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Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread

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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#101 » by 720 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:08 pm

Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Once a player hits 25, he should be taking his profession a lot more seriously. No excuses. Watching Oshae's vlog a bit on YT, my impression is not a good one of the team in general (Yes, its not a great example but you can get a great indication). I know people older than them with families, full time jobs, who work harder than these dudes. I don't want to hear the BS. Prove it. You have 3 months off again, all the resources you need to improve your games. Get off your ass and work. Focus on skills and video only.

You think they are working out and working on their game 24/7? They are humans and need breaks too. No one is in the gym the entire day and night. All athletes have some free time on their hands and they all spend it differently. This is a stupid way to critique a player when you have no information on how hard he works.

Lebron is out here doing shows, movies ect. He works super hard.

Stop treating athletes like that.


Treating them like what? They make millions to be in shape for basketball. I don’t think he’s talking about working on their game 24/7.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#102 » by dalton749 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:15 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
polo007 wrote:
Bryan Hayes, Jamie McLennan and Jeff O’Neill are joined by TSN Basketball Insider Jack Armstrong to get his take on what the future is for some of the Raptors major free-agent players.


If Vanvleet isn't taking $15M per then its better to sign and trade him. I really don't want to waste time with one year deal for Ibaka either. This team needs a C for the present and future and I don't think its worth the risk for Ibaka to not cash in on what has been the greatest couple of years in his career. The only way you bring back Ibaka and Vanvleet is if they're signing reasonably priced deals AND the intent is to trade them.

Marc is done and if we're going to try to keep him on a cheap deal, we would be better served making that offer to Giles, Noel or Hernangomez. Really, the only thing I'd be offering Gasol is the veterans minimum as a third string C.

I really, really think we should be exploring the trade market seriously for Turner, Oladipo and Holiday.

I'd also think really hard about that TOR-GSW-PHI deal. We aren't going to get more than that for Lowry, he gets to finish his career at home and we have a pick and scoring wing to help us through the rebuild OR to be traded for the next available superstar.


I really don’t want to take on wiggins. I would rather just deal with philly directly and do Lowry for horford, thybulle, 21st pick or something along those lines.

Lowry is happy going to philly and maybe they consider hiring Adrian Griffin or one of our guys as the next coach.

We get a solid Center to fill in the hole, can pay fvv and hopefully ibaka then take the training wheels off of norm, TD, OG And see what we’ve got, along with a few other draft picks that would be coming in.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#103 » by Rapsfan07 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:31 pm

dalton749 wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
polo007 wrote:
Bryan Hayes, Jamie McLennan and Jeff O’Neill are joined by TSN Basketball Insider Jack Armstrong to get his take on what the future is for some of the Raptors major free-agent players.


If Vanvleet isn't taking $15M per then its better to sign and trade him. I really don't want to waste time with one year deal for Ibaka either. This team needs a C for the present and future and I don't think its worth the risk for Ibaka to not cash in on what has been the greatest couple of years in his career. The only way you bring back Ibaka and Vanvleet is if they're signing reasonably priced deals AND the intent is to trade them.

Marc is done and if we're going to try to keep him on a cheap deal, we would be better served making that offer to Giles, Noel or Hernangomez. Really, the only thing I'd be offering Gasol is the veterans minimum as a third string C.

I really, really think we should be exploring the trade market seriously for Turner, Oladipo and Holiday.

I'd also think really hard about that TOR-GSW-PHI deal. We aren't going to get more than that for Lowry, he gets to finish his career at home and we have a pick and scoring wing to help us through the rebuild OR to be traded for the next available superstar.


I really don’t want to take on wiggins. I would rather just deal with philly directly and do Lowry for horford, thybulle, 21st pick or something along those lines.

Lowry is happy going to philly and maybe they consider hiring Adrian Griffin or one of our guys as the next coach.

We get a solid Center to fill in the hole, can pay fvv and hopefully ibaka then take the training wheels off of norm, TD, OG And see what we’ve got, along with a few other draft picks that would be coming in.


My brother, you would rather:

1) take on Horford who is almost a full decade older than Wiggins and is declining, AND

2) take the 21st pick instead of the 2nd overall pick? Thybulle does not come close to covering the gap between those two picks

Not to mention, a scoring wing will always have some kind of value in the league, not mention the chance he may increase his value here. Teams like Charlotte, NYK, Chicago & Detroit could use a guy like that, should we choose to move him down the road.

Idk. I'm not a huge fan of Wiggins but there's way too much potential upside to a deal like this, which is really what we should be focusing on since there's a very real chance we'll be rebuilding soon.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#104 » by Rapsfan07 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:35 pm

Raptorfan2012 wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
polo007 wrote:
Bryan Hayes, Jamie McLennan and Jeff O’Neill are joined by TSN Basketball Insider Jack Armstrong to get his take on what the future is for some of the Raptors major free-agent players.


If Vanvleet isn't taking $15M per then its better to sign and trade him. I really don't want to waste time with one year deal for Ibaka either. This team needs a C for the present and future and I don't think its worth the risk for Ibaka to not cash in on what has been the greatest couple of years in his career. The only way you bring back Ibaka and Vanvleet is if they're signing reasonably priced deals AND the intent is to trade them.

Marc is done and if we're going to try to keep him on a cheap deal, we would be better served making that offer to Giles, Noel or Hernangomez. Really, the only thing I'd be offering Gasol is the veterans minimum as a third string C.

I really, really think we should be exploring the trade market seriously for Turner, Oladipo and Holiday.

I'd also think really hard about that TOR-GSW-PHI deal. We aren't going to get more than that for Lowry, he gets to finish his career at home and we have a pick and scoring wing to help us through the rebuild OR to be traded for the next available superstar.


Problem is we don't have a lot of assets to trade right now with half our team heading into FA. Our most valuable piece is OG, and I don't see him going anywhere. Pascal is probably not movable right now. Our main assets are Norm and Lowry - and one will have to think twice about moving Lowry though. SJ and McCaw can be salary fillers, but they are not the main attraction.

Sign and Trades are difficult as there are many variables involved. Will Fred or Ibaka want to sign with Indiana or New Orleans? I don't know...


Agreed re: S&Ts will be difficult. I'm not entirely sure when contracts signed during free agency become available to be traded. But maybe that's the key - resign our guys to fair money and move them by the deadline.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#105 » by Raptors_128 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:03 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
dalton749 wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
If Vanvleet isn't taking $15M per then its better to sign and trade him. I really don't want to waste time with one year deal for Ibaka either. This team needs a C for the present and future and I don't think its worth the risk for Ibaka to not cash in on what has been the greatest couple of years in his career. The only way you bring back Ibaka and Vanvleet is if they're signing reasonably priced deals AND the intent is to trade them.

Marc is done and if we're going to try to keep him on a cheap deal, we would be better served making that offer to Giles, Noel or Hernangomez. Really, the only thing I'd be offering Gasol is the veterans minimum as a third string C.

I really, really think we should be exploring the trade market seriously for Turner, Oladipo and Holiday.

I'd also think really hard about that TOR-GSW-PHI deal. We aren't going to get more than that for Lowry, he gets to finish his career at home and we have a pick and scoring wing to help us through the rebuild OR to be traded for the next available superstar.


I really don’t want to take on wiggins. I would rather just deal with philly directly and do Lowry for horford, thybulle, 21st pick or something along those lines.

Lowry is happy going to philly and maybe they consider hiring Adrian Griffin or one of our guys as the next coach.

We get a solid Center to fill in the hole, can pay fvv and hopefully ibaka then take the training wheels off of norm, TD, OG And see what we’ve got, along with a few other draft picks that would be coming in.


My brother, you would rather:

1) take on Horford who is almost a full decade older than Wiggins and is declining, AND

2) take the 21st pick instead of the 2nd overall pick? Thybulle does not come close to covering the gap between those two picks

Not to mention, a scoring wing will always have some kind of value in the league, not mention the chance he may increase his value here. Teams like Charlotte, NYK, Chicago & Detroit could use a guy like that, should we choose to move him down the road.

Idk. I'm not a huge fan of Wiggins but there's way too much potential upside to a deal like this, which is really what we should be focusing on since there's a very real chance we'll be rebuilding soon.


Man if you thought Wiggins would be hard to move, Horford would be next to impossible.

Giving Masai and this organization a #2 pick which is basically the rights to any player in the draft (minus whoever gets taken 1st) is a dream. It’s a bad draft but, there’s always a few stars somewhere in there. This is our best chance to get a franchise changing talent or asset.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#106 » by dalton749 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:33 pm

Raptors_128 wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
dalton749 wrote:
I really don’t want to take on wiggins. I would rather just deal with philly directly and do Lowry for horford, thybulle, 21st pick or something along those lines.

Lowry is happy going to philly and maybe they consider hiring Adrian Griffin or one of our guys as the next coach.

We get a solid Center to fill in the hole, can pay fvv and hopefully ibaka then take the training wheels off of norm, TD, OG And see what we’ve got, along with a few other draft picks that would be coming in.


My brother, you would rather:

1) take on Horford who is almost a full decade older than Wiggins and is declining, AND

2) take the 21st pick instead of the 2nd overall pick? Thybulle does not come close to covering the gap between those two picks

Not to mention, a scoring wing will always have some kind of value in the league, not mention the chance he may increase his value here. Teams like Charlotte, NYK, Chicago & Detroit could use a guy like that, should we choose to move him down the road.

Idk. I'm not a huge fan of Wiggins but there's way too much potential upside to a deal like this, which is really what we should be focusing on since there's a very real chance we'll be rebuilding soon.


Man if you thought Wiggins would be hard to move, Horford would be next to impossible.

Giving Masai and this organization a #2 pick which is basically the rights to any player in the draft (minus whoever gets taken 1st) is a dream. It’s a bad draft but, there’s always a few stars somewhere in there. This is our best chance to get a franchise changing talent or asset.



The warriors aren’t dealing wiggins and 2 for Lowry or horford, I don’t even see how that is realistic which is why I choose to ignore it. Lowry isn’t a good enough fit there and is on a 1 year deal. There’s no justifying that. Horford is a good fit but there’s no chance they give up 2 to get it done because wiggins also fills a need there right now. The warriors would want Pascal from us to do that deal.

Horford is still a good player and would fit on our roster very well, he is to centers what Lowry is to point guards. I don’t put much stock in a down year with a horrible fit and having to come off the bench. His contract isn’t great and may make things more difficult if giannis wants to come here but you cross that path when it comes.

He solidifies our lineup and helps us remain competitive while rebuilding where as wiggins is just a worse version of powell.

Bottom line is if you trade Lowry, it’s done with his best intentions in mind, you don’t just ship him off to the highest bidder. A philly deal clearly does that and we get a few minor assets while ticking off most of our boxes as well.

Fvv/TD
Powell/??
OG/??
Pascal/??
Horford/ibaka hopefully

The other young guys can compete for roles along with the incoming draft picks.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#107 » by Yeezus_ » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:52 pm

720 wrote:
Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Once a player hits 25, he should be taking his profession a lot more seriously. No excuses. Watching Oshae's vlog a bit on YT, my impression is not a good one of the team in general (Yes, its not a great example but you can get a great indication). I know people older than them with families, full time jobs, who work harder than these dudes. I don't want to hear the BS. Prove it. You have 3 months off again, all the resources you need to improve your games. Get off your ass and work. Focus on skills and video only.

You think they are working out and working on their game 24/7? They are humans and need breaks too. No one is in the gym the entire day and night. All athletes have some free time on their hands and they all spend it differently. This is a stupid way to critique a player when you have no information on how hard he works.

Lebron is out here doing shows, movies ect. He works super hard.

Stop treating athletes like that.


Treating them like what? They make millions to be in shape for basketball. I don’t think he’s talking about working on their game 24/7.

He’s saying the team doesn’t work hard because of Oshae’s vlogs. Thats a stupid assumption to make based on vlogs.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#108 » by ItsDanger » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:02 pm

Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Once a player hits 25, he should be taking his profession a lot more seriously. No excuses. Watching Oshae's vlog a bit on YT, my impression is not a good one of the team in general (Yes, its not a great example but you can get a great indication). I know people older than them with families, full time jobs, who work harder than these dudes. I don't want to hear the BS. Prove it. You have 3 months off again, all the resources you need to improve your games. Get off your ass and work. Focus on skills and video only.

You think they are working out and working on their game 24/7? They are humans and need breaks too. No one is in the gym the entire day and night. All athletes have some free time on their hands and they all spend it differently. This is a stupid way to critique a player when you have no information on how hard he works.

Lebron is out here doing shows, movies ect. He works super hard.

Stop treating athletes like that.

Not 24/7. I expect 10/5 at least. There's a lot you can learn just from just video. There are limits to physical aspects time wise but skills can be improved without massive exertion on your body. Do I base it 100% on a vlog? Of course not. I base it on my own experience primarily and there are indicators that you can observe very easily.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#109 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:32 pm

Guy who watches some Gleaguers vlog probably isn't that hard of a worker, either.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#110 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:44 pm

Off-season plan:

Norm to Sacramento for Richuan Holmes + #35. Sacramento will need to replace Bogdanovic and we'll need to replace Ibaka.

Re-sign Gasol for 1 year, cost doesn't matter too much, whatever gets it done.
Re-sign Fred in the low 20ish range for 4.

Draft night package #29 + #35 to slide up for any of the scoring guards available that I like (Dotson, RJ Hampton, Terry, Maledon).

Next year's rotation is something like

Gasol/Holmes/Hernandez
Siakam/Stanimal/Brissett
OG/McCaw/Watson
Fred/TD/Thomas
Kyle/rookie guard

Expect more ppg out of OG/TD/Fred, and some decline with Kyle.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#111 » by OAKLEY_2 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:14 pm

Raptors_128 wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Raptors_128 wrote:
FVV is not an overpay since he’s a UFA. This deal only happens if FVV wants to go to Indiana and we help him get there. We don’t have a choice in where he goes.

FVV on a ~$23-25 mill per year contract is not a good trade piece. He becomes a negative asset like Tobias Harris. We would have to attach assets to move him or have to take on a worse contract to get something back. I don’t want to go that route. Let him walk.

I think we’re kidding ourselves if we expect him to sign a $18-20 mill per year contract. He’ll get every penny he’s worth. That’s just who he is and no one can fault him for that.


S+T's are hard to make work for the team "losing" the free agent. It may though be easier given the financial state of NBA teams. More realistic outcome is Delon Wright and a second round pick plus TPE or difference in salary. That way Masai assists Fred to get more money. We need scoring and we need wing depth but we need to fill the hole at point guard if FVV goes. I think we are better retaining Serge than Fred to be quite honest for being competitive. Or at least so as long as we like having the GOAT Lowry around. A norm and pick deal to upgrade the two would be my main deal but you have to be looking for someone clearly better than Norm for this team. They may not exist.


Yeah I don’t know if Delon and a 2nd is the move because Dallas is going to try to salary dump Delon imo. He makes like $9 mill for the next 2-3 seasons and didn’t even play for them in the playoffs, he was a healthy scratch.

I want at least a first and expiring salary. If we can’t get a deal like that, Fred can go to a rebuilding team with cap space like the Pistons or the Knicks. We should only help him get to where he wants to go if we get something back that’s actually valuable.


Agreed but S+Ts only convert to ok talent and 2nd rounders coming back. Does not surprise me Delon is idle in the Doncic show. He is more valuable than being a passenger outside their plans.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#112 » by DonDoolie » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:42 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:Off-season plan:

Norm to Sacramento for Richuan Holmes + #35. Sacramento will need to replace Bogdanovic and we'll need to replace Ibaka.

Re-sign Gasol for 1 year, cost doesn't matter too much, whatever gets it done.
Re-sign Fred in the low 20ish range for 4.

Draft night package #29 + #35 to slide up for any of the scoring guards available that I like (Dotson, RJ Hampton, Terry, Maledon).

Next year's rotation is something like

Gasol/Holmes/Hernandez
Siakam/Stanimal/Brissett
OG/McCaw/Watson
Fred/TD/Thomas
Kyle/rookie guard

Expect more ppg out of OG/TD/Fred, and some decline with Kyle.



If youre paying 20+ million to fred you already lost the off-season
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#113 » by Raptors_128 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:53 pm

dalton749 wrote:
Raptors_128 wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:
My brother, you would rather:

1) take on Horford who is almost a full decade older than Wiggins and is declining, AND

2) take the 21st pick instead of the 2nd overall pick? Thybulle does not come close to covering the gap between those two picks

Not to mention, a scoring wing will always have some kind of value in the league, not mention the chance he may increase his value here. Teams like Charlotte, NYK, Chicago & Detroit could use a guy like that, should we choose to move him down the road.

Idk. I'm not a huge fan of Wiggins but there's way too much potential upside to a deal like this, which is really what we should be focusing on since there's a very real chance we'll be rebuilding soon.


Man if you thought Wiggins would be hard to move, Horford would be next to impossible.

Giving Masai and this organization a #2 pick which is basically the rights to any player in the draft (minus whoever gets taken 1st) is a dream. It’s a bad draft but, there’s always a few stars somewhere in there. This is our best chance to get a franchise changing talent or asset.



The warriors aren’t dealing wiggins and 2 for Lowry or horford, I don’t even see how that is realistic which is why I choose to ignore it. Lowry isn’t a good enough fit there and is on a 1 year deal. There’s no justifying that. Horford is a good fit but there’s no chance they give up 2 to get it done because wiggins also fills a need there right now. The warriors would want Pascal from us to do that deal.

Horford is still a good player and would fit on our roster very well, he is to centers what Lowry is to point guards. I don’t put much stock in a down year with a horrible fit and having to come off the bench. His contract isn’t great and may make things more difficult if giannis wants to come here but you cross that path when it comes.

He solidifies our lineup and helps us remain competitive while rebuilding where as wiggins is just a worse version of powell.

Bottom line is if you trade Lowry, it’s done with his best intentions in mind, you don’t just ship him off to the highest bidder. A philly deal clearly does that and we get a few minor assets while ticking off most of our boxes as well.

Fvv/TD
Powell/??
OG/??
Pascal/??
Horford/ibaka hopefully

The other young guys can compete for roles along with the incoming draft picks.


If your issue is that the value isn’t there for the Warriors to do it, I get that. It’s a valid argument. I’m sure they would want Pascal but, he’s worth a lot more than Wiggins and #2 in this draft even after his poor playoff showing.

Taking on Al Horford does nothing for us. We ruin our cap flexibility. Siakam is making 30, Horford is making 30, and Fred will probably be making 25. That’s such a mediocre roster and you’re now capped out. No one is taking on Al Horford for any reason that I can think of without giving back another bad contract. Creating space for Giannis with those contracts is next to impossible. We would be out on Giannis even before getting a meeting with him.

If we are moving Kyle, it’s to get younger and better for the future. There’s no point in moving Kyle and then try to win-now with 34 year old Al Horford. I feel Kyle going to Philly would be a dream come true for him. He’s always repping Philly because it’s home. That’s one of the main reasons I really like the deal if it’s available.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#114 » by OAKLEY_2 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:04 pm

HomieOmey wrote:
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
nabbs wrote:

I think both are gone (Gasol, Ibaka).


Yeah, really curious to see what he does at C and SG if VanVleet isn't re-signed.


If both walk, I can see us giving Jakob a call. Despite some solid D, he never really got a chance with the Spurs. Don't think he earned himself a huge pay day, so could end up being a huge bargain too. We already know him and Siakm loved playing together.


If we sign bench mob Freddy for big dough I could easily see us walking from the two highly paid champion bigs. Jakob? He would be huge just to inflate Paskal's sails. You hand him the starter's job and say to them both we have given you two the keys so make Rapz nation proud. Jak was a great cog who could, if ever asked, get cheap easy buckets. Casey wasn't good for Jakob. Too much JV set me screens young man.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#115 » by OAKLEY_2 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:26 am

Trying to think of the amount Spurs wouldn't match. 12 mil for Jakob? Need him back.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#116 » by JerryWestGold » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:02 pm

Victor Oladipo: I feel like he can be had. There were issues regarding they would play in the bubble or not, Pacers DO NOT want to pay him 20+ * (they dont want to go to luxury tax), they have brogdon sabo and turner each at around 20 mill a yr.

I feel like Powell, and a filler can get it done. They get a cheaper asset and rotation player.

Im not super crazy about VO but realistically, but hes going into a contract year, so he will be motivated. Beal would be perfect but we have nothing to get that done.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#117 » by HomieOmey » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:33 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
HomieOmey wrote:
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
Yeah, really curious to see what he does at C and SG if VanVleet isn't re-signed.


If both walk, I can see us giving Jakob a call. Despite some solid D, he never really got a chance with the Spurs. Don't think he earned himself a huge pay day, so could end up being a huge bargain too. We already know him and Siakm loved playing together.


If we sign bench mob Freddy for big dough I could easily see us walking from the two highly paid champion bigs. Jakob? He would be huge just to inflate Paskal's sails. You hand him the starter's job and say to them both we have given you two the keys so make Rapz nation proud. Jak was a great cog who could, if ever asked, get cheap easy buckets. Casey wasn't good for Jakob. Too much JV set me screens young man.


That's what I'm thinking. He'd be great of Siakm and a couple great games here and there, but he's the kind of big we wouldn't feel bad if we sat him in big minutes like we did Ibaka against Boston this series. He could end up being a bargain too, but if the Spurs have the ability to match I'm not sure we could get him for the bargain I'd want.
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#118 » by sycammer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:25 pm

Let’s name the top 3 targets of which team in both conferences

That will simply things for us
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#119 » by Son Goku 25 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:32 pm

Lol bring Demar home?
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Re: Official Toronto Raptors Offseason Thread 

Post#120 » by nabbs » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:33 pm

Everyone has to readjust their plans. Pascal's 2nd team nod means we lose 3 mil in cap space.

We are down to 17 mil to resign Fred. Anything else is over the cap
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2018 My Top Guys (no particular order): Doncic, JJJ, Zhaire Smith, Miles Bridges, Knox, Wendell, Bamba, Ayton, Sexton, Brown, Huerter, Okogie, Svi,

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