Africans in North America

[mjd58]

Is there a potential - and so far under-acknowledged - problem with African players playing in North America?

It's a well known scientific fact that the human body is interpenetrated by the bacteria and viruses that make up the material environment around it. Every continent on this planet has its own particular ecology of flora (plants), fauna (animals), fungi, bacteria and viruses. Every organism is basically a system of complex biophysical feedback loops which have learned to maximize and optimize the amount of usable energy it can extract from these relationships; some bacteria are positive, others negative; some viruses contribute DNA sequences to help repair the cells of plants, animals and bacteria, while others systematically exploit the cell to create more copies of itself.

For hundreds of years, interactions between Europe and North America - both in the North Hemisphere - has created a sort of 'levelling out' of differences between the biomes of the two continents. Similarly, but on a lesser scale, there have been regular interactions between humans in South America and Europe, Australia, Europe and North America, and Asia, Europe, Australia and North America. The outlier both in terms of ecology and even more so in human interactions is the African continent.

Both Joel Embiid and Pascal Siakam have personally complained about their energy levels, and this is also apparent to anyone paying attention to their game. Is it possible, perhaps, that the bodies of Embiid and Siakam, adapted to the biomes - viruses in particular - of Africa, have immune systems that work "harder" to deal with the microbiotic ecologies of North America, such that they have a harder time producing an equivalent energy for muscular/neurological activity relative to players born and raised in North America and Europe?

This issue has gone completely under the radar - I have never heard the issue brought up once - yet it is an entirely legitimate issue to acknowledge that is fully supported by the results of biological and ecological sciences. Physical systems have to adapt to new climates. The body of Pascal and Joel grew up and became 'attuned' to decode the particular physicochemical structures of the environments they evolved within. When they were plucked out of Western Africa and brought to the United States, their bodies had to learn a whole new language - a new "biosemiotics". It's hardly surprising then that when push comes to shove, both Pascal and Joel demonstrate issues with maintaining focus i.e. seem to be more constrained, which, from a homeostatic perspective, can be made more intelligible when we recognize that their bodies are performing 'work' (i.e. are thermodynamically 'dissipating energy') by events that North American and European bodies are

If this thesis is correct, what does this mean for the Toronto Raptors and their expectation that Masai Ujiri will provide us a steady stream of "giants" from Africa? Is it perhaps only to be expected that, relative to North America/European players putting in an equivalent amount of work, that African players will necessarily fare more poorly? That focus - mental fatigue - will be a perennial issue for them? I know people will - and should - cite Hakeem Olujuwan as an exception; and indeed, what I am suggesting should not be taken as an ironclad law that precludes success. But it should, I think, provide food for thought, at least in acknowledging that African players seem to be hamstrung by difficulties that North American and European players have to a lesser extent - namely, bodies that are 'fitted' to different microbiomes. The net effect is that it impacts their day to day energy levels i.e. makes them more prone to mental fatigue and loss of focus.

I do not know how this thesis would fare in the other sport that Africans do well in: European football. Are there also energy/fatigue problems here as well? I don't follow this sport enough to know, but it wouldn't surprise me if problems can be found here as well.

There's also the additional issue of "which part of Africa"? Africa's a massive continent, making the North very different from the south, and the west very different from the East. Because of the transactions between North America and Europe, there is naturally more parity in the microbiota we carry over with us than would exist between western Africa and North America.

In any case, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers with this thread, but only trying to spread awareness of a subject matter that could prove relevant as more and more Africans make their way to the NBA in the coming decades.

[PRESTIGE]

I can honestly say I have never seen a thread like this in all my time on this board. You have rendered this one speechless.

If you have evidence in the form of scientific research, then by all means provide it.

[Raps in 4]

[Troubadour]

Get this racist **** off of the forum. Moderators have failed in every respect on this issue. Disgusting.

Never thought this forum would be home to racist pseudoscience. Shameful that this is on this page and shame on this fan base for not stamping this out.

Disgraceful ****.

[mjd58]

I can honestly say I have never seen a thread like this in all my time on this board. You have rendered this one speechless.

If you have evidence in the form of scientific research, then by all means provide it.

I don't have any research to provide - at least nothing that has to do with human beings. But the overall idea - of an animal being taken out of one physical context and put into another physical context, and the 'dissonance' it creates, at least at the immunological level where the organism is interacting with the microbiota of the new environment, is hardly new.

The thread is merely posing a question, rather than making any blanket assertions as to whether or not a physical organism like a human can adapt sufficiently to the new climate such that it can be rendered equivalent to the people born and raised in that climate.

Hakeem Olujuwan definitely shows that it is possible. But others indicate that perhaps 'energy issues' i.e. focus and fatigue, might be related to the way their immune systems are adapted to very different physical environments from the ones they're currently operating within. I am aware that most people aren't aware of this, but our nervous systems and muscular systems, relative to our digestive systems and immune systems, are secondary - not primary. We're only as strong as our weakest links. If our stomachs (i.e. diet) or immune systems (i.e. adaptedness to the enviornment) are off, so are our energy levels.

[Ivre]

Wow. This is some highly speculative and wordy ideology. To write that much without any listed evidence is dedicated. I’m surprised the author didn’t reference the shape of the African head or some other Phrenological Crap.

As Akbar said, “it’s a trap”

[720]

Boston fans next level.

[mjd58]

Get this racist **** off of the forum. Moderators have failed in every respect on this issue. Disgusting.

Never thought this forum would be home to racist pseudoscience. Shameful that this is on this page and shame on this fan base for not stamping this out.

Disgraceful ****.

Can you freaking relax? What a histrionic response!

Holy ****. There is nothing remotely racist about what I'm asking. These sorts of questions are asked all the time about other organisms. Try thinking before you fly off the handle.

Organisms are adapted to different contexts. That's how nature works. Our bodies express the ecology of the relationships between our bodies and the atmosphere and other life forms it interfaces with.

[Troubadour]

We don’t deserve this team if this is how the fan base dehumanizes the players. You look at two players, elite athletes and best in the world at what they do, and speculate that their African heritage explains what exactly? Keep your racist ramblings to yourself or better yet, educate yourself and stop being so ignorant. Don’t call yourself a Raptors fan if that’s how you feel about people.

Moderators need to do way more to solve this issue. I see them contributing to the problem more than addrsssing it

[icoholic]

I go to Africa a lot, and the first few years, I ran into a bunch of gastro issues... I don't have any issues anymore. Your body gets used to it... Siakam has been in North America long enough to be over any issues.

This isn't War of the Worlds.

[mjd58]

Wow. This is some highly speculative and wordy ideology. To write that much without any listed evidence is dedicated. I’m surprised the author didn’t reference the shape of the African head or some other Phrenological Crap.

As Akbar said, “it’s a trap”

What is difficult about what I suggested?

The body is an integrated system of interacting components. These components in turn are synchronized with the external environment - with the atmosphere, for instance. Do you deny climate change? What I'm writing is no more different than claiming taht the changing co2 composition in the atmosphere will induce a mass die off of life forms that are synchronized to operate in certain temperature ranges.

The issue, clearly, is literacy.

I really do hope the moderators here have a tolerance for intellectual conversations that are relevant to the issue being suggested by this thread. I LOVE Pascal Siakam the person, and want him very much to succeed; I am also fairly educated in the biological, ecological and psychological sciences, so I'm generally concerned that energy/fatigue issues could exist because of discrepancies between the African and North American micriobiota.

Similar problems could be plausibly claimed for South America and North America.

[Jcity08]

What rigorous model have your theory of the "Afirican microbiology" having an effect on macro scale activities like basketball went through? What reference to existing data do you have to provide? Articles, names, experiments?

If not, you crafted a really long pile of bull and we're not buying.

Not going to lie, I might start excusing my poor athletic career, in particular basketball, to my foreign African microbes. Forced me into a career of I.T. it did.

[mjd58]

I go to Africa a lot, and the first few years, I ran into a bunch of gastro issues... I don't have any issues anymore. Your body gets used to it... Siakam has been in North America long enough to be over any issues.

This isn't War of the Worlds.

Thank you for the response.

Do you think, perhaps, there might be a subtler range for elite athletes? For instance, your not working your body the way Siakam and Embiid are, so maybe the harder you work one system (muscular system), the redundancy of another system (the immune system) becomes less and less?

One possibility in the case of Hakeem for why he might have done better relative to Siakam and Embiid is that he is a Muslim, and his Halal diet might have provided him the extra advantage.

[Troubadour]

Wow. This is some highly speculative and wordy ideology. To write that much without any listed evidence is dedicated. I’m surprised the author didn’t reference the shape of the African head or some other Phrenological Crap.

As Akbar said, “it’s a trap”

What is difficult about what I suggested?

The body is an integrated system of interacting components. These components in turn are synchronized with the external environment - with the atmosphere, for instance. Do you deny climate change? What I'm writing is no more different than claiming taht the changing co2 composition in the atmosphere will induce a mass die off of life forms that are synchronized to operate in certain temperature ranges.

The issue, clearly, is literacy.

I really do hope the moderators here have a tolerance for intellectual conversations that are relevant to the issue being suggested by this thread. I LOVE Pascal Siakam the person, and want him very much to succeed; I am also fairly educated in the biological, ecological and psychological sciences, so I'm generally concerned that energy/fatigue issues could exist because of discrepancies between the African and North American micriobiota.

Similar problems could be plausibly claimed for South America and North America.

What is intellectual about your baseless speculation on two athletes? You’re ignorant and pass off your dehumanizing views of African people as scientific inquiry. It’s pathetic and you should be embarrassed

[icoholic]

I go to Africa a lot, and the first few years, I ran into a bunch of gastro issues... I don't have any issues anymore. Your body gets used to it... Siakam has been in North America long enough to be over any issues.

This isn't War of the Worlds.

Thank you for the response.

Do you think, perhaps, there might be a subtler range for elite athletes? For instance, your not working your body the way Siakam and Embiid are, so maybe the harder you work one system (muscular system), the redundancy of another system (the immune system) becomes less and less?

One possibility in the case of Hakeem for why he might have done better relative to Siakam and Embiid is that he is a Muslim, and his Halal diet might have provided him the extra advantage.

No. Africans have have been playing professional soccer all over the world for decades.

[Dennis 37]

Just like Covid, I am not touching this.

Watch on YouTube

[Troubadour]

I go to Africa a lot, and the first few years, I ran into a bunch of gastro issues... I don't have any issues anymore. Your body gets used to it... Siakam has been in North America long enough to be over any issues.

This isn't War of the Worlds.

Thank you for the response.

Do you think, perhaps, there might be a subtler range for elite athletes? For instance, your not working your body the way Siakam and Embiid are, so maybe the harder you work one system (muscular system), the redundancy of another system (the immune system) becomes less and less?

One possibility in the case of Hakeem for why he might have done better relative to Siakam and Embiid is that he is a Muslim, and his Halal diet might have provided him the extra advantage.

I mean this with every fibre of my being. Shut the **** up. I am confident you are in no way qualified to speculate on how your country of origin may impact your stamina. This is not basketball talk. This is dehumanizing garbage not even passing as scientific inquiry.

[Troubadour]

Mods, you’re asleep at the wheel. This forum has long been a cesspool for racist garbage and now there are threads openly speculating about how Africans may be worse at basketball as a result of where they are from.

This fan base has disappointed me to no end since Friday.

[Buddythefriend]

This thread is perfectly fine. Stop seeking out reasons to be offended. If anything it's continentist, but not racist.

[Troubadour]

I go to Africa a lot, and the first few years, I ran into a bunch of gastro issues... I don't have any issues anymore. Your body gets used to it... Siakam has been in North America long enough to be over any issues.

This isn't War of the Worlds.

Thank you for the response.

Do you think, perhaps, there might be a subtler range for elite athletes? For instance, your not working your body the way Siakam and Embiid are, so maybe the harder you work one system (muscular system), the redundancy of another system (the immune system) becomes less and less?

One possibility in the case of Hakeem for why he might have done better relative to Siakam and Embiid is that he is a Muslim, and his Halal diet might have provided him the extra advantage.

Einstein, where are you now? You were happy to posit your basketball eugenics theories a moment ago and now you’re being challenged for being an out and out racist. Not interested in intellectual debate now? You’re racist and you’re a disgrace to the fan base.