing down food that had been passed around a big group. But the case studies show that proper mask usage is not always happening in a clinical setting (with training, familiarity) let alone public use.

"If the respirator's seal leaks, contaminated air will be pulled into the facepiece and can be breathed in," OSHA writes on its website. "Therefore, anything that interferes with the respirator seal is not permitted when using this type of respirator. This could include facial hair, earrings, head scarves, wigs, and facial piercings."

I saw 3 people at a hardware store today with a full beard (duck dynasty style) and wearing a n95 mask.

Like I said my issue is with people wearing it wrong and how it is not very effective in that setting and then applying that to public use when the vast majority are still healthy. There is definitely a point where it is effective for everyone to wear one and I would not have any issues if people wore them correctly (although not in the situation we are in with limited supply)

OK, you're just grasping for straws at this point.

The argument was NEVER only about protecting the wearer. It was NEVER about people in the public wearing N95s. It was NEVER about 100% of people wearing them right. It was NEVER about clinical use. And it was NEVER about being a fully protective measure at all times and in all places. Like of course people have to eat, so WTF kind of argument is that even to make at this point after so many pages.

You keep saying that other people are missing points you're making but they're not. You just keep making the same points over and over in a different way thinking it's helping your case, but each repeated point gets more ignored because it's a waste of time to belabour the same things when a lot of them (like the points above) are not even what the whole argument is about. Don't get made when people don't wngage with strawmen. At this point, you're the one that is trying to talk over everyone, but making weaker and weaker points each time.

Just stop engaging with this dude

I don’t even think he knows what he’s arguing for anymore. Just talking in circles.....trying to save-face at any cost

[CantStopTheRock]

I have only seen studies on mask vs mask, eye ware, gloves, and gowns. Nothing to suggest specific rates of transmission per unit.

But the argument was always about a healthy person from preventing getting the virus. So it was always about one way transmission. What positive % a HEALTHY person would gain from wearing a mask in public. It then got into masking the public - in which case at that point the overwhelming majority are still healthy and it was not worth it to mask everyone. I said it would/could reach a point where there are enough asymptomatic people out there that everyone wearing masks would be worthwhile.

I would agree with you about frequency of transmission based on correct usage, although I am not sure how a mask stops people from eating, like the instance in the park where someone was scarfing down food that had been passed around a big group. But the case studies show that proper mask usage is not always happening in a clinical setting (with training, familiarity) let alone public use.

"If the respirator's seal leaks, contaminated air will be pulled into the facepiece and can be breathed in," OSHA writes on its website. "Therefore, anything that interferes with the respirator seal is not permitted when using this type of respirator. This could include facial hair, earrings, head scarves, wigs, and facial piercings."

I saw 3 people at a hardware store today with a full beard (duck dynasty style) and wearing a n95 mask.

Like I said my issue is with people wearing it wrong and how it is not very effective in that setting and then applying that to public use when the vast majority are still healthy. There is definitely a point where it is effective for everyone to wear one and I would not have any issues if people wore them correctly (although not in the situation we are in with limited supply)

OK, you're just grasping for straws at this point.

The argument was NEVER only about protecting the wearer. It was NEVER about people in the public wearing N95s. It was NEVER about 100% of people wearing them right. It was NEVER about clinical use. And it was NEVER about being a fully protective measure at all times and in all places. Like of course people have to eat, so WTF kind of argument is that even to make at this point after so many pages.

You keep saying that other people are missing points you're making but they're not. You just keep making the same points over and over in a different way thinking it's helping your case, but each repeated point gets more ignored because it's a waste of time to belabour the same things when a lot of them (like the points above) are not even what the whole argument is about. Don't get made when people don't wngage with strawmen. At this point, you're the one that is trying to talk over everyone, but making weaker and weaker points each time.

Just stop engaging with this dude

I don’t even think he knows what he’s arguing for anymore. Just talking in circles.....trying to save-face at any cost

Really? You backed yourself in a corner because most of the stuff you claimed in this thread is wrong. And you have the nerve to say I am grasping at straws? Strawman argument? Do you even know what that means?

You claim about ease of mask use, like a watch - I posted clinical study showing nurses and doctors do the very thing you claim people do not and they are literally trained and used to masks. WRONG, yet now you complain about using clinical studies? But you can just THINK that is what happens, great argument - grasping at straws

You post a BS post about public purchase of masks do not effect hospital supply because the hospitals do not shop at Home Depot. Really? WRONG

You then post several articles - I read them all and most proved my point, they are not much if any benefit of a healthy person wearing a mask. One math theory suggest 50% of masks = 6% reduction VS NO MASKS. Literally no one made a claim about no masks, yet that is your remaining point - a straw man argument. LOL

You crapped on the CDC - their policy has never changed - so they are not just saying that now to keep supply. South Korea, Japan and Singapore also have the EXACT same guidelines - WRONG again

You then respond to a video in which I comment on eye wear in PREVENTING getting the virus. Literally capitalized it for you and you go on about two way transmission. WTF does that have to do with what I said, I was talking about one way. Indeed argued with me about goggles and made a comment of doctors only wearing masks and no goggles? And “WTF you think they(Doctors) are stupid”. That was directed at him and again you love strawman arguments.

To the rest of your post

My responses were about either the protection the HEALTHY wearer gets from a mask (when people were arguing how effective or protective it was for them) which was the start of the discussion when people were complaining the CDC,WHO, NHS were lying then masking the entire population (mostly in regards to spreading, which spreading can only happen by infecting HEALTHY people). I posted dozens of times specifically writing HEALTHY to make it clear in regards to people wearing masks and its effectiveness. I posted dozens of times (I think every time) masking sick and HCW came up. I ALWAYS SAID SICK, HCW NEEDED TO BE MASKED AND SPECIAL CASES - so what is left, healthy general population

N95 mask was about effectiveness in a clinic compared to a surgical mask in response to someone posting the amount of droplets the n95 masks stop in a lab test. This was to prove a lab test does not equal real world results. Also proved that wearing a mask was not as easy as wearing a watch, as a n95 mask did not perform better than a loose fitting surgical mask, because they noted face touching, mask moving, mask sealing, etc).

“It was never about 100% of people wearing them right” . Well if you don’t know how many people are wearing them correctly how can you claim they are effective in either mass or single use. Like how is that not important to find a baseline. If 5% of people wear them correctly, WTF would you mask everyone, ever. I stated dozens of times that there is minimal effect if wearing it incorrectly, but can be beneficial if worn correctly but eye wear should be worn for the greatest effect.

“It was never about clinical use” Well that is most of the data we can go off of. And people (like yourself) are claiming things that are not true even in a clinical setting where people are trained and are used to masks but they are okay to apply whatever they THINK MIGHT happen to the general public. Yeah that is a great line of thought.

No one said anything about fully protective. We were discussing effectiveness. You sorta have to figure out how effective something is to determine if it is worth doing. 1% effectiveness is worth millions and millions of masks? No, better off putting those resources to testing kits, etc. No one said it needed to be fully effective

You are the one that brought up ingestion so why are you writing like it is something I brought up

I keep bringing the same stuff up in different ways because I get multiple people quoting me and replying to separate things that I had already posted. Some have been responding as if they misinterpreted incorrectly or I worded it poorly so I would reply. Sorry that I reply to people on a message board to try to clarify or prove a point.

But you are right the countless joke posts about "anti mask" people are way more informative and way stronger points.

[BBallG]

Watch on YouTube

Informative video. Skip to 15:00 for the part about masks, which I completely agree with.

[steamed hams]

Ok homies. I live in stouffville, didnt hoard anything and now wanna where can I buy some toilet paper? Is everywhere really run out or sold out?

you can buy toilet paper pretty much anywhere, it's not really out of stock. It's usually limit one per customer though