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Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ?

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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#21 » by tecumseh18 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:07 am

ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:At times yes, at times no



I think he does better when he's not exhausted. He has a bit more lift in his jump, and so his body responds to what his brain tells him to do.

Fred was great in leading the team to a victory over the Lakers at Staples in Lowry's absence, but terrible in the 4th quarter against the Clippers the very next night. And yes, the way Nurse managed the rotations in the Celtic series, Fred was exhausted in Game 7.

Also, Fred does better when the other guard is bigger than he is.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#22 » by execoftheyear » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:20 am

yes he does especially on the defensive end. The shot selection is because of our lack of scorers and him having to take more shots than he should be taking
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#23 » by JYD » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:27 am

Looking at Fred's ball IQ when trying to figure out a limitation of his, is like telling the Rock he needs to workout more because he's not doing well in chess.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#24 » by GordanFreeman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:42 am

Defensively, his IQ is very good. Offensively it's average. His overall IQ is good. Lowry's is elite. Lebron's is otherworldly.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#25 » by casual_raps_fan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:18 am

execoftheyear wrote:yes he does especially on the defensive end. The shot selection is because of our lack of scorers and him having to take more shots than he should be taking

I feel like this problem gets magnified when Lowry is sitting on the bench. We have quite a variety of guards on the bench (Norm, Thomas, TD, McCaw) but none of them brought any value as playmakers in the playoffs. :-?
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#26 » by Young Moosehead » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 am

Offensively? It comes and goes. It drops quite a bit during high stress situations, but is generally good.

Defensively? Hell yes. He is a midget with t rex arms that leads the league in deflections and is 4th in steals per game and 12th in total steals despite being the smallest guy on the court in almost every game he plays.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#27 » by mdenny » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:08 am

He is ALWAYS in the right spot on defence. That's why he can be a crucial player on an elite defensive team with his body.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#28 » by SirKen » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:14 am

casual_raps_fan wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:yes he does especially on the defensive end. The shot selection is because of our lack of scorers and him having to take more shots than he should be taking

I feel like this problem gets magnified when Lowry is sitting on the bench. We have quite a variety of guards on the bench (Norm, Thomas, TD, McCaw) but none of them brought any value as playmakers in the playoffs. :-?


Thomas made plays every time he touched the ball. More than he got opportunities to put up shots. The problem is the team was not finding him when he was available.

I'll go out on a limb and say that Thomas is probably the second best playmaker on the team after Lowry. Go check some of his Euro highlights and how he finds the right play.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#29 » by sule » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:16 am

His 'bet on yourself' mantra is a big red flag to me. We've seen him take ill-advised shots time and time again and get tunnel vision. Paying him more would result in him feeling like he has to do more than he currently does and that will lead to more bad decision-making on his behalf. You can already see his ego bloat when he's on the court and has the ball. You don't want to inflate it anymore and end up causing the team harm.

He doesn't have the IQ to be a true floor general, and he doesn't have the size to be a problem in other facts of the game besides shooting, and even that becomes a problem when he's guarded by bigger guys.

I think his IQ is okay. Not a notably dumb player, but not a guy who you want leading a team that has playoff aspirations.

He's a good PG, but ultimately he's a stop gap for pretty much any team he goes to. That's just what the fates have likely deemed for him.

Whether we sign VanVleet or not, this team will likely experience a bit of a dropoff from this past year. If we sign FVV to the contract he thinks he deserves or other teams think he deserves, this team will handicap itself. Letting him walk might sting, but ultimately it will boost the Raptors profile among 2nd rounders and undrafted players who want to develop in a good system, and will give the Raps the flexibility they need moving forward to absorb a contract should they make any noteworthy trades.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#30 » by casual_raps_fan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:25 am

SirKen wrote:
casual_raps_fan wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:yes he does especially on the defensive end. The shot selection is because of our lack of scorers and him having to take more shots than he should be taking

I feel like this problem gets magnified when Lowry is sitting on the bench. We have quite a variety of guards on the bench (Norm, Thomas, TD, McCaw) but none of them brought any value as playmakers in the playoffs. :-?


Thomas made plays every time he touched the ball. More than he got opportunities to put up shots. The problem is the team was not finding him when he was available.

I'll go out on a limb and say that Thomas is probably the second best playmaker on the team after Lowry. Go check some of his Euro highlights and how he finds the right play.

That's a very interesting point.

I was very happy with his play in the playoffs and we got amazing value out of the minutes he played... that being said I wasn't overly excited about his potential moving forward. He's obviously an amazing shooter but if that's all he is at his size, it's a bit head scratching.

If he can offer even more offence as a secondary playmaker on top of being a lethal shooter, that could make him a very interesting player for the Raptors who are dying for playmaking.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#31 » by UneducatedFan86 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:35 am

If you want to see the difference between a franchise/max money point guard and Fred, just watch Murray. Even when his shot wasn't falling, he was still running the team and getting everyone engaged. He was putting his teammates in positions to succeed. All the top PGs can do that and that can be more important than finding your own shot.

Fred lacks that type of court vision. And when his shot doesn't fall, his impact is limited drastically. Don't get me wrong. Fred has hit some big shots and made big plays for us along the way, but the offense always looks a lot worse when he is the lead guard. He calls his own number way too often and it makes us easier to guard.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#32 » by alan_156 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:44 am

Is fred a franchise player, no. Is he worth 20 million a year effect he takes over for Lowry, yes, but he needs a star wing player (insert giannis). I hope fvv stays, we need someone to take over the reigns post Lowry era.

If Lowry chases a ring or decides to leave we need fvv to take over, TD isn't ready yet
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#33 » by mdenny » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:52 am

alan_156 wrote:Is fred a franchise player, no. Is he worth 20 million a year effect he takes over for Lowry, yes, but he needs a star wing player (insert giannis). I hope fvv stays, we need someone to take over the reigns post Lowry era.

If Lowry chases a ring or decides to leave we need fvv to take over, TD isn't ready yet



There will never be a time in which TD has anything close to Vanvleet's ball IQ.

I'm kinda happy that things have returned to normal and Fred is underrated again. He is a purely fundamental ball player. Coaches and players know the deal. He will never get his due with fans.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#34 » by Randle McMurphy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:54 am

Anyone who thinks he doesn’t likely doesn’t watch a lot of other NBA guards. He’s not Kyle Lowry but Lowry is basically genius level basketball IQ.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#35 » by sidsid » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:18 am

I think people are confusing his set of skills for IQ.

Fred's BBall IQ is fine. He's solid and knows what to do and where to be on the floor.

Fred's issue is that he's a combo guard with a bias towards scoring who is being asked to be more of pure pg in our offense.

The guy would look off Kawhi and call his own number. He doesn't have Lowry's vision for passing so that's why he ends up getting blocked at the rim more often.

It's why most would like to see him put into more of an off ball role where he isn't leaning into his liabilities as much.

That's not an IQ problem. More of a role definition problem on our team.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#36 » by Par36 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:45 am

Doesn't really matter he certainly doesn't have basketball size.

Please don't give him big money MU.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#37 » by Berserk_Raptor » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:49 am

He's a very intelligent guy and plays good D, and of course he's part of a championship team any day, problem is we tried to force him carry us in crunch time (because Pascal choked big time). FVV is good at what he is.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#38 » by vaff87 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:57 am

I think so. But when your other PG has one of the highest basketball IQ’s in the league, he looks worse by comparison.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#39 » by Young Moosehead » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:54 pm

sidsid wrote:I think people are confusing his set of skills for IQ.

Fred's BBall IQ is fine. He's solid and knows what to do and where to be on the floor.

Fred's issue is that he's a combo guard with a bias towards scoring who is being asked to be more of pure pg in our offense.

The guy would look off Kawhi and call his own number. He doesn't have Lowry's vision for passing so that's why he ends up getting blocked at the rim more often.

It's why most would like to see him put into more of an off ball role where he isn't leaning into his liabilities as much.

That's not an IQ problem. More of a role definition problem on our team.


True, its why he worked so well with Delon Wright. They could switch their roles. FVV could handle the shooting responsibility of the 2 and cover the 1 on D. Delon could distribute at the 1, then use his size to switch to the 2 on D.

If we are going to lay out the big money for Fred we need a rich man's Delon as his back court mate. I think that is what they spent so much time trying to develop McCaw.
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Re: Does Fvv have a high basketball IQ ? 

Post#40 » by StopitLeo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:52 pm

TRik wrote:He's short and not that athletic. He's only in the NBA because of his superior bball IQ. Bad decision on his last shot this season, doesn't mean he suddenly became an idiot.


I agree.

He needs to improve two parts of his offense IMO: 1)pick & roll play where he hits the roll man and 2) floaters (he added some mid-range pull-ups but floaters in the lane would help his game).

That last shot was a poor one but I don't think anyone else could have created a shot. Pascal had been terrible and Norm just made that terrible decision to go 1-on-3 and get blocked. We also saw his attempt at the end of a game recently.

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