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Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back

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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#61 » by Danny1616 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:04 pm

ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:i think we all respect him. nobody just liked his decision to leave us cause obviously, it wouldve been the first time we ever actually signed an actual proven superstar, other than maybe vince. our team has been treadmilling for too long and its just not fair so people like me are maybe just annoyed and impatient. we couldve had vince and t-mac, nope. we had to deal with bargnani's atrocity, we had to deal with losing bosh, then deal with the rudy gay situation where i thought we wouldve been a top team, then we were all tricked by bruno, thinking he was the next kevin durant, then we were patient with the lowry/demar dynamic duo never working, along with many more that i have missed. one championship does not do enough in my opinion. i thought it was going to be a start if anything but then kawhi had to be dramatic and wanted to go "work at home". we never catch a damn break. at this point its giannis or we r fked for another 20 years


VC was never a true superstar. He was the most exciting player in the league but he never was a top 5 player.

We managed to sign Lowry and Demar to multiple extensions so that myth that we can't sign stars was exaggerated.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#62 » by ImaBeatDatAzz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:06 pm

TheAlchemist wrote:He hobbled on one leg to win us a championship.

He never complained while he was here that he wanted to leave. He focused on rehabbing his leg so that he can play.

After the final victory, he couldn't WALK.

He left it all out on the court for us and won the finals MVP, brought a chip to this city.

You guys are disrespectful and ungrateful.

Wish you where here for the Vince carter days to understand what a garbage player is.

I completely agree with OP.

ok chill vince wasnt garbage, tf. mention bargnani or something, not vince
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#63 » by kalel123 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 pm

Loving and appreciating Kawhi Leonard and what he did for us last year is a separate thing to rooting against him and his team this year. His losing shows that it wasn't his championship alone and that it was a team effort. We all knew this but now it's out there for all to see. Had Clippers won, we would've never heard the end of it. Now we are justified.

Yes, Kawhi did carry us through stretches and got us over the hump but once the rest of the team was over that hump and he got damaged doing it, it was as much rest of the team carrying him as him carrying us at the end. Yes, I'd gladly take him back and yes, I'd still gladly retire his jersey over anyone else save maybe Kyle Lowry. He got us that ring and he single-handedly got us over that hump. But I still enjoyed the heck out of the embarrassment he and his team went through last night.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#64 » by NUCKER101 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:15 pm

Inevitable wrote:Glad he put us over the edge but now I hope he never wins again. Some of you stans don’t remember those slick comments he made about Nurse or how he felt we didn’t have enough to win.

Enjoy that cursed franchise!


What did he say about Nurse?
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#65 » by ImaBeatDatAzz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:19 pm

Danny1616 wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:i think we all respect him. nobody just liked his decision to leave us cause obviously, it wouldve been the first time we ever actually signed an actual proven superstar, other than maybe vince. our team has been treadmilling for too long and its just not fair so people like me are maybe just annoyed and impatient. we couldve had vince and t-mac, nope. we had to deal with bargnani's atrocity, we had to deal with losing bosh, then deal with the rudy gay situation where i thought we wouldve been a top team, then we were all tricked by bruno, thinking he was the next kevin durant, then we were patient with the lowry/demar dynamic duo never working, along with many more that i have missed. one championship does not do enough in my opinion. i thought it was going to be a start if anything but then kawhi had to be dramatic and wanted to go "work at home". we never catch a damn break. at this point its giannis or we r fked for another 20 years


VC was never a true superstar. He was the most exciting player in the league but he never was a top 5 player.

We managed to sign Lowry and Demar to multiple extensions so that myth that we can't sign stars was exaggerated.

i mean many considered him to be superstar level during his prime with us, its arguable tho. the league was way too competitive during the 2000s, also... lowry and demar arent superstar level at all, so they dont count. im talking about top 15 player in the league level, we have never kept one, and i think we are the only team in league that has NEVER kept/signed one
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#66 » by Coco Costanza » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:24 pm

PRESTIGE wrote:-He never wanted to be here in the first place

-He never opened up or bonded with the rest of the team during his lone season

-He load managed solely to protect himself and didn’t mind sitting out a quarter of the season to the detriment of the team

-He had no intention of staying but dragged out the free agent process until he could join forces with a fake superstar

-He left a team that won him a ring and catered to his every demand

-He joined the team that was blatantly tampering in order to woo him

-He never appreciated the fact that he was coached by the best coach in the NBA

-He never saw the benefit of staying with the best GM in the league

Him and his team treated his entire tenure here like we were a backwater lottery team that was lucky to have him even suit up. We can appreciate what he did but that doesn’t make him immune from criticism. It was beautiful to see his team lose. I hope it humbles him. I have a feeling later on in his career he’ll look wistfully back with regret and think of all the ‘What Ifs’ that came from his decision.


I completely agree, particularly with the bolded part. I said this in a thread on the general board, but Kawhi was lucky to be traded to Toronto. He could have easily been traded to the Knicks, or Kings, or some other, non competitive team, and he doesn't win a championship last season.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#67 » by KL78192020 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:25 pm

Berserk_Raptor wrote:Had to make this thread because I saw a lot of you being ungrateful. Have you forgotten he won us the title and how hard the road to the finals was last year?
The guy deserves his jersey in the rafters and of course this organization would welcome him with arms wide open.

I dont care if he had a lot of demands and whims to sign with us, hes effing Kawhi Leonard, an effing superstar, you got it??!!! He's entitled to demand anything he wants, have you forgotten how much money the organization made off the championship??

I dont know if Clippers medical staff is as good as the raps' but hopefully Kawhi realizes he had great treatments during his tenure with us, and if he ever wants to come back, good for him.


You can appreciate all the good times you had with your ex, but you're not going to cheer on the man she left you for. You can still be bitter about that. Pretty much in a nutshell how fans feel.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#68 » by PT416 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:27 pm

Bruh we were so grateful for Kawhi from beginning to end and even when he came back we gave him nothing but love. If anything he was the ungrateful one saying things like "I haven't ever played with a player of Paul George's calibre" (Duncan, Ginobili, Lowry, Parker, Siakam). "I wanna play with Doc Rivers he's a hall of fame coach". "Trade whoever for Paul George and I'll consider staying".
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#69 » by Westside Gunn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:28 pm

I was more angry with his friends than the player himself. They completely made the situation messy.

He has my respect. I don't blame the guy for going home. There are people I've met here in Mississauga that haven't went beyond Mississauga. Just the way some people are.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#70 » by ropjhk » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:28 pm

Still have tons of respect and gratitude for Kawhi, but his weaknesses were exposed.

Kawhi is not a leader. He doesn't make his teammates better. He is a weapon that has to be used in combination with the right support and leadership. The Raptors also got exposed as a team that lacked a reliable first option scoring weapon. Combine the two together and you get an amazing championship contender.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#71 » by Danny1616 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:34 pm

ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:i think we all respect him. nobody just liked his decision to leave us cause obviously, it wouldve been the first time we ever actually signed an actual proven superstar, other than maybe vince. our team has been treadmilling for too long and its just not fair so people like me are maybe just annoyed and impatient. we couldve had vince and t-mac, nope. we had to deal with bargnani's atrocity, we had to deal with losing bosh, then deal with the rudy gay situation where i thought we wouldve been a top team, then we were all tricked by bruno, thinking he was the next kevin durant, then we were patient with the lowry/demar dynamic duo never working, along with many more that i have missed. one championship does not do enough in my opinion. i thought it was going to be a start if anything but then kawhi had to be dramatic and wanted to go "work at home". we never catch a damn break. at this point its giannis or we r fked for another 20 years


VC was never a true superstar. He was the most exciting player in the league but he never was a top 5 player.

We managed to sign Lowry and Demar to multiple extensions so that myth that we can't sign stars was exaggerated.

i mean many considered him to be superstar level during his prime with us, its arguable tho. the league was way too competitive during the 2000s, also... lowry and demar arent superstar level at all, so they dont count. im talking about top 15 player in the league level, we have never kept one, and i think we are the only team in league that has NEVER kept/signed one


We perceived him as a "superstar" only because we were a new organization that did not have a winning season until VC arrived. VC was really a top 10-15 for his short lived prime between 1999-2001. What VC had that Lowry and Demar did not have had was global popularity. VC was the most exciting/popular player in the NBA who led the league in all-star votes for a few seasons.

Actually the Eastern Conference was terrible in the early 2000s, it was not that competitive. The Western Conference was very competitive.

I would take prime Lowry over prime VC any day of the week. Lowry is significantly better defensively, a better facilitator, knows how to run an offense, and is still a very good scorer. Lowry has consistently been a top 10 player in real plus minus every single season.

It's no coincidence that VC only led the Raptors to two winning seasons and we never won over 47 games with him. Meanwhile Lowry has led us to 5 straight 50+ win seasons. We also won 49 games in 2015 and 47 in 2014.

The only all-stars we've ever had were VC, Bosh, Demar, Lowry, Kawhi and Siakim.

We resigned VC in 2000 and we resigned Bosh in 2006. We just couldn't retain them for their 3rd contracts.

We managed to resign Lowry and Demar twice and resigned Siakim to a long-term contract.

So yes, us not being able to resign all-stars is a myth.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#72 » by YelloC » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:37 pm

He also dragged his decision out until the free agent market dried up leaving the Raptors with Stanley and RHJ as the best remaining signings.
Denver has been my other team for quite awhile so I was happy to see a fellow Kitchener Mans eliminate the Clippers.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#73 » by JN » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 pm

This is what I wrote on another board

"Hopefully Kawhi has the common sense though not to interfere in the GM's personnel decisions wherever he goes as a FA next time. That meddling hurt his chances at a title tremendously with the Clips and even if he had stayed with the "new" Raps with George and Westbrook. As I said above, last offseason he basically decided he was better at being a GM than people like Ujiri/Bobby Webster and whomever the Clips decision makers are.

He should have signed on somewhere and trusted them to handle the building / finishing process regarding personnel. Not force them into immediate rushed moves where his new team has no leverage and gives up unnecessary assets"
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#74 » by RapsAndJays21 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm

The world isn't black and white, so from my perspective I can respect the f*** out of what Kawhi did for us while at that same time, I can be happy to see him lose in the 2nd round.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#75 » by KrazyP » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:44 pm

Danny1616 wrote:
We perceived him as a "superstar" only because we were a new organization that did not have a winning season until VC arrived. VC was really a top 10-15 for his short lived prime between 1999-2001. What VC had that Lowry and Demar did not have had was global popularity. VC was the most exciting/popular player in the NBA who led the league in all-star votes for a few seasons.
.


This is nonsense. 2000-01 Vince was a borderline MVP.

7.2 VORP #1 OVERALL
25.0 PER #2 OVERALL (only behind Shaq)
7.6 BPM #2 OVERALL (only behind Shaq)

What player in the last 20 yrs put up those league leading advanced stats and wasn't considered a top 10 if not top 5 player overall?

Injuries after that year brought him down from MVP level to all-star level.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#76 » by JN » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:46 pm

Here is a discussion I had on a Syracuse board with someone that got triggered when I said Kawhi/Uncle Dennis had a bad offseason as the GM.

Kawhi wasn't coming to the Clippers without a second star and PG13 was the one available. Every single GM in the NBA would make that same trade in that position, every one of them. Kawhi is one of the three best players alive right now and you take him anyway you can and figure it out later.

Clippers are not vying for a title with SGA/Gallinari and picks.


#1) You are changing the narrative around. Yes I agree that you make the move you are now forced into if you are the Clippers. I am not blaming the Clippers GM for making the moves to get him. I am blaming Kawhi for making things worse off and harder for the GM.

Kawhi as pseudo "GM" is forcing the Clippers to make a trade with awful leverage (i.e it has to be done quickly over a few days) and for a player with skeptical playoff history I stated above you can trade SGA and the picks later, but let things breathe and re-establish a leverage position. If Kawhi had just signed on, and let the GM team work out something as time passed things could have worked out much better for him and the team. But when you let superstars manage your GM decisions it often does not work out for you -- but you have no choice if that is the way the superstar wants to be. You could have acquired someone this year (even Paul George) and given away much less assets in the process, and if you needed to re-tool you still have draft picks in 2020/2021 offseason... but now they have no assets this summer because they lost them all because they lacked leverage when they made the George deal.

#2) You also overlooked my point that Kawhi wanted to trash the Raptors of what was speculated to be Siakam, Lowry + Assets + Picks for George and Westbrook. That was his demand - get George and Westbrook He wanted to dismantle a team that just won the NBA title, and subsequently ran it back and went 53-19 without him and nearly made the ECF. Was that good player assessment by Kawhi? He could have stayed with the Raptors, stuck with what they have, and asked Ujiri to look into trading the younger assets and picks over the next year or two, and the results would have been much more productive for him then asking them to trade for George/Westbrook immediately. If winning was his most important thing, then why does he think he can make better personnel decisions than Masai Ujiri?

#3) Not every GM was willing to blow up their team to try to keep Kawhi. Masai did not destroy the future of the team to get a chump like Westbrook, and they are still positioned to make a run at Giannis in 2021, and still have some picks for the next 7 years unlike the Clippers.

Kawhi should have just signed on to where he thought was best and not asked teams to rush into trades and lose valuable assets in the process. Let GM's manage their team - that is what they are paid to do and are better than Uncle Dennis at it.

Outside of 2004 Pistons, who had four all stars during a down time for the depth of NBA talent, it has been proven you need a top star to win a title.


Agreed, but not sure what your point is. If your point is that you need a player like Kawhi to win -- I agree. But it doesn't help when Kawhi forces you into bad personnel decisions. Kawhi needed to be patient -- he hurt his team and his ability to win future titles tremendously by his demands in the offseason -- that is why he was a bad "GM" this year.

The clippers need to let a few guys walk, evaluate Doc (and who would be available if they booted him) and then just go back with Kawhi and PG.

And re-tool with what exactly? No cap space. No draft picks. They are likely forced to overpay Harrell.
They better make it work in 2021, because Leonard and George are not getting younger, and Kawhi unfortunately has those lingering health issues that I hope he overcomes.

The Raps fans should just be happy Kawhi came into their lives. You got your title. You beat the Dubs. Enjoy it. You aren't winning a title with Pascal and Lowry.


I am very happy with Kawhi the player and the championship. He was a total professional in Toronto and lead us to a title in 2019.

But I am not happy with the way he left -- it was very unprofessional and his demands (legal and illegal via Uncle Dennis) did not help wherever he would have chosen to go. And I am not wrong in saying that he hurt the chances of whatever team he went to tremendously this year.

That being said since the Raptors don't have George/Westbrook weighing down the cap and taking away assets, they have a lot of flexibility and picks to try to regroup by the 2022 season. (for example possibly making a run at Giannis)

The Clippers will be likely be a much bigger title contender in 2021 than the Raptors. But after that is very debatable. I am a much more happy about 2022 and beyond with the Raptors then then Clippers.

Also, I don't need to be told what I should be and should not be happy about. Thanks.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#77 » by Danny1616 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:55 pm

KrazyP wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
We perceived him as a "superstar" only because we were a new organization that did not have a winning season until VC arrived. VC was really a top 10-15 for his short lived prime between 1999-2001. What VC had that Lowry and Demar did not have had was global popularity. VC was the most exciting/popular player in the NBA who led the league in all-star votes for a few seasons.
.


This is nonsense. 2000-01 Vince was a borderline MVP.

7.2 VORP #1 OVERALL
25.0 PER #2 OVERALL (only behind Shaq)
7.6 BPM #2 OVERALL (only behind Shaq)

What player in the last 20 yrs put up those league leading advanced stats and wasn't considered a top 10 if not top 5 player overall?

Injuries after that year brought him down from MVP level to all-star level.


Okay so VC had one superstar season. But one superstar season does not make someone a legitimate superstar. You need to do that over multiple seasons.

Compare that to Lowry who has had six all-star/borderline superstar seasons.

2020 - Lowry finished 6th in RPM (Giannis 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2019 - Lowry finished 5th in RPM (Curry 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2018 - Lowry finished 1st in RPM (Curry was 2nd).
2017 - Lowry finished 4th in RPM (Curry 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2016 - Lowry finished 5th in RPM (Curry 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2015 - Lowry finished 14th in RPM.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

In terms of being an impact player there is no question Lowry has been a top 10 player over a long time span.

So yes it's a myth that we were not able to resign top tier level players. Lowry may not be as flashy as VC, but he is damn sure as effective.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#78 » by KrazyP » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:01 pm

Danny1616 wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
We perceived him as a "superstar" only because we were a new organization that did not have a winning season until VC arrived. VC was really a top 10-15 for his short lived prime between 1999-2001. What VC had that Lowry and Demar did not have had was global popularity. VC was the most exciting/popular player in the NBA who led the league in all-star votes for a few seasons.
.


This is nonsense. 2000-01 Vince was a borderline MVP.

7.2 VORP #1 OVERALL
25.0 PER #2 OVERALL (only behind Shaq)
7.6 BPM #2 OVERALL (only behind Shaq)

What player in the last 20 yrs put up those league leading advanced stats and wasn't considered a top 10 if not top 5 player overall?

Injuries after that year brought him down from MVP level to all-star level.


Okay so VC had one superstar season. But one superstar season does not make someone a legitimate superstar. You need to do that over multiple seasons.

Compare that to Lowry who has had six all-star/borderline superstar seasons.

2020 - Lowry finished 6th in RPM (Giannis 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2019 - Lowry finished 5th in RPM (Curry 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2018 - Lowry finished 1st in RPM (Curry was 2nd).
2017 - Lowry finished 4th in RPM (Curry 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2016 - Lowry finished 5th in RPM (Curry 1st, Lebron 2nd).
2015 - Lowry finished 14th in RPM.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

In terms of being an impact player there is no question Lowry has been a top 10 player over a long time span.

So yes it's a myth that we were not able to resign top tier level players.


What season did Lowry have where he was leading the league (or close to it) in PER, BPM and VORP? That comparison is just absurd.

Vince in his prime was a superstar. His injuries knocked him down to all-star.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#79 » by LJKO » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:02 pm

I said this many time I dont hate Kawhi for leaving and respect him for the Championship but clippers are FK'ING overrated
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Re: Kawhi Leonard deserves nothing but respect from this board and he would be welcome if he wants to come back 

Post#80 » by SFour » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:19 pm

I actually still like Kawhi and have a lot of respect for him....it's the rest of the Clippers players and their organization that I don't like, so I'll always find joy when guys like PG, Bev, Harrell, and Lou Will fall short in the playoffs.

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