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Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year

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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#141 » by pagal » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:49 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
pagal wrote:
will wrote:
Convenient you failed to mention Senior in the 2019 NBA Finals. Ah...that selective short term memory.


no, I maintain that I've hated him from day 1, against NJ, against Washington, every single game last year and yes, every single game this year, punctuated by every game in this last series.

I think we are entitled to our opinions - like your signature and posts overall. peace.

Such a troll.

FVV was in Wichita when we played those teams lmao


2018, the series before the cleveland sweep...scroll up.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#142 » by C_Money » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:58 am

Well christ, we can’t just keep losing players in Free Agency every year. Might just have to pay him.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#143 » by tecumseh18 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 am

UneducatedFan86 wrote:The best bet is to try to do an S&T with whatever team signs Fred. I think the Knicks and Suns are the two most likely ones. Suns could be a great fit. Knicks need a lot of help and shoring up the PG position wouldn't be the worst thing to do.

S&T ideas:
Knicks: Gibson + Smith JR. + Ntilikina + Future 2nds (2020 and 2021)
All 3 contracts are expiring in 2020-21. Gives us a chance to look at two different PGs and see if anything sticks. Gibson is a solid back up PF/C and could be used at next year's deadline. The 2020 2nd round pick is 38 and the knicks have two 2nd round picks in 2021. So They aren't giving up too much. It is more about us getting back some assets and seeing if we can turn them into anything else down the road without much risk.

Suns: Rubio + Oubre Jr. + Future 2nd.
Fred would be a great fit with Booker. It gives the Suns a starting PG that can help spread the floor and plays solid defense. He can play off Booker - much like he does here with Lowry. Depending on the contract, we'd also likely save the Suns a bit of money. We get a solid PG who gives us a bit of a stopgap between now and the future. We also get a look at Oubre Jr. and see if we can unlock something in his game.


No, we're not taking back expensive crap for a winner like Fred.

Hmm, I see PG is now on the market. Obviously, he's not a "leader". And again, would just be a rental.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#144 » by Anatomize » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:27 am

FVV is fantastic and one of my favorite Raptors, but under that contract you let him walk. Masai can replace that value with other talent at a much cheaper price, FVV can end up being over-exposed and underperforming relative to the contract in NY, you take that chance instead of handicapping yourself.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#145 » by Def Leppard » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:41 am

Jef wrote:Someone start an FVV appreciation thread.
Tehehehe this made me laugh out loud so have a lovley day. Your truely. Me

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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#146 » by ruckus » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 am

I don't feel like $22M is a ridiculous enough number for the Raptors to just walk away.

If we've learned anything from the Masai and Bobby show, its that they can trade anything for good value in return. Bargs for #9, Gay for depth, Greivis for Norm, Salmons for LouWill, Demar for Kawhi, Val for Gasol.

You sign Fred for whatever number is needed to retain him and then trade him for value down the line if necessary.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#147 » by SurgeIblocka » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:10 am

At one time Lowry was not living up to his contract, and he was not a finished product it took years to get to where he is now. Its only been a few years for Fred, i think he can improve his PG skills and lead this team, he definitely has the confidence. He needs to add to his game, learn from Lowry and take charges, play bigger than you really are. We know he has a good shot from outside he just needs to be smarter around the rim and develop a midrange game. Once he does that he could replace Kyle. Not sure I want to let him go just yet. Masai got a great return for 10 game Bargnani I am sure he can get a good return for Fred even if he is overpaid a bit If we feel he isn’t our future PG. i think Masai will keep him and give him
A shot at leading this team. Otherwise no guarantee we can get a PG as good as him from a trade or draft. For every solid PG there are many that never pan out even with size , athleticism and skills. Fred has proven many wrong and Masai may think he can continue proving this in the future.

Lets not forget the crappy PG’s we have gone through in this team from Mike James onwards. Even Calderon who some thought was better than Lowry could never lead a contender.

Fred is a champion and he shut down Curry, thats not someone you let go to save a couple of million in the cap.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#148 » by nestea » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:25 am

All the best Fred.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#149 » by Jay240 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:38 am

If its not Woj or Sham, take it with a grain of salt. Sure theres probably a good chance Knicks will make him an offer. But to assume they already have a dollar amount this far before free agency and that its been leaked. Seems like someone's trying to get some more twitter followers.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#150 » by Syd-TK3 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:50 am

The Knicks can straight up sign Fred there's no sign and trade possible.
Only Phx and unless Oubre or Mikal is involved I'm not interested
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#151 » by ImaBeatDatAzz » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:59 am

Ah sht this is not good, r we gonna lose an asset for nothing? Atleast sign and trade for oladipo. Ffs
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#152 » by Metallikid » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:12 am

Masai4PM wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:The best bet is to try to do an S&T with whatever team signs Fred. I think the Knicks and Suns are the two most likely ones. Suns could be a great fit. Knicks need a lot of help and shoring up the PG position wouldn't be the worst thing to do.

S&T ideas:
Knicks: Gibson + Smith JR. + Ntilikina + Future 2nds (2020 and 2021)
All 3 contracts are expiring in 2020-21. Gives us a chance to look at two different PGs and see if anything sticks. Gibson is a solid back up PF/C and could be used at next year's deadline. The 2020 2nd round pick is 38 and the knicks have two 2nd round picks in 2021. So They aren't giving up too much. It is more about us getting back some assets and seeing if we can turn them into anything else down the road without much risk.

Suns: Rubio + Oubre Jr. + Future 2nd.
Fred would be a great fit with Booker. It gives the Suns a starting PG that can help spread the floor and plays solid defense. He can play off Booker - much like he does here with Lowry. Depending on the contract, we'd also likely save the Suns a bit of money. We get a solid PG who gives us a bit of a stopgap between now and the future. We also get a look at Oubre Jr. and see if we can unlock something in his game.


The Suns trade is great imo and i don't think an organization like Phoenix will want to pay Rubio all that money to sit on the bench.

I don't know how, but if we can get Mitch Robinson from the Knicks, that would be a coup.


We would have to give up a 1st round pick at least to get the Rubio/Oubre trade done, and then what would we do with Rubio? Flip him to Dallas or something?
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#153 » by PhilBlackson » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:15 am

What a fitting number....deuces :wave:
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#154 » by maternal85 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:24 am

I don't believe this. This doesn't move the needle for new york. Why do this ? Also Fred is not going anywhere. A 50 win team, being out in the 2nd round, is more profitable than a lottery team with no hope. MLSE doesn't plan to go back to the lottery days.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#155 » by alan_156 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:28 am

If it's 22 Million a year you resign him, Lowry is eventually going to want to leave for a contender, we don't have anyone to replace him. Pay the man, he'll continue to improve just like he has year after year. We need a starting calibre pg for our future
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#156 » by pr0gr4m » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:44 am

Re-sign and trade him later. That's in essence asset retention. Fred is definitely worth at least 1 first round pick. Seeing the Knicks and other poorly run franchises and you can probably get two picks for FVV.

That would be great down the road as we could use picks and 2nd round developed prospects to trade for a third to put next to Giannis and Siakam if it happens.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#157 » by Masai4PM » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:49 am

Metallikid wrote:
Masai4PM wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:The best bet is to try to do an S&T with whatever team signs Fred. I think the Knicks and Suns are the two most likely ones. Suns could be a great fit. Knicks need a lot of help and shoring up the PG position wouldn't be the worst thing to do.

S&T ideas:
Knicks: Gibson + Smith JR. + Ntilikina + Future 2nds (2020 and 2021)
All 3 contracts are expiring in 2020-21. Gives us a chance to look at two different PGs and see if anything sticks. Gibson is a solid back up PF/C and could be used at next year's deadline. The 2020 2nd round pick is 38 and the knicks have two 2nd round picks in 2021. So They aren't giving up too much. It is more about us getting back some assets and seeing if we can turn them into anything else down the road without much risk.

Suns: Rubio + Oubre Jr. + Future 2nd.
Fred would be a great fit with Booker. It gives the Suns a starting PG that can help spread the floor and plays solid defense. He can play off Booker - much like he does here with Lowry. Depending on the contract, we'd also likely save the Suns a bit of money. We get a solid PG who gives us a bit of a stopgap between now and the future. We also get a look at Oubre Jr. and see if we can unlock something in his game.


The Suns trade is great imo and i don't think an organization like Phoenix will want to pay Rubio all that money to sit on the bench.

I don't know how, but if we can get Mitch Robinson from the Knicks, that would be a coup.


We would have to give up a 1st round pick at least to get the Rubio/Oubre trade done, and then what would we do with Rubio? Flip him to Dallas or something?


To give up a 1st and get Oubre is worth doing imo.

With FVV gone, we need a PG to replace him, keep Ricky.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#158 » by Metallikid » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:56 am

Masai4PM wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Masai4PM wrote:
The Suns trade is great imo and i don't think an organization like Phoenix will want to pay Rubio all that money to sit on the bench.

I don't know how, but if we can get Mitch Robinson from the Knicks, that would be a coup.


We would have to give up a 1st round pick at least to get the Rubio/Oubre trade done, and then what would we do with Rubio? Flip him to Dallas or something?


To give up a 1st and get Oubre is worth doing imo.

With FVV gone, we need a PG to replace him, keep Ricky.


Kyle is the point guard let's not get it twisted. Rubio doesn't even have year 4 FVV's offense and even though he is a very good passer I would rather have a better shooter.

EDIT - Looking at the list of point guards on Spotrac... maybe Rubio wouldn't be the worst actually.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#159 » by UneducatedFan86 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:59 am

maternal85 wrote:I don't believe this. This doesn't move the needle for new york. Why do this ? Also Fred is not going anywhere. A 50 win team, being out in the 2nd round, is more profitable than a lottery team with no hope. MLSE doesn't plan to go back to the lottery days.


But if that contract hinders you from signing someone down the road or making moves that help you become an actual contender (and you know, get out of the 2nd round) then it is an issue. I understand trying to retain an asset. But that doesn't always work out and there is no guarantee that we can move him. It is much harder to move large, newly-signed contracts without moving assets along with them (even for decent players). Which then seems like a waste.

There are desperate teams out there that want to make a splash (i.e. Knicks) and are willing to pay a lot to make it happen. That is why it isn't crazy that the Knicks would sign Fred for above his market value. Fred is also benefitting from a very poor FA class, being one of the biggest names out there, and being unrestricted. Fred's cap hold is around 17mil, I think that is a fair value for what he brings and the clear weaknesses he has. That's why I think the 17-20mil range is more than fair from the Raptors. Anything above... you're basically paying a premium for your own player.

Also, we went down the whole "a good team but not a contender route" with the Demar lead teams. A championship run or perennial contender is better than a first or second-round exit if you're looking at just a fiscal situation. So why would MLSE/Raptors FO settle for just that? It isn't like we are completely stuck if Fred leaves either. Lowry is here next year, Davis has shown flashes, 2021 FA has a ton of PGs, and there is always a trade route if worse comes to worst.

For me, it comes down to a simple question. Are Pascal and Van Vleet good enough to lead a contending team (post-Lowry) and eating up over 60mil of your cap? And I don't see it. I think Pascal will be fine and probably get better but he's probably better as a number two guy.
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Re: Knicks rumoured to offer FVV 22M per year 

Post#160 » by Reeko » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:44 am

D.Brasco wrote:Always gonna be risks in under 6' ballers. Look at what happened to IT since the Celtics.

But IT had a nearly career ending hip injury and that can happen whether you're 5'9 or 6'9.
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