Kevin Willis wrote: UcanUwill wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:Science disproves that though. The universe is full of laws and rules that are certain. A world full of randomness and chance would result in situations like spontaneous combustion. People would be walking around and turning to flaming because that fits the notion of randomness. But science has demonstrated the world has order, it has structure, it has lifecycles, it has evolution. We don't see animals devolving for example - why is that? Why aren't we going back to an amoeba?
science disproves what exactly, I dont really understand your point? From what I know, most science laws came to be in the first moments of big bang, in different universes, some science laws like speed of light might differ. And of course there are scientific laws, because it suppose to be for existence to exist, but thats not the reason why we deevolve, animals do not deevolve because it makes no sense, this is not about scietific law of any kind, its about the passage of time, everything tries to adapt over time or it dies out.
We do exist in 4D, there is X axis, Y axis, Z axis and then there is time, time is the 4th. dimension, we are 3 dimensional beings constantly moving in 4 dimensional world, but as 3 dimensional beings, we cant perceive time dimension, time is constantly twisting and turning, but we cant see that, jus like 2dimesional being wouldnt be able to see Z axis.
Yes I agree science laws always existed. That is my point. It didn't evolve or change they were here from the moment of the big bang. In a world of supposed randomness why would science laws themselves not be random? In terms of scientific laws that's my point again. Law or rules or patterns need to be designed and fixed. What and who designed and fixed them? In terms of what it would be like in different universes having differing speed of light that would be irrelevant. Whomever designed that universe would have created rules and laws that are fixed for that universe. The whole point is to go against this theory of randomness creating who we are.
In terms of animals not devolving that is not true. If randomness existed that a series of randomness put us together then equally a series of randomness will logically pull us apart. It's random right. But logically we have an evolution structure, the body develops a system that works and makes redundant things that don't. Like our tail for example. Also if things are random why don't we see parallel tracks of single development. Single cells still exist, why don't we see them in our many years of human existing evolving. It requires some faith to believe that a single cell organism magically became multi-cellular does it not? Then why not believe that there was a higher plan in order or at the very least respect people who have that belief.
I put time into 3D. We witness and experience time but 4D is different. As you said we can't truly perceive or manipulate time dimensions and yes time is constantly twisting and turning, like around the event horizon of a black hole. Two years ago two different research groups completed very different test that concluded 4D must exist but they don't know what that is. We can't comprehend it and we lack the ability to see it. Like we know the wind is there and we know it plays a factor but we can't see it.
My point is that the universe is unlikely just randomness. The fact we even have dimensions suggest planning and thought. Science itself supports that structure, plan or design but we're too early to fully understand. And if there is structure and design then there is most likely a designer or Creator and it takes just as much faith to believe we're a mixture of random chance that only happened once among the billions of years and trillions of stars and planets of the universe existence than it does to believe there might be a method to this madness that is beyond our scope.
I think you making same thinking error I already talked about, word for word what I already said, you assume science laws are not random, well they might not be random, but they are not fixed or planned. I clearly said that evolved intelligent life will look at his world and will think that its planned or fixed, it is just so difficult for such being image existence being any different because everyone existed like that from the beginning of time. But its a false thinking laws could have been formed differently in any other random fashion, entire existence and universe would be completely different, but knowing how big and old any universe would be, life will find a way, and that life would think its random laws were fixed, and couldnt imagine it being any other way.
There were billions of billions single cell organisms, I dont know the percentage, but I imagine majority of it would not evolve ever, because evolution is fluke prospect, but if very few same type single cell organisms became 2 cell organisms, doesnt mean every organism of that species (if you even can call it that way) will automatically evolve as well. The majority of organisms will never evolve, because they developed to be in perfect environment for it already, makes sense. So it takes one organism out of billions to mutate, and sometimes that organism will bring and off spring and here you have it, now you have single cell organisms and 2 cell organisms, and thats how it all starts, and more complex organism becomes, the more prone to evolution it will be, because it will be able to explore different environments that needs adaptation and it will also be prone to impact its environment. Rat that lived 300 million years ago, evolved into primates, because it explored woods, it dug caves, it was jumping from one branch to another. Just a mutation and rat with a taller tail or limbs will find to be more adequate, in will reach taller branches, will find food easier and boom it will survive easier, its spring with inherited tail, will survive easier, it will reach the top of the trees, it will be exposed to the sun, boom, another different enviroment that over time will demand an adaptation. So its completely understandable that we have humans, we have elephants at the same time we still have single cell organism. Single cell organism never were exposed to different environments, it never made change to its environment, its irrelevant and stagnated. Its completely understandable it stagnate, it never needed to cahnge, organisms that by random changes left its environment had to change, so that is the reason why some organisms never change, while others changed a LOT.