Why are conference finalists using 10-man lineups?

[ratul]

In the lakers-nuggets game last night, each team used 10 players. In the Miami Heat/Boston game, Miami used 10 players and Boston used nine players.

What do you think this means about our bench?

either
a) Our bench is extremely bad
or
b) Nurse overplays his starters

I think it could be a combo of both. I still really can't believe we lost games in the playoffs principally because our guys were gassed. We were really lucky to take it to 7 with such a short rotation in hindsight, but then I wonder if we would have been swept had we used the bench.

Also, why was the bench not used more in the Brooklyn series or in the seeding games? We weren't fighting for homecourt in the seeding games and yet our starters logged heavy minutes then too.

Thoughts?

[flipside21]

I was really quite surprised that we shortened our bench to the degree we did - and yes, in game 7 we simply didn't have the gas in the tank to do that Raptors thing and will ourselves out of a huge hole ... again.

I think this is probably the one area that Nick needs to check himself on. There had to be room for Terrence Davis to get on the court. Matt Thomas was a great piece for a short stretch - there had to be another 3 minutes he could have been used better.

Overall I feel like our rotations reflected our play - the team's organizing principle seemed to be not to lose their championship . . . and we didn't have the roster to get away with that. We didn't provide any room whatsoever to have a little known player be a breakout piece, unless you count OG.

I think the very best rotation managers find a way to add an x-factor.

I haven't been watching consistently since the Raptors have been out - are there non top-7 guys making positive impact? Or is it all managing minutes?

[Kevin Willis]

Boston shortened their bench also. We did play Matt Thomas and at times everyone got to play, are bench is just not as talented as the Lakers or Nuggets.

[visionquest]

Our starters were gassed out there and it affected their shooting. All season Nurse's genius was plucking someone from the bench who changed things up and helped us to a win. It was a different hero every game. In the bubble, Nurse departed from this completely and we became a tired, predictable, turnover prone unit.

[Useyourhead]

Our starters were gassed out there and it affected their shooting. All season Nurse's genius was plucking someone from the bench who changed things up and helped us to a win. It was a different hero every game. In the bubble, Nurse departed from this completely and we became a tired, predictable, turnover prone unit.

100% agree which is why the blame for game 7 loss is shared between Pascal and Nurse. I love Nurse and glad he got extended but he made a mistake in game 7 and should have played Thomas and maybe even Davis at least 5 more minutes.

[BD006]

Boston shortened their bench also. We did play Matt Thomas and at times everyone got to play, are bench is just not as talented as the Lakers or Nuggets.

Are Morris, Craig, Dozier and Plumlee really that talented?

Matt Thomas played at most 6 mins in meaningful playing time against Boston (Game 5 blowout he played 18).

[Psubs]

Boston shortened their bench also. We did play Matt Thomas and at times everyone got to play, are bench is just not as talented as the Lakers or Nuggets.

Are Morris, Craig, Dozier and Plumlee really that talented?

Matt Thomas played at most 6 mins in meaningful playing time against Boston (Game 5 blowout he played 18).

FVV played the entire 2nd half of game 7. Matt Thomas played a little in the 1st half and was a +6 in like 4 mins. He needed to play another 3-4 mins in the 2nd half to give FVV a breather.

[Anticon]

It's all good to have this discussion, but it would be good to hear which bench guys would have matched up well against Boston. I don't see any clear advantages except for maybe RHJ and he wasn't the most reliable.

I would have like to have seen more minutes for Thomas, TD, and Boucher, if only for experience and to give the guys a break as others have said.

But we got to a game 7 by playing our championship core big minutes; that was sort of how the die was cast this year if we wanted to compete at a high level. Our bench just didn't have the experience to play more meaningful roles, as there was too much at stake to give minutes to rookies like we used to do with Fred or other guys in losing series against Cleveland.

Nurse played to win and I think he maxed us out as much as he could.

[kleatius_01]

These coaches playing checkers, Nurse is playing chess. We didn't lose to Boston because of the short rotation, it was because Pascal had a tough series and we couldn't generate enough offense.

[Anticon]

Boston shortened their bench also. We did play Matt Thomas and at times everyone got to play, are bench is just not as talented as the Lakers or Nuggets.

Are Morris, Craig, Dozier and Plumlee really that talented?

Matt Thomas played at most 6 mins in meaningful playing time against Boston (Game 5 blowout he played 18).

Both Morris and Craig have played around 20 mpg for the past couple of years now for Denver.

And Dozier and Plumlee's performance down the stretch in game 2 is exactly the reason you don't take chances with unproven/unreliable bench guys.

I tend to agree though he could have played them a bit more to keep our starters fresh for the end.

[Kevin Willis]

Boston shortened their bench also. We did play Matt Thomas and at times everyone got to play, are bench is just not as talented as the Lakers or Nuggets.

Are Morris, Craig, Dozier and Plumlee really that talented?

Matt Thomas played at most 6 mins in meaningful playing time against Boston (Game 5 blowout he played 18).

Both Morris and Craig have played around 20 mpg for the past couple of years now for Denver.

And Dozier and Plumlee's performance down the stretch in game 2 is exactly the reason you don't take chances with unproven/unreliable bench guys.

I tend to agree though he could have played them a bit more to keep our starters fresh for the end.

You beat me to a response. I think Nurse is a good coach and if he felt a bench player could be reliable in the moment he would've played them. I doubt he didn't want to give his starters more of a rest, he just had few options. If he brought in the bench against Boston's starters and they pulled away, he would be even more criticized.

Morris and Craig are pretty good players - better than two rookies like TD and Thomas. Plumlee is a better back-up than Boucher even though I doubt he will be playing end of game for the rest of this series though.

[Dennis 37]

Our starters were gassed out there and it affected their shooting. All season Nurse's genius was plucking someone from the bench who changed things up and helped us to a win. It was a different hero every game. In the bubble, Nurse departed from this completely and we became a tired, predictable, turnover prone unit.

100% agree which is why the blame for game 7 loss is shared between Pascal and Nurse. I love Nurse and glad he got extended but he made a mistake in game 7 and should have played Thomas and maybe even Davis at least 5 more minutes.

Marc showed he was washed. It wasn't Pascal that made it look like 4 vs 5 out there, it was Gasol.

[StopitLeo]

We had 7 guys average over 20 mpg against Boston.The only reason we were in a position to win any of the games was our defense and our 8, 9, 10 (Davis, Thomas, Boucher in no particular order) are not as good defensively. Davis missed all his shots and committed 3 bad fouls in Game 2. Thomas was pretty good in Game 7 but if he was in it meant Norm was out. In a close game I would have stuck with Norm.

So what about the conference finalists? Each of those teams regularly plays about 9 guys in a given game.

It's either about matchups (Lakers need Howard and McGee to defend Jokic, Boston does a lot of subs for matchup purposes) or giving guys rest (Miami and Denver each basically do the same sub pattern every game).

In the end I think it really comes down to defense for Toronto. We were so bad offensively.

[ThemCrookedRefs]

My biggest issue with our team this playoffs was the minimal use of the bench. The team's depth is the main strength and we abandoned it. Our main guys were tired and we could've used support in key stretches. Look at how much Spo trusts his young guys (Herro, Robinson, etc) and isn't afraid to veer away from playing the starters in crunch time. He goes with who is playing well. Nurse is great, but he has a tendency to play the guys he "trusts" even if they are struggling mightily. Sometimes a player just doesn't have it that night. I truly believe that our bench would've helped us advance to the next round if they were given a chance to help.

[Yeezus_]

You can't play your end of rotation players when the Celtics stagger their stars minutes really well. Stevens was attacking them every time they were on the court.

Thomas was solid but his defense required our other players to overhelp a bit too much. Davis was just lost on both ends mostly. They simply aren't ready yet.

You have to ride your best players especially when you're at a talent disadvantage to begin with.

[ItsDanger]

Nurse should have went 9 deep at least and set a high pace. That was Boston's weakness and we didn't exploit their shallow roster. Wearing an opponent down ALWAYS pays dividends in the later stages. Perhaps we did miss McCaw in the end.

[SurgeIblocka]

Its not about using your entire bench. The issue was that our star was playing worse than a bench player! When that happens you have to go into your bench especially when your star is shtn the bed all 7 games in a series! Biggest mistake of Nurse this year. Heck he didn't even use Ibaka who is starting material sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter.

[dacrusha]

If Smart didn’t play like an all-NBA talent, instead of his usual scrubby self, Nurse would have played his bench more.

Add to that: Theis and Williams playing WAY above their pay grade, and you have a recipe for a short bench.

As noted, Stevens had the great luxury of staggering his stars: if it’s just Tatum, Brown and Kemba, you can figure out a way to give more minutes to your bench. But Smart turning into Steph Curry meant that we had to deploy our A lineup constantly.

[Basketball_Jones]

Yeah Smart/Theis/Williams and at times Wanamaker were too much. Other then Ibaka/OG and one game from Powell, we didn’t have any real depth production outside of our top 3.

[Pooh_Jeter]

The regular season and playoffs have shown the difference between 82 game players and 16 game players.

You have seen with the Heat and Nuggets in particular how they have received boosts from players who had limited roles in the regular season. Most importantly their top guys have elevated their bench guys and allowed them to play real minutes. Even with the Lakers whose depth is questionable, they have gotten playoff Rondo.

People were sipping the kool-aid with this Raptors roster when really Nurse has had his work cut out for him. Gasol is totally washed, Siakam and FVV don't make anyone around them better and their efficiency is questionable at best. OG is a glue guy and Ibaka relies on others to create offense for him. Essentially you are then down to a post prime Lowry and the 50/50 chance that Norm has it going.