Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Fairview4Life]

Lolol. Coca Cola! So just to be clear, the virus DOES exist, but not in people. It is being introduced as a foreign element by every single lab that has isolated it, and every single person who has been tested for it doesn't actually have it. Is that what you're going with now?

[dohboy_24]

OMG... so just to be clear.... diabetes does exist, but not in sugary beverages. You're 100% okay with a lab tech adding genetic material to a blood, urine, or saliva sample before it's tested. Is that what you're okay with now?

[Fairview4Life]

OMG... so just to be clear.... you're 100% okay with a lab tech adding genetic material to a blood, urine, or saliva sample before it's tested. Is that what you're okay with now?

I am ok with a lab tech culturing and sequencing someone's blood or whatever, yes. And running it through a PCR. Why wouldn't I be? You still haven't actually said what you think is wrong with that process and if it is a problem, what do you think is actually happening in the world right now. Like, do you think people are actually sick? What are they testing positive for?

She didn't want any sample run through a PCR. Why? To get 0 results, because asking for that is very stupid.

[dohboy_24]

I am ok with a lab tech culturing and sequencing someone's blood or whatever, yes. And running it through a PCR. Why wouldn't I be?

Are foreign genetic materials added to those blood samples as they are being cultured and sequenced? Are foreign genetic materials added to those blood samples as they are being copied using PCR methods?

You still haven't actually said what you think is wrong with that process and if it is a problem, what do you think is actually happening in the world right now. Like, do you think people are actually sick? What are they testing positive for?

Sorry... the answers to those questions are above my pay-grade, but there are more holes in the official/popular/generally accepted narrative than a slice of Swiss cheese.

[Fairview4Life]

lolololol. You are so full of ****.

[Bomboclot416]

Anyone talking about the mortality rate of this disease is missing the forest for the trees.

I wish I had the article handy but off the top of my head:

For each covid death there are:
-2 strokes
-10 people with permanent neurological issues
-20 people with permanent heart issues
(about 15 other conditions I can't recall)

Reducing this down to a mortality rate is incredibly ignorant.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-term-health-effects-covid-19
https://globalnews.ca/news/7158513/covid-19-coronavirus-patients-long-term-health-impacts/
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/what-are-the-potential-long-term-effects-of-having-covid-19-1.4985944

I find it ignorant that you mention things like strokes, neurological issues and heart issues but make no mention that this is occuring to people that already have significant comorbidities including but not limited to diabetes, heart disease which could be the real factor behind these things happening.

Mortalitly rate is important because this is the pretext that the world is being shut down on. Not for risk of stroke, but deaths. Infact most of the posts here talk about how the US death amount is going to eclipse 200,000 but make no mention that relative to the likely positive population the number is small. Recent studies have said that positive numbers could be 24 times higher then what is reported. The current death rate in the US is around 3%. If the number was only 3 times higher versus 24 mortality would be 1%. Come on.

[mtcan]

Anyone talking about the mortality rate of this disease is missing the forest for the trees.

I wish I had the article handy but off the top of my head:

For each covid death there are:
-2 strokes
-10 people with permanent neurological issues
-20 people with permanent heart issues
(about 15 other conditions I can't recall)

Reducing this down to a mortality rate is incredibly ignorant.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-term-health-effects-covid-19
https://globalnews.ca/news/7158513/covid-19-coronavirus-patients-long-term-health-impacts/
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/what-are-the-potential-long-term-effects-of-having-covid-19-1.4985944

I find it ignorant that you mention things like strokes, neurological issues and heart issues but make no mention that this is occuring to people that already have significant comorbidities including but not limited to diabetes, heart disease which could be the real factor behind these things happening.

Mortalitly rate is important because this is the pretext that the world is being shut down on. Not for risk of stroke, but deaths. Infact most of the posts here talk about how the US death amount is going to eclipse 200,000 but make no mention that relative to the likely positive population the number is small. Recent studies have said that positive numbers could be 24 times higher then what is reported. The current death rate in the US is around 3%. If the number was only 3 times higher versus 24 mortality would be 1%. Come on.

Yes there are a lot of patients with comorbid conditions that got a really sick but there are also those completely healthy individuals that also ended up on a ventilator in ICU or dying. You don't know how the virus will hit you. That is the real concern. This isn't like a cold in which you know you will get through. Common colds and flus don't cause ICUs to be overwhelmed by demand and capacity.

Deaths are still deaths. I'm not sure what losing a loved one means to you...150000ish American families have lost someone in the last 4 months. Any attempt to downplay the significance of the virus does nothing to comfort those 150000ish families. It is actually a very callous way of diminishing the worth of a human life that would probably still be here if not for covid.

[Fairview4Life]

Do you know how many people have diabetes and heart disease and other “comorbidities”? It’s a whole lot of people.

[lolwut]

You still haven't actually said what you think is wrong with that process and if it is a problem, what do you think is actually happening in the world right now. Like, do you think people are actually sick? What are they testing positive for?

Sorry... the answers to those questions are above my pay-grade, but there are more holes in the official/popular/generally accepted narrative than a slice of Swiss cheese.

The millions of people who got sick this year, and some of whom died of severe respiratory complications... Suppose they don't have COVID because the whole thing is a giant conspiracy. What did they have then? A stronger strain of the common cold? A new strain of the flu?

Just trying to understand where you're going with this line of reasoning.

[Vaclac]

Deaths are still deaths. I'm not sure what losing a loved one means to you...150000ish American families have lost someone in the last 4 months. Any attempt to downplay the significance of the virus does nothing to comfort those 150000ish families. It is actually a very callous way of diminishing the worth of a human life that would probably still be here if not for covid.

Actually a lot more than 150,000 American families have lost someone in the last 4 months. In a normal year an average of more than 300,000 Americans die every month. This argument that any comparison of how many deaths different sources cause makes you not value human life is ridiculous. Do you diminish human life when you don't think we should shut everything down every flu season? People lose loved ones every year to the flu. Do you callously diminish their suffering? Or do you think that a risk of death from the flu is low enough that it doesn't justify that while the higher risk of death from covid does? That's a reasonable position, but it depends explicitly on the number of deaths caused by covid rather than the idea that every life is priceless and therefore you cannot question any suggested solution that might save any life, no matter what the cost. Same thing with car accidents. Every life lost is a tragedy that causes immense suffering for loved ones, but that doesn't mean we should trash anyone who says "yes, but its still not worth banning vehicles to save those lives" as somehow callous and immoral.

[Kevin Willis]

This article is 3 months old.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/us-reports-66000-more-deaths-than-expected-so-far-this-year/2020/04/29/b6833548-8a68-11ea-ac8a-fe9b8088e101_story.html

Impact on popuplation for the virus in the US

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2020/07/us-coronavirus-deaths-births-population/614503/

[Badonkadonk]

Have avoided this thread for a while, but man, when did this turn into 4chan?

These conspiracist arguments are intellectually dishonest, and that's about the best thing you can say about them. Why is this allowed to continue?

[beanbag]

Why don't YOU tell us why you think that is.

I think the introduction of foreign genetic material to a sample that is being tested for the presence of corona virus could taint the sample and make the results of the test inaccurate and useless.

If that weren't the case, the introduction of foreign genetic materials to blood, saliva, or other fluid samples prior to testing would be a generally accepted and widely-used practice for all forms of medical testing and analysis.

For example, let's say you noticed you had increased thirst, frequent urination, fatigue and irritability the past few weeks and went to see the doctor to figure out why.

After speaking with the doctor to explain your symptoms, the doctor tells you he wants to take a blood sample and run some tests.

While he's not sure why you're more thirsty, urinate more often, get tired faster and don't have as much patience as you used to, many people with diabetes have similar symptoms so he requests a RPG test to measure the sugar levels in your blood.

After the sample of blood is taken from your arm, the lab tech "combines it with the genetic material from another source" before running the tests.

In this example, let's say the "genetic material" is a little bit of Coca-Cola or some other high-fructose/glucose/sugar liquid that's combined with your blood before your blood sugar levels are tested.

Would you still trust the validity of that test?

What is being added to a test is what it is. What is relevant here is the reason said substance is being added to the test.

If you are adding Coca-Cola for fun, then obviously one would not trust the validity of that test. That however, doesn't mean that in this specific case, the addition of genetic materials doesn't serve a purpose.

Also, this has nothing to do with my initial question to you about the previous diarrhea of stats you posted last week. What was the point of those?

[Kevin Willis]

Have avoided this thread for a while, but man, when did this turn into 4chan?

These conspiracist arguments are intellectually dishonest, and that's about the best thing you can say about them. Why is this allowed to continue?

I agree and I visit it more than you most likely. What gets me is I don't understand the point that's trying to be made. It's like someone saying the virus exists but it also doesn't exist the way we think it exists. I can understand the arguments to start up the economy again but a discussion on the value of life in comparison to this and that loses me. Especially when a conspiracy is tied around it.

I think some posters thought it was going to go away or not be so bad a few months ago and it is worse than imagined. So now it's a case of proving their point through convuluted arguments which is hard to understand. It's probably better to do what you're doing and just avoid this thread until it makes sense again.

[Chandan]

Hong Kong got a spike two weeks ago. It was a few days after I started to see kids in shool uniforms walking around again.

[Fairview4Life]

Herman Cain died.

[MadDogSHWA]

Anyone talking about the mortality rate of this disease is missing the forest for the trees.

I wish I had the article handy but off the top of my head:

For each covid death there are:
-2 strokes
-10 people with permanent neurological issues
-20 people with permanent heart issues
(about 15 other conditions I can't recall)

Reducing this down to a mortality rate is incredibly ignorant.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-term-health-effects-covid-19
https://globalnews.ca/news/7158513/covid-19-coronavirus-patients-long-term-health-impacts/
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/what-are-the-potential-long-term-effects-of-having-covid-19-1.4985944

I find it ignorant that you mention things like strokes, neurological issues and heart issues but make no mention that this is occuring to people that already have significant comorbidities

Show me the data.

The articles I've read made no such distinction.

Coronavirus linked to stroke in otherwise healthy young people
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200604095600.htm

Mortalitly rate is important because this is the pretext that the world is being shut down on.

"world is being shut down" is absurd hyperbole and not conducive to any form of intelligent conversation. We haven't even stopped flights.

I don't know if you just don't have the science background or haven't had the time to investigate but there are MANY long term effects in healthy people.

The response to this disease is based on a lot more than just the mortality rate. I've tried to explain that but you're rejecting it. I won't be responding further.

[bballsparkin]

The world might not be shutting down but it sure as **** has changed. That's what I think the discussion is. I believe we all agree this is a virus we don't want and lessening the spread of it is the goal. But how we do it is the question.

I have no problem wearing a mask indoors. It puts people at ease and is not a difficult thing to do. I do have a problem with the way being outside was handled. Living in my area of Toronto I found that part particularly stressful. Cops were driving around like they were on high alert. And as a tall pothead I felt some unfriendly eyes during that time. Ugly police tape on playgrounds and benches with crazy fines. While not mandating masks and leaving the borders open occurred. Couldn't we have employed people to walk around cleaning and educating? A risk involved in that I suppose but again that's what needs to be discussed. Signs on highways saying "stay inside!". I couldn't even listen to some radio stations because they kept hammering the stay inside motto. IMO, it was not well thought and was unfair to people with lower income. It's easier to stay inside when you have a nice backyard. Try that with a family living cheque to cheque in a small apartment building. Ugh, doesn't sound too healthy.

Also I wonder. If one of our major concerns is overwhelming hospitals with patients, well, have we been doing anything about that? Have we developed plans? Built more space for beds? Have we bought more ventilators? China did that like wow. I know way different circumstances but still. They did it. And with the money being spent why shouldn't we.

Even before this all happen: cleanliness was not a priority around the city. Too expensive I guess. The TTC can be ewwwww. Even still, the few times I've taken the subway it's looking less clean than ideal. I sometimes work in universities. Eww again. Clean those walls and shampoo that carpet. Nasty. We need to invest in cleanliness. I bet Taiwan and South Korea are much cleaner than here. That likely helps.

[dohboy_24]

What is being added to a test is what it is. What is relevant here is the reason said substance is being added to the test.

If you are adding Coca-Cola for fun, then obviously one would not trust the validity of that test. That however, doesn't mean that in this specific case, the addition of genetic materials doesn't serve a purpose.

Which purpose could or does it serve to add genetic materials to any blood, urine, or saliva sample prior to testing?

Also, this has nothing to do with my initial question to you about the previous diarrhea of stats you posted last week. What was the point of those?

Another member posted this tweet along with their comment that it was "the direct cause and effect of ignoring science" and my response was to illustrate how the stats have constantly experienced an increased number of tests, cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc. on the date of the week the article was published - Tuesday, July 7, 2020.

Read on Twitter

As hankscorpioLA noted in his reply, "The numbers go down on weekends because some entities do not report on weekends and some facilities are closed on weekends. That's why there is always a spike on Tuesdays."

So... while other members of this forum might wish to spread misinformation that would suggest the spike in hospitalizations were the "direct cause and effect of ignoring science", the reality of the situation is that there has typically been a spike on Tuesdays because "some entities do not report on weekends and some facilities are closed on weekends".

In addition, should one download the latest data on hospitals in each Florida county and calculate the available capacity for both the normal and total staffed bed capacities, you would have found then, and will still find today that a few hospitals have as much as 50% of their ICU beds empty, but most are between 60-70% full and about 25% of them have less than 10% or fewer ICU beds sitting empty and available to accommodate a new patient.

Even today, close to 20% of the ICU beds in the state of Florida are empty and while those numbers could be better than they are, should a similar article be posted next Tuesday or the Tuesday after that, I would hope the members of this forum remind themselves what is being reported and what it truly means rather than belittle their own intelligence and the intelligence of the rest of this forum by posting the kind of harmful, misleading, and inaccurate information as was posted here a few weeks ago.

Should you choose to be so open-minded, you might gain a more balanced and well-rounded perspective on the reality of the situation, rather than resort to neanderthal attempts at social and political dogma, insults, and character defaming comments (present company excluded) meant to distract attention away from the discussion at hand.

The virus is real and some hospitals have hit capacity, but just because CNN posts an article on a Tuesday that shines a light on the same patterns experienced the past 3 weeks beforehand, it doesn't mean it's now "the direct cause and effect of ignoring science", the result of "Ford not being as bad as DeSantis", or something you'd "thank heavens the antimask crowd are just a very small minority of idiots here" as others would like to suggest.

[Raps in 4]

Anyone talking about the mortality rate of this disease is missing the forest for the trees.

I wish I had the article handy but off the top of my head:

For each covid death there are:
-2 strokes
-10 people with permanent neurological issues
-20 people with permanent heart issues
(about 15 other conditions I can't recall)

Reducing this down to a mortality rate is incredibly ignorant.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-term-health-effects-covid-19
https://globalnews.ca/news/7158513/covid-19-coronavirus-patients-long-term-health-impacts/
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/what-are-the-potential-long-term-effects-of-having-covid-19-1.4985944

I find it ignorant that you mention things like strokes, neurological issues and heart issues but make no mention that this is occuring to people that already have significant comorbidities including but not limited to diabetes, heart disease which could be the real factor behind these things happening.

Mortalitly rate is important because this is the pretext that the world is being shut down on. Not for risk of stroke, but deaths. Infact most of the posts here talk about how the US death amount is going to eclipse 200,000 but make no mention that relative to the likely positive population the number is small. Recent studies have said that positive numbers could be 24 times higher then what is reported. The current death rate in the US is around 3%. If the number was only 3 times higher versus 24 mortality would be 1%. Come on.

Most studies have put the mortality rate at 1% (that was the estimate by most experts from day 1). As far as viral mortality rates go, that is incredibly high, and absolutely warrants widespread closures to the economy.