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When we win the chip, will there be a parade?

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Metallikid
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Re: When we win the chip, will there be a parade? 

Post#61 » by Metallikid » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:26 pm

realball wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
realball wrote:
What the hell are you talking about? The government can stop the official parade, but you think somehow thousands of people are still going to somehow organize their own parade or something, masked as a protest???

Are you like 12? No one with a straight head cares about basketball enough to be endangering themselves because of a championship right now. Do you remember how many kids were at the last parade? Do you think parents are going to be lining up for the parade this year or something? Don't act like a championship parade is anything like a protest, people came out to protest an important issue. Celebrating a god damn basketball trophy is not important.

We've been in lockdown for less than 6 months. Countries have been in wartime for 10x longer. Stop acting like this going to continue "indefinitely", it's not the end of the world. A missed parade two months from now doesn't mean we're going to stay in lockdown forever.


People will celebrate because shared group experiences are the core of human life.

In wartime people can still see their friends and loved ones up close and hug them and socialize and gather at private places close to other people. Wartime is usually about rationing and curfews. If you're going to argue that we're living like we're in Nazi occupied Eastern Europe then guess what, people won't live that like for that long when they realize it isn't going to be going away anytime soon.

People still came out and partied when Liverpool won the BPL. Lots of people are willing to take a risk to enjoy life. Eventually we all will have to.


Actually, I think life is the core of human life, and most people are actually worried about endangering their own life and their loved ones by gathering in huge groups. I have no doubt that people will party on the streets the night the Raptors win the championship, you can't stop everyone from doing whatever they want. But there won't be a parade a couple days after. You are out of your mind if you think the Raptors or the city or anyone else is going to organize something like that.

And did you just try to imply that wartime is somehow better than this lol? I am saying the opposite of what you think I'm saying: we're not living in gulags. Most people have been able to move on with their lives. Most people have found ways to stay in touch with other people. We're moving into stage 3 and most people are adjusting to this kind of lifestyle. Most people are starting to go and see people outside their bubble, just not in the same way as before. Masks and hand sanitizer are a sacrifice most people have been willing to make. We all want concerts, parades, clubs, and misc. to open up, but once again, a sacrifice people are making for the bigger picture.


No, life is not the core of human life, that's a null statement. I'm asking the age old question, "What is the good life?" and the resounding answer is this certainly isn't, not what we're doing right now if that ends up moving towards being a long-term state of affairs. Living means nothing if you can't actually do the things human beings need to survive - that's air, water, food, and face-to-face human interaction, touch and group experience. In the recent past when life expectancy was much lower than it is now people lived despite the risks, they gathered despite the risks when a flu or cold killed scores of people every year including many more young people. Sure, it sucks, but if Covid becomes endemic we'll have to bite the bullet and live normal lives again with the risk that we'll just have to fight Covid when we get it, and try to be as healthy as possible.

My point is there is no moving on from basic human socialization, there is a fantasy of ignorance that people are engaging in that this is in some way acceptable when many, many people realize even now that this is not tenable long term and will psychologically damage everyone worse than getting Covid, and much more for the young and those who don't have a strong social network. 100 videocalls can't replace sitting next to someone arm-in-arm. You can go look up any number of articles from 2019 about the loneliness epidemic and the mental illness epidemic. Do you think those things are getting better or worse? How much worse do you think they are getting? And my point is that no, it is not a sacrifice people are willing to make indefinitely because those are normal human activities that are a part of proper psycho-social development and wellbeing and they should take precedence at a certain point over the mere risk of catching or spreading Covid. Dancing with other humans close together, literally a human activity since the beginning of time. Going to places where people could share common interests and meet friends and talk face-to-face, literally a human activity since the beginning of time. Having gatherings of friends and family close together laughing, smiling, in close proximity, literally a human activity since the beginning of time. These things cannot be replaced or changed. People are operating out of a fear that is not in proportion to the risk. This cannot last long, and the government has no right to make these sorts of impositions in any way other than as an emergency power - and emergencies have limits.
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Re: When we win the chip, will there be a parade? 

Post#62 » by Metallikid » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:44 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
I'm betting a vaccine solves the issue whether it has to be repeated or not. You're statement was with so many excuses it's intent is that it doesn't work. I'll bet it works whether it takes more than one shot or not. Most vaccines now are two dose so I fail to see an issue. You can continue saying it won't. I think that's pretty clear what your intent was... doom and gloom.


No, I mean it would have to be like the flu shot where you have to get it every 4-6 months and it wouldn't cover every strain; I would include a 2-shot if you say it will provide life-long immunity like Measles or Mumps. My point is that there will not be a vaccine that removes the COVID threat. That I am willing to bet on. And it's not my intent to be doom and gloom, it's an unfortunate result that is the by-product of the research I've done.


Then how is that a problem if it works? But that's not all you stated and was NOT your only point...

You questioned delivery... they have the supplies and have solved are solving it. This started months ago and shouldn't even be a question if you're staying up to date.

You question ingredients without know what it's made from obviously. Pfizer alone has plans to manufacture 100 million does in December alone.

There won't be enough? There are a hundred companies working on this that will all come up with various different solutions and trying to produce a billion doses each. I don't think supply will be the issue unless everyone fails, and you would have known that prior to Phase 3 trials.

Governments are pre-ordering so I fail to see how it's only the rich when the first people that should get it will be the elderly and healthcare workers, in a system of socialized medicine.

Since it's already in Phase 3 trials, the intent of that is to prove its safe (and effective) which you questioned.

MMR you got it at two different ages, three times probably. Tetanus/diphtheria is not lifelong. There are a number of vaccines that require additional shots later.

Your research? I dunno man... my work was about how small exposures of substances can harm people so I'm pretty comfortable with dead virus vaccines, regardless of what else they put in it.

Remove the covid threat with one shot? Look at your post, that wasn't really your point unless you really expressed it badly. And it's the only reason I even responded, because you're probably scaring someone out there for absolutely no reason without knowing most of the details.


Most vaccines take multiple years to get a proper understanding of their long-term effects, these vaccines will not have those. There will be a significant risk in taking these even if they are proven to create an antibody response. And again, boosters or not, antibodies appear to last for 4-6 months? Are we going to be able to produce and deliver 8 billion doses two or three times a year every year? No, we won't. Pfizer can say they're going to make 100 million doses - they don't even have definitive proof that it will work and isn't dangerous, that's marketing. The company that makes it has no incentive to license it to other companies so it will rely on one company expanding their production, they're not just going to share it so other companies can produce it. Hell, the Moderna vaccine is a new, never before used type of vaccine using mRNA and they skipped testing it on animals. We have no idea what its ramifications could be.
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Re: When we win the chip, will there be a parade? 

Post#63 » by Johnny Bball » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:11 pm

Metallikid wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
No, I mean it would have to be like the flu shot where you have to get it every 4-6 months and it wouldn't cover every strain; I would include a 2-shot if you say it will provide life-long immunity like Measles or Mumps. My point is that there will not be a vaccine that removes the COVID threat. That I am willing to bet on. And it's not my intent to be doom and gloom, it's an unfortunate result that is the by-product of the research I've done.


Then how is that a problem if it works? But that's not all you stated and was NOT your only point...

You questioned delivery... they have the supplies and have solved are solving it. This started months ago and shouldn't even be a question if you're staying up to date.

You question ingredients without know what it's made from obviously. Pfizer alone has plans to manufacture 100 million does in December alone.

There won't be enough? There are a hundred companies working on this that will all come up with various different solutions and trying to produce a billion doses each. I don't think supply will be the issue unless everyone fails, and you would have known that prior to Phase 3 trials.

Governments are pre-ordering so I fail to see how it's only the rich when the first people that should get it will be the elderly and healthcare workers, in a system of socialized medicine.

Since it's already in Phase 3 trials, the intent of that is to prove its safe (and effective) which you questioned.

MMR you got it at two different ages, three times probably. Tetanus/diphtheria is not lifelong. There are a number of vaccines that require additional shots later.

Your research? I dunno man... my work was about how small exposures of substances can harm people so I'm pretty comfortable with dead virus vaccines, regardless of what else they put in it.

Remove the covid threat with one shot? Look at your post, that wasn't really your point unless you really expressed it badly. And it's the only reason I even responded, because you're probably scaring someone out there for absolutely no reason without knowing most of the details.


Most vaccines take multiple years to get a proper understanding of their long-term effects, these vaccines will not have those. There will be a significant risk in taking these even if they are proven to create an antibody response. And again, boosters or not, antibodies appear to last for 4-6 months? Are we going to be able to produce and deliver 8 billion doses two or three times a year every year? No, we won't. Pfizer can say they're going to make 100 million doses - they don't even have definitive proof that it will work and isn't dangerous, that's marketing. The company that makes it has no incentive to license it to other companies so it will rely on one company expanding their production, they're not just going to share it so other companies can produce it. Hell, the Moderna vaccine is a new, never before used type of vaccine using mRNA and they skipped testing it on animals. We have no idea what its ramifications could be.


That's what the phase 1, 2 and 3 trails are for. Have antibodies disappeared after 6 months from those first infected and are people being re-infected yet? No. Yes, each large firm plans on delivering and has the capacity to deliverer billions of vaccines next year alone. They don't have to share their solution, each has their own solutions and have developed it independently and have moved past phase 1 and 2 trials. Oxford university has people willing to volunteer to be intentionally exposed to see effectiveness for example. Honestly guy.... you don't know what you are talking about here and just throwing stuff at a wall to see if it sticks, and this type of rhetoric is more dangerous than any vaccine will end up being. I'm just going to stop now as it's pointless as you have listened to nothing I've said, haven't really read, and just want to invent more hypotheses instead of making them simple questions.
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Re: When we win the chip, will there be a parade? 

Post#64 » by Metallikid » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:39 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Then how is that a problem if it works? But that's not all you stated and was NOT your only point...

You questioned delivery... they have the supplies and have solved are solving it. This started months ago and shouldn't even be a question if you're staying up to date.

You question ingredients without know what it's made from obviously. Pfizer alone has plans to manufacture 100 million does in December alone.

There won't be enough? There are a hundred companies working on this that will all come up with various different solutions and trying to produce a billion doses each. I don't think supply will be the issue unless everyone fails, and you would have known that prior to Phase 3 trials.

Governments are pre-ordering so I fail to see how it's only the rich when the first people that should get it will be the elderly and healthcare workers, in a system of socialized medicine.

Since it's already in Phase 3 trials, the intent of that is to prove its safe (and effective) which you questioned.

MMR you got it at two different ages, three times probably. Tetanus/diphtheria is not lifelong. There are a number of vaccines that require additional shots later.

Your research? I dunno man... my work was about how small exposures of substances can harm people so I'm pretty comfortable with dead virus vaccines, regardless of what else they put in it.

Remove the covid threat with one shot? Look at your post, that wasn't really your point unless you really expressed it badly. And it's the only reason I even responded, because you're probably scaring someone out there for absolutely no reason without knowing most of the details.


Most vaccines take multiple years to get a proper understanding of their long-term effects, these vaccines will not have those. There will be a significant risk in taking these even if they are proven to create an antibody response. And again, boosters or not, antibodies appear to last for 4-6 months? Are we going to be able to produce and deliver 8 billion doses two or three times a year every year? No, we won't. Pfizer can say they're going to make 100 million doses - they don't even have definitive proof that it will work and isn't dangerous, that's marketing. The company that makes it has no incentive to license it to other companies so it will rely on one company expanding their production, they're not just going to share it so other companies can produce it. Hell, the Moderna vaccine is a new, never before used type of vaccine using mRNA and they skipped testing it on animals. We have no idea what its ramifications could be.


That's what the phase 1, 2 and 3 trails are for. Have antibodies disappeared after 6 months from those first infected and are people being re-infected yet? No. Yes, each large firm plans on delivering and has the capacity to deliverer billions of vaccines next year alone. They don't have to share their solution, each has their own solutions and have developed it independently and have moved past phase 1 and 2 trials. Oxford university has people willing to volunteer to be intentionally exposed to see effectiveness for example. Honestly guy.... you don't know what you are talking about here and just throwing stuff at a wall to see if it sticks, and this type of rhetoric is more dangerous than any vaccine will end up being. I'm just going to stop now as it's pointless as you have listened to nothing I've said, haven't really read, and just want to invent more hypotheses instead of making them simple questions.


I'm right to be skeptical of the efficacy of a rushed vaccine that will have no long term clinical studies for a disease where the antibody response is so-far proven to be 3-4 months, re-infections appears possible, and that will be produced for profit between competing non-governmental pharmaceutical companies which means we may have several vaccines out there and we won't know what the interactions between them will be. Sorry if I don't think it will end up working out as cleanly as we would all like.
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Re: When we win the chip, will there be a parade? 

Post#65 » by realball » Sun Aug 2, 2020 1:41 pm

Metallikid wrote:
realball wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
People will celebrate because shared group experiences are the core of human life.

In wartime people can still see their friends and loved ones up close and hug them and socialize and gather at private places close to other people. Wartime is usually about rationing and curfews. If you're going to argue that we're living like we're in Nazi occupied Eastern Europe then guess what, people won't live that like for that long when they realize it isn't going to be going away anytime soon.

People still came out and partied when Liverpool won the BPL. Lots of people are willing to take a risk to enjoy life. Eventually we all will have to.


Actually, I think life is the core of human life, and most people are actually worried about endangering their own life and their loved ones by gathering in huge groups. I have no doubt that people will party on the streets the night the Raptors win the championship, you can't stop everyone from doing whatever they want. But there won't be a parade a couple days after. You are out of your mind if you think the Raptors or the city or anyone else is going to organize something like that.

And did you just try to imply that wartime is somehow better than this lol? I am saying the opposite of what you think I'm saying: we're not living in gulags. Most people have been able to move on with their lives. Most people have found ways to stay in touch with other people. We're moving into stage 3 and most people are adjusting to this kind of lifestyle. Most people are starting to go and see people outside their bubble, just not in the same way as before. Masks and hand sanitizer are a sacrifice most people have been willing to make. We all want concerts, parades, clubs, and misc. to open up, but once again, a sacrifice people are making for the bigger picture.


No, life is not the core of human life, that's a null statement. I'm asking the age old question, "What is the good life?" and the resounding answer is this certainly isn't, not what we're doing right now if that ends up moving towards being a long-term state of affairs. Living means nothing if you can't actually do the things human beings need to survive - that's air, water, food, and face-to-face human interaction, touch and group experience. In the recent past when life expectancy was much lower than it is now people lived despite the risks, they gathered despite the risks when a flu or cold killed scores of people every year including many more young people. Sure, it sucks, but if Covid becomes endemic we'll have to bite the bullet and live normal lives again with the risk that we'll just have to fight Covid when we get it, and try to be as healthy as possible.

My point is there is no moving on from basic human socialization, there is a fantasy of ignorance that people are engaging in that this is in some way acceptable when many, many people realize even now that this is not tenable long term and will psychologically damage everyone worse than getting Covid, and much more for the young and those who don't have a strong social network. 100 videocalls can't replace sitting next to someone arm-in-arm. You can go look up any number of articles from 2019 about the loneliness epidemic and the mental illness epidemic. Do you think those things are getting better or worse? How much worse do you think they are getting? And my point is that no, it is not a sacrifice people are willing to make indefinitely because those are normal human activities that are a part of proper psycho-social development and wellbeing and they should take precedence at a certain point over the mere risk of catching or spreading Covid. Dancing with other humans close together, literally a human activity since the beginning of time. Going to places where people could share common interests and meet friends and talk face-to-face, literally a human activity since the beginning of time. Having gatherings of friends and family close together laughing, smiling, in close proximity, literally a human activity since the beginning of time. These things cannot be replaced or changed. People are operating out of a fear that is not in proportion to the risk. This cannot last long, and the government has no right to make these sorts of impositions in any way other than as an emergency power - and emergencies have limits.


Like I said. Things are slowly starting to open up again. This emergency does have a limit, you are just not patient enough to see it. Honestly, this sounds like personal issue for you about coping with the pandemic than anything... I would suggest that you still find a way to see your loved ones. Most people have.
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Re: When we win the chip, will there be a parade? 

Post#66 » by OAKLEY_2 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:00 pm

SocialistHipHop wrote:No vaccine = no parade

As already said, lessons from last year's poor planning and then this plague would influence any celebration. Plus October might be depressing so they might have to have some manner of virtual rally. Big gatherings are likely out until end of 2021...

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