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Pistons after Fred VV

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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#41 » by SFour » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:53 pm

ontnut wrote:
alan_156 wrote:
Syd-TK3 wrote:TD is obviously great but he's really not a Fred replacement. I know they tried using him at point guard a bit but he's not and his strengths come as a 2
So we'd still need to find an actual future pg



No arguing TD's athletic and shooting potential. He doesn't have great handles and isn't the floor general Fred has, he just doesn't have that experience yet. TD is not ready to step in Fred's shoes

I don't get what people see in TD that makes them believe he's the future solution to our starting PG spot. He'll be a good 6th man as a SG/PG, and spot starter, but I hardly see "PG" being his main position.


I don't think anyone believes TD will strictly be the PG....he's more of a combo guard, which FVV is as well. When I say TD is a FVV replacement I'm mostly considering him replacing FVV's minutes at the 2 spot. TD cannot replace a pure PG like Lowry.

I guess the best case scenario is FVV re-signs for a reasonable amount and TD or Powell takes the 2 spot....Powell obviously would take that starting 2 spot since he's been playing almost at an allstar level, and TD could develop off the bench for another 2-3 years. TD and Powell are also likely going to get paid big money so I don't know if it's possible to keep both.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#42 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:03 pm

Just my 2c, but I think we get a great deal given the current cap situation.

This was fluff, pre covid. It's nothing now.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#43 » by right between the eyes » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:03 pm

With Lowry retiring soon I can't see Masai letting a team sign Fred. Masai will undoubtedly offer him a nice contract...makes no sense for Fred to go to trash ass teams like Detroit and NY for a little more money
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#44 » by JShuttlesworth » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:14 pm

If the Pistons max Freddy, that would be a massive mistake on their end, it's not a good move for Detroit. Fred would have Griffin playing next to him for the first two years, it means they wouldn't be able to get any significant help until Griffin is gone. Aside from Blake, their roster looks incredibly thin with only Snell / Kennard / Rose / Doumbouya / 1st RD Pick. Do they really want to max pay Fred / Griffin max money only to miss the playoffs for two straight years?

Is he really going to find a better situation than Toronto right now? I'm pretty confident Masai is going to pay up for him. Building a team with Siakam / OG / Powell / Davis doesn't seem like the worst core to sign on with. Especially given our cap space and Masai's success so far, it seems like a safe choice to stay. Lowry is getting old FVV is going to get the keys.

All the power to him if he chooses to leave though.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#45 » by OGLife » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:29 pm

SFour wrote:
ontnut wrote:
alan_156 wrote:

No arguing TD's athletic and shooting potential. He doesn't have great handles and isn't the floor general Fred has, he just doesn't have that experience yet. TD is not ready to step in Fred's shoes

I don't get what people see in TD that makes them believe he's the future solution to our starting PG spot. He'll be a good 6th man as a SG/PG, and spot starter, but I hardly see "PG" being his main position.


I don't think anyone believes TD will strictly be the PG....he's more of a combo guard, which FVV is as well. When I say TD is a FVV replacement I'm mostly considering him replacing FVV's minutes at the 2 spot. TD cannot replace a pure PG like Lowry.

I guess the best case scenario is FVV re-signs for a reasonable amount and TD or Powell takes the 2 spot....Powell obviously would take that starting 2 spot since he's been playing almost at an allstar level, and TD could develop off the bench for another 2-3 years. TD and Powell are also likely going to get paid big money so I don't know if it's possible to keep both.

Don't forget OG in the scenario if we land Giannis. FVV, Gaol and Ibaka must be retained.

Lowry is the oddman out who you only want to retain for Vet Min once his contact is up, surprisingly.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#46 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:51 pm

I think Weaver was always turning down GM jobs because he wanted a guarantee to tank. I doubt they throw a bag at FVV considering they just let Drummond go for peanuts and have to wait out the half-seasons of Blake Griffin's deal until he retires.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#47 » by Salted Meat » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 pm

If teams are gonna throw max money at him then you have to let him walk, but we really should be looking at him as a replacement for Lowry. I think we should do what we can to keep him.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#48 » by alan_156 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:58 pm

Masai/Webster will have a tough time deciding how much longer to resign Lowry to one year big money type of deals when he starts to decline due to age and wear and tear. It's gonna be tough to find the right time to transition our pg position post Lowry without handcuffing us salary cap wise.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#49 » by Lateral Quicks » Yesterday 12:03 am

On the one hand FVV seems very much like the guy to take the most money (that whole Bet on Yourself schtick), but on the other hand I would hope he rewards the organization for taking such a chance on him and giving him so much opportunity. He would not have had the opportunity in most other situations.

If the Pistons offer him the max and he takes it, it would be a mistake to match. I'm not sure he'd want to play for Casey, though.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#50 » by dacrusha » Yesterday 2:16 am

FVV is our PG of the future and is going to stay with the Raptors.

They’ll sign him to a fair offer or match whatever comes from the Pistons camp.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#51 » by OGLife » Yesterday 2:23 am

Would you rather have FVV or Ingram at max?
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#52 » by Ackshun » Yesterday 3:18 am

OGLife wrote:Would you rather have FVV or Ingram at max?


Ingram 10/10 times.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#53 » by old skool » Yesterday 5:14 am

Detroit has $32.9-million coming off the books due to expiring contracts for Reggie Jackson and Brandon Knight. They will spend something significant for a point guard. Whether or not they have big money for FVV probably depends on other free agent options that might be available.

I think pre-Covid, the max FVV could have received would have been about $126-million over 4 years, with a starting salary of about $28.75-million. I don't think anyone was expecting Fred to demand that much, but I think he could easily get the 4 yrs/$85-million that Brogdon got from Indiana last summer, Covid induced disruptions to the cap and team salary budgets notwithstanding.

However, isn't the Raptors biggest free agent issue that they will have $90-million in cap holds for Gasol, Ibaka and VanVleet? The Raps will have to fill those positions, either by resigning all three or some combination of resignings and free agent additions. Free agency can be a game of musical chairs, with decisions needed to be made quickly, if not made before the music officially begins. The Raptors would be greatly helped if VanVleet gets best offers from other teams in advance of the official free agent period and informs Masai of his potential moves so Masai can put a contingent plan together if needed.

I welcome any corrections to my (pre-Covid) assumptions on max contracts and cap holds. I'm just trying to get a handle on actual dollar amounts instead of talking "max" and "non-max".
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#54 » by Chandan » Yesterday 7:59 am

PT416 wrote:
Alfred wrote:Fred is an excellent secondary player. He's a good shooter, a great defender at the PG spot and can run a team. Is he worth a maximum contract? Only if you already have a legit max contract guy and you need to consolidate talent, and even then it's a reach. Spending the max on him when you have no other top tier players to pair him with would be an absolute disaster, he's not a guy that can turn around an entire franchise, so it would be a terrible decision for the Pistons. The Pistons front office is a mess so it's definitely possible.

I think Fred is absolutely maximizing his talent level through sheer hard work, determination and smarts, but his physical limitations definitely hamper him. He's a small guard that has problems finishing around the basket. I want FVV on the Raptors for the rest of his career, but if someone else throws the Max at him, that is 100% becoming a bad contract and you might just have to let him walk.

Very well said but I do disagree. I think that he has what it takes to become the next Lowry for whatever team. He's young, driven and has a ton of winning attributes. All he has to do is continue to steadily improve and add to his game at this point and he has a great chance to be another Lowry which is a huge compliment, considering Lowry has been a top 5-10 PG for most of his latter years.


I think his roof is close to last seasons lowry, but not quite there.
Fred will never be one of those kemba or 2017 lowry type pg because he doesnt have the moves to get seperation on the bounce (if he does he better start showing it) , he will always have to take whatever the defense give him. That level of play could get u to the finals as a cog evidently last year but i am not sure its the level of impact/production deserving of a max contract as it takes away a huge chunk of talent from other spots. (Last years circumstances was unique in that a max level mvp type player fell into our lap. Thats why lowry worked.
Under normal circumstances we wouldnt even be contenders but have maxed out our cap pool)

This is all moot if he starts shooting 48% from threes.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#55 » by Westside Gunn » Yesterday 8:00 am

are teams even willing to dish out bags during covid?

he will go for the most money. we expect players to stay loyal but for the most part its a business.

whoever gives him the bag will most likely regret it but having said that i think the raptors need to secure the position as Lowry starts to decline.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#56 » by Chandan » Yesterday 8:06 am

Westside Gunn wrote:are teams even willing to dish out bags during covid?

he will go for the most money. we expect players to stay loyal but for the most part its a business.

whoever gives him the bag will most likely regret it but having said that i think the raptors need to secure the position as Lowry starts to decline.


This is why large market teams are such ****. They dont ever need to plan ahead on these stuff. When the time comes they just pick from the pool.
If lowry goes down next year, and FVV leaves we would have to rely on terrence davis being full time PG, if hes not up to task we are ****.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#57 » by team edward » Yesterday 12:18 pm

OGLife wrote:Would you rather have FVV or Ingram at max?

**** it, let’s get both
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#58 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Yesterday 12:52 pm

casual_raps_fan wrote:I don't understand what the Pistons think they will accomplish by signing Fred. Let's just say he signs for a 4 year 80 million contract (which he wouldn't because he would obviously rather just resigning with the Raptors for that contract) and they resign Christian Wood for something like 4 years 50 million. If things work out well, they'll squeeze into the playoffs into the 8th seed... and then what?

I don't get it.


well you can say that with every team that is not in the playoffs at the moment. Pistons need to surround Griffin with talent. I think they are a much better team with better guard play. FVV could make them better than the 8th seed. Casey will vouch for FVV as well. FVV will also want to be the lead guy. If Lowry is still around, that could be a hit on FVV's ego etc etc. who knows.

Money talks.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#59 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Yesterday 12:56 pm

OGLife wrote:Would you rather have FVV or Ingram at max?


Ingram, duh.
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Re: Pistons after Fred VV 

Post#60 » by BBallG » Yesterday 3:11 pm

FVV is not, and most likely will never be a star player, so I'm not buying this max talk from any team. Yes, I know there are stupid teams out there, but not that stupid (right??).

He is in an ideal situation with us and MU will pay him, deservedly so, unless it's something ridiculous.

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