Dennis 37 wrote:Regardless of what you think of Carter as a person, or his talent, the net effect on the team was negative. I will admit that children may have started to play basketball because of him, but how did that translate to the team? What Carter inspired Canadian currently plays for the Raptors or was a significant contributor to the Raptors in the past? What American Carter fan, turned NBA star, decided to sign with the Raptors because of their admiration of Carter?
The team structured contracts to compliment Carter. Contracts that took years to come off the books. His leaving furthered the narrative that stars don't stay in Toronto. That narrative stuck to the team for years.
The narrative that Carter kept the franchise in Toronto is BS. Pre and Post Carter attendance was never an issue. In fact participation on this board, and others, was always higher when we sucked.
You're blaming Vince for the incompetence of of Raptors management. Carter's teammates when he became a star with were subpar for a team aiming to go deep into the playoffs. Many, such as Davis, JYD, Williams were overpaid so there wasn't sufficient cap room to sign other stars even if they wanted to play with Vince. Could Raptors management have still done something to create cap room? Of course. But they didn't have the competency to do so. They utterly failed at building around Vince, period. That ain't the fault of Vince.
Vince's Raptors years had the worst management in team history (e.g., as bad as Colangelo was, I'd still take him over Babcock anyday). The answer to all your questions can be answered by: "because Raptors team management sucked!" Hypothetically, had Masai been in charge in those days, there would've been a proper team around Vince and his star power would've been properly managed, and Vince would've never had disagreements with Raptors management that prompted him to ask for a trade.
I do agree with you that the Raptors franchise would've survived without Vince. However, Vince did put Toronto on the map during his time here. Toronto away games were near the top in attendance; Rap stars were wearing his jersey in videos; ESPN had a Vince Dunk of the Week regular slot; we had a Christmas Day game, etc.
The map stuff is all BS. For it to have meant anything it had to have had an effect. More effect than one Christmas day game.
1. No significant US based player signed here as a free agent because we were on the map. Not even when Vince was playing his best.
2. No significant US based player asked to be traded here because we were on the map. Not even when Vince was playing his best.
3. Tracy McGrady left here. Or were we not yet on the map?
4. Chris Bosh left here. Didn't anyone say to Chris, "But Chris, we are on the map. You can't leave a team that is on the map." ?
5. Did DeRozan decide to stay because he recognized Toronto was on a map, or did he stay because he was a loyal player? I would suggest the map had nothing to do with it.
6. Kyle Lowry had his bags packed to go to NY. He wasn't jumping up and down crying, "Please don't make me leave a city that is on the map."
Who cares what away attendance was like if it benefitted the team nothing? I think it is much better going into cities and seeing the stands full of Canadians, than bandwagon jumping Americans.
You claim that management sucked. I don't disagree. Because management sucked, and could not be overcome by being on the map, being on the map did not matter. It mattered to nobody.
Not being on the map, did not prevent me from cheering for Mighty Mouse and spare parts. Being on the map did not enhance my enjoyment of Vince during his best before date period. Being on the map had no effect on my interaction with my favorite team.
Being on the map is irrelevant and would be laughed at by any other fan base as a reason to be proud of a player or team. It smacks of collective insecurity.