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OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1341 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:40 am

Fairview4Life wrote:
Read on Twitter

I totally agree. Tawain got this ahit right. Really right and ya, a little bit of rights given up. I have found taiwan to be the best country.

Sorry china. It is.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1342 » by bballsparkin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:08 am

What's wrong with having a pint of beer open air? I was at a place drinking beer on Friday outside. The guy told me they planned to stay open all winter. He figured people would order food have a pint or two while waiting and then vamos. Not promoting utilizing the outdoors shows just how out of touch these government folks are.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1343 » by YogiStewart » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:18 pm

ItsDanger wrote:Pay everyone to stay home for 5 months. What could go wrong? LMAO.

here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1344 » by YogiStewart » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:22 pm

markR wrote: haha. Look buddy, I just stay home and drink cheap and eat well. The world could burn outside for all I care. I saved enough for about 10 years. But I'm too young to retire. Or i would. My life is like this lockdown anyway. Only thing I miss is live raptors games. But at least I've seen almost every single best playoff and season ever live. So if I dont see them for a while, I'll live.


this is clearly a burner account. password changed in august. account's 1 year old and just started posting. Messiah, is that you? Abercrombie lifestyle?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1345 » by YogiStewart » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:28 pm

ItsDanger wrote:https://youtu.be/uEo3rnU12jw?t=7

Dr. Roger Hodkinson criticizes reaction to covid.


this guy?
https://newsroom.royalcollege.ca/clarification-on-statements-made-regarding-covid-19-by-dr-roger-hodkinson/

the guy who's being quoted by Rebel News and other right-wing papers?
the guy who right wing websites is calling a "top pathologist" even though he isn't?
the guy who works for a private medical firm in the US?
the guy who states that giving 3000 IU of vitamin D will stop COVID?
the guy who talks about suicides from COVID lockdowns, even though stats state otherwise?
the guy who says it's no worse than a "bad flu" even though it has triple the spread rate?

yep. sounds legit.i wonder what he has to say about 9/11 and UFOs
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1346 » by Local_NG_Idiot » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:37 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:Coincidentally Joseph Goebbels once said” if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”

But I think Mark Twain nailed it “it’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled”

Describes half this board to a tee. And it’s really disturbing how easily people can be manipulated.


Psychological projection at it's finest here folks.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1347 » by Fairview4Life » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:44 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Pay everyone to stay home for 5 months. What could go wrong? LMAO.

here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?


Might not even need further “lockdowns”. If you can get cases down, then you can do what places like Taiwan and Korea have done - massive amounts of testing with centralized quarantine and cases won’t go back up and they can live relatively normal lives.

The argument that letting a virus spread uncontrolled across a population will save the economy is just so stupid.
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1348 » by YogiStewart » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:18 pm

Local_NG_Idiot wrote:
Yosemite Dan wrote:Coincidentally Joseph Goebbels once said” if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”

But I think Mark Twain nailed it “it’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled”

Describes half this board to a tee. And it’s really disturbing how easily people can be manipulated.


Psychological projection at it's finest here folks.

for once, we agree! lol
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1349 » by BigBoss23 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:34 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Pay everyone to stay home for 5 months. What could go wrong? LMAO.

here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?


The difference is in Asia the govt actually knows what theyre doing. As with any type of enforcement, if people buy in you will get a true partnership. Unlike the feds, province, or even municipal gov’ts here. How do you expect people to buy in when:

1. Ford has his daughters who dont live with him over for dinner right after he tells people not to? Goes to the cottage after telling people not to as well. Lol.

2. Logic or lack there of. You cant fix a sinking ship by selectively plugging holes while ignoring actual holes that are the biggest! Those that go against the narrative (Im no anti-masker or conspiracy theorist) look at statistics to base our opinions. You have pie graphs showing where cases are coming from and the majority show one of 3 areas (schools daycare, industrial work settings, and LTC or retirement homes). Int’l flights have been coming in the whole time with minimal enforcement on the 14 day quarantine. That means the gov’t is not only NOT targeting the right areas, it is compounding issues by targeting low hanging fruit that isn’t getting to the root cause.

3. You know what insanity is? Doing the same thing again expecting different results (see current lockdown). The govt has no stated end goal besides what appears to be putting all the eggs in one basket on a viable widespread vaccine with no side effects even though a coronovirus has never resulted in a viable vaccine to date. What do you think is going to happen if cases go down after 2 months and we open up again? The cases are going to go back up to square one because you arent mitigating the root cause. Its not solving anything. But the collateral damage is going to be massive. Spare me the selfish talk. We have NEVER been in this together. Govt officials are still getting their full salary while small businesses are going bankrupt despite many following regulations. One of Patrick Marzouk’s reataurants was about be interviewed by CBC friday 11pm after they announced Monday’s lockdown. He had a “random” spot check by investigators to rub salt in the wound after he publicly challenged the govts position. Thats whats important to our politicians. Save lives? You are destroying livelihoods with a sledgehammer approach that has gotten us into a similar lockdown to when we started 8 months ago in March.

4. As a country Canada has spent the most $ per capita on Covid of any G8 nation without the results to show for it that move the needle.

5. 99.86% survival rate across all ages with a median age of death of 83. That’s closer to influenza than a truly deadly virus. News flash - you cant save everyone with the resources available to us here in Canada. There will always be exeptions in terms of those who may develop after effects etc. But you dont burn down the house to kill a mouse. Because thats what the govt is doing now.

The lesson is if you are going to go the lockdown route you need to do it properly and early. The actual problem areas by statistics are still open here. Good luck getting people to buy in. Many are happy to take their chances with a new influenza rather than destroying livelihoods. To me, if a business puts food on the table its an essential business. The govt is unilaterally playing a game of who wins and who loses selectively (that $600m in aid money from taxpayers to businesses takes time and isnt getting to owners in time). Many who go against the narrative are fully educated people who dont get brainwashed by the mass hysteria caused by politicans or the media.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1350 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:05 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
markR wrote: haha. Look buddy, I just stay home and drink cheap and eat well. The world could burn outside for all I care. I saved enough for about 10 years. But I'm too young to retire. Or i would. My life is like this lockdown anyway. Only thing I miss is live raptors games. But at least I've seen almost every single best playoff and season ever live. So if I dont see them for a while, I'll live.


this is clearly a burner account. password changed in august. account's 1 year old and just started posting. Messiah, is that you? Abercrombie lifestyle?


Um. No. I'm actually a seasons seat holder. Only signed up to sell tickets but that turned out to be a fail for most of last season. And ya, when they won it all, the only game I missed in the play offs was game 1 of philly. I dont hide my identity buddy. Happy to prove it hot shot.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1351 » by radeonboy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:53 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Pay everyone to stay home for 5 months. What could go wrong? LMAO.

here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?


A lot of people don't realize that "recovered" numbers that are shown on the screen are not fully recovered and a sizable chunk have inherited a new underlying condition and permanent damage from COVID 19. They see the recovered numbers and think it gives them assurance that they can do whatever they want without consequences.

All one needs to do is go on YouTube and see the after effects of COVID 19 on people worldwide, could be anything from brain fog to varying degrees of respiratory damage to seizures to increased risk for Parkinsons to Alzheimers, some really nasty stuff you may have to live with for the rest of your life.

I wish people for example in the USA would use common sense and not do their Thanksgiving just for one year, it can wait until next year. I wish we all could collectively just for the greater good just not be selfish, but that isn't human nature. Some people may have to learn the hard way, and what's worst is the people who are diligent might still pick it up from the reckless ones.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1352 » by ItsDanger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:08 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Pay everyone to stay home for 5 months. What could go wrong? LMAO.

here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?

Short sighted? How about detailing economic fallout beyond next 5 months? Tactics employed will have long term effects on many people in a myriad of ways. Not one person has even attempted to explain ramifications of their policies. And there's a good reason for it.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1353 » by YogiStewart » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:17 pm

ItsDanger wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Pay everyone to stay home for 5 months. What could go wrong? LMAO.

here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?

Short sighted? How about detailing economic fallout beyond next 5 months? Tactics employed will have long term effects on many people in a myriad of ways. Not one person has even attempted to explain ramifications of their policies. And there's a good reason for it.


but having 1% of your population die from a virus also has negative economic fallout, as do sick days and long-term health issues and hospitals above capacity (resulting in 50 year olds having heart attacks not being able to get the care they need) etc etc.

don't look at stiff-arm numbers and pretend that A+B=C. that's not how any of this works.

half-assed measures (i.e. what all of canada's done) will only stretch economic pain out and, possibly, have a net negative effect. clamping down for 4-5 weeks will have a net positive result (likely) since you can re-open more things at an earlier time.

not doing a bloody thing (i.e. the US states) will have more deaths, more sick people and be a greater strain to the economy, which is the largest net negative.

also, some of you talk like you don't give a **** if your parents/uncles/aunts/grandparents die from COVID. it's really odd. anyone above 70 and anyone younger with comorbidities are at risk. and once you have a place like a nursing home that's infected to the tits, your staff will likely get infected (with a high viral load) and they'll be at risk.

those of you that keep on saying that nah, this is just the flu, nah, we don't need to lock down...not sure what lessons you aren't learning from Northern Italy, or from Texas right now, or from North Dakota, or from Germany and Belgium shortly, or Sweden, or from New York during its peak. this **** snowballs so damn quick. your 0.1% death rate from covid shoots way the hell up once you strain the system. more people with COVID die and more people without COVID also die as a result from not being able to receive medical care.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1354 » by ItsDanger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:41 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?

Short sighted? How about detailing economic fallout beyond next 5 months? Tactics employed will have long term effects on many people in a myriad of ways. Not one person has even attempted to explain ramifications of their policies. And there's a good reason for it.


but having 1% of your population die from a virus also has negative economic fallout, as do sick days and long-term health issues and hospitals above capacity (resulting in 50 year olds having heart attacks not being able to get the care they need) etc etc.

don't look at stiff-arm numbers and pretend that A+B=C. that's not how any of this works.

half-assed measures (i.e. what all of canada's done) will only stretch economic pain out and, possibly, have a net negative effect. clamping down for 4-5 weeks will have a net positive result (likely) since you can re-open more things at an earlier time.

not doing a bloody thing (i.e. the US states) will have more deaths, more sick people and be a greater strain to the economy, which is the largest net negative.

also, some of you talk like you don't give a **** if your parents/uncles/aunts/grandparents die from COVID. it's really odd. anyone above 70 and anyone younger with comorbidities are at risk. and once you have a place like a nursing home that's infected to the tits, your staff will likely get infected (with a high viral load) and they'll be at risk.

those of you that keep on saying that nah, this is just the flu, nah, we don't need to lock down...not sure what lessons you aren't learning from Northern Italy, or from Texas right now, or from North Dakota, or from Germany and Belgium shortly, or Sweden, or from New York during its peak. this **** snowballs so damn quick. your 0.1% death rate from covid shoots way the hell up once you strain the system. more people with COVID die and more people without COVID also die as a result from not being able to receive medical care.

80% of deaths in Canada are in LTCs and retirement homes. The most obvious vulnerability. Its easier to protect 20% vs 100%. If people cared, they would have put a hard stop on int'l travel Jan 20th. That is when I knew it was 90% likely to be a significant problem and so did many in hedge fund world. Everybody here especially in Canada sat on their hands. Playing whack a mole is a waste of time. 4-5 weeks will do nothing. You're looking at 5+ months. mRNA vaccines to old people carries its own risks.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1355 » by Yosemite Dan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:59 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:here's the problem:
you (and others) make these short-sighted statements without thinking about the pros and cons.

"Let's just open things up!" - look at Texas, Florida, North Dakota, etc etc. in North Dakota, 1 out of every 1000 residents has died. and we're just getting things going.

what could go wrong by paying people to stay home? ask yourself what could go wrong when you have positive testing rates at the 25% level? people can't come to work. food can't get put on the shelves. businesses can't stay open. so why not do a proper 28 day (not 5 month) shut-down, pay businesses to do so, reduce the cost of massive hospitalization and deaths, and reset things? 28 days of proper lockdown will bring our numbers back down (one can argue that it will go down by 75%). do that, open things again with restrictions and, once the numbers inevitably go up 3 months later, close things again. that way, you minimize deaths, you minimize the damage to businesses and you minimize the economic hit.

some of the people (not you in this reply) who are posting here truly are awful human beings who don't understand how society operates. you're basically calling for the euthanization of higher-risk people (seniors, immunocompromised) and possible long-term health consequences for everyone else.

i'm on month 5 since i had COVID. i now have asthma thanks to it. my wife pants after walking up a flight of stairs. we were both healthy and active before it. neither of us have any idea if there's cardiac damage done to us. this is what all of you want?

Short sighted? How about detailing economic fallout beyond next 5 months? Tactics employed will have long term effects on many people in a myriad of ways. Not one person has even attempted to explain ramifications of their policies. And there's a good reason for it.


but having 1% of your population die from a virus also has negative economic fallout, as do sick days and long-term health issues and hospitals above capacity (resulting in 50 year olds having heart attacks not being able to get the care they need) etc etc.

don't look at stiff-arm numbers and pretend that A+B=C. that's not how any of this works.

half-assed measures (i.e. what all of canada's done) will only stretch economic pain out and, possibly, have a net negative effect. clamping down for 4-5 weeks will have a net positive result (likely) since you can re-open more things at an earlier time.

not doing a bloody thing (i.e. the US states) will have more deaths, more sick people and be a greater strain to the economy, which is the largest net negative.

also, some of you talk like you don't give a **** if your parents/uncles/aunts/grandparents die from COVID. it's really odd. anyone above 70 and anyone younger with comorbidities are at risk. and once you have a place like a nursing home that's infected to the tits, your staff will likely get infected (with a high viral load) and they'll be at risk.

those of you that keep on saying that nah, this is just the flu, nah, we don't need to lock down...not sure what lessons you aren't learning from Northern Italy, or from Texas right now, or from North Dakota, or from Germany and Belgium shortly, or Sweden, or from New York during its peak. this **** snowballs so damn quick. your 0.1% death rate from covid shoots way the hell up once you strain the system. more people with COVID die and more people without COVID also die as a result from not being able to receive medical care.



You do realize that about 80 to 85% of that 1% are nursing home residents. I don’t think they would be working. This is what happens when people refuse to think critically. And those 50 years olds who are having heart attacks? I’m pretty sure that would be coming mostly from thier lives being financially destroyed.

Like I’ve said before there is 1 Covid ICU patient for almost every 3 hospitals in the province. If cases rose to 10 000 a day and ICU patients rose to 1000 and based on previous trends it would be about 1000 from 10k daily cases, you would still have a little more than 2 ICU patients for every hospital. And that would be the absolute worst case scenario. We would not be overwhelmed. That’s what you get with ICU flu cases every year and since apparently the flu has been way down this year (imagine that) then there in no reason to cancel any surgeries.

Perspective has been totally lost with this fear mongering. And I’ll say once again, no one is forcing to leave the house if you fear 10k cases, stay in your home, order everything online and wait for the vaccine. Im not telling you not to. But don’t force that way of living on people who need to pay thier bills where govt handouts aren’t gonna do it and are willing to take that risk just like the risk people take anytime they get into a car.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1356 » by Fairview4Life » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 pm

You aren’t going to have a functioning economy by letting a virus spread uncontrolled across a dense population. Everywhere cases increase quickly have seen their economies hit hard, whether or not they shut down some businesses. Turns out the people who get sick work and spend their money and stop doing that when they get sick. And everyone who isn’t sick stops going out because they are trying not to get sick. And the businesses that need lots of people in them with low profit margins still can’t survive. Calling for everything to be open and people to make their own decisions or whatever is calling for the worst of all worlds. It’s all no win. You have a lot more sick and dead people and you still have the **** economy with closed businesses and unemployed people.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1357 » by Local_NG_Idiot » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:07 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:You do realize that about 80 to 85% of that 1% are nursing home residents. I don’t think they would be working. This is what happens when people refuse to think critically.


and when communities have kept their rolling Rt values under 0.8, with less than 2.5% positivity rate, and less than 30 positive cases per 100,000 per week, LTCs have been able to operate with little to no Covid exposure. But don't let that critical thinking get in the way of your narative.


Like I’ve said before there is 1 Covid ICU patient for almost every 3 hospitals in the province. If cases rose to 10 000 a day and ICU patients rose to 1000 and based on previous trends it would be about 1000 from 10k daily cases, you would still have a little more than 2 ICU patients for every hospital. And that would be the absolute worst case scenario. We would not be overwhelmed. That’s what you get with ICU flu cases every year and since apparently the flu has been way down this year (imagine that) then there in no reason to cancel any surgeries.


Most hospitals across the province are operating at over 90% capacity for their acute care beds and some are nearing 100 in areas where Covid has been spiking. 1 covid ICU patient for every 3 hospitals is a dumb hot take since if a Windsor hospital is at capacity, Ontario is not transporting a Covid+ patient to Kingston for care.

Perspective has been totally lost with this fear mongering. And I’ll say once again, no one is forcing to leave the house if you fear 10k cases, stay in your home, order everything online and wait for the vaccine. Im not telling you not to. But don’t force that way of living on people who need to pay thier bills where govt handouts aren’t gonna do it and are willing to take that risk just like the risk people take anytime they get into a car.


Fairview already has explained this concept to you multiple times, again, that critical thinking thing you mentioned seems to be a one way street you choose to barrel down with complete disregard.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1358 » by YogiStewart » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:09 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:Like I’ve said before there is 1 Covid ICU patient for almost every 3 hospitals in the province. If cases rose to 10 000 a day and ICU patients rose to 1000 and based on previous trends it would be about 1000 from 10k daily cases, you would still have a little more than 2 ICU patients for every hospital. And that would be the absolute worst case scenario. We would not be overwhelmed. That’s what you get with ICU flu cases every year and since apparently the flu has been way down this year (imagine that) then there in no reason to cancel any surgeries.
.

"imagine that", you say, about the flu being down. is it because we're mostly isolating and most of us (likely not you) are not having people in our homes? and we're wearing masks? huh.

your hospital numbers are wrong. figure out how many hospitals are in the GTA. do the math based on positivity testing rates here.
small cities/towns have fewer hospitals. if/when they get hit, it's easier for them to be overwhelmed.
ICUs see non-covid patients as well, so you're assuming no one but COVID patients are in ICU.
the reason we're locking down is because our ICUs are already close to capacity and surgeries are being cancelled. that's not fearmongering - those are facts.
so if we kept the lockdown at current status, it means the spread rate will overwhelm our hospital system. plain and simple.

also incorrect with your numbers: the current ratio of infected:hospitalization is lower than half a year ago because the age is currently skewed to younger people. once the inevitable spread from younger people (you know, the ones that work at grocery stores, or nursing homes) to older people, things will be dire.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1359 » by Yosemite Dan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:09 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
Yosemite Dan wrote:Like I’ve said before there is 1 Covid ICU patient for almost every 3 hospitals in the province. If cases rose to 10 000 a day and ICU patients rose to 1000 and based on previous trends it would be about 1000 from 10k daily cases, you would still have a little more than 2 ICU patients for every hospital. And that would be the absolute worst case scenario. We would not be overwhelmed. That’s what you get with ICU flu cases every year and since apparently the flu has been way down this year (imagine that) then there in no reason to cancel any surgeries.
.

"imagine that", you say, about the flu being down. is it because we're mostly isolating and most of us (likely not you) are not having people in our homes? and we're wearing masks? huh.

your hospital numbers are wrong. figure out how many hospitals are in the GTA. do the math based on positivity testing rates here.
small cities/towns have fewer hospitals. if/when they get hit, it's easier for them to be overwhelmed.
ICUs see non-covid patients as well, so you're assuming no one but COVID patients are in ICU.
the reason we're locking down is because our ICUs are already close to capacity and surgeries are being cancelled. that's not fearmongering - those are facts.
so if we kept the lockdown at current status, it means the spread rate will overwhelm our hospital system. plain and simple.

also incorrect with your numbers: the current ratio of infected:hospitalization is lower than half a year ago because the age is currently skewed to younger people. once the inevitable spread from younger people (you know, the ones that work at grocery stores, or nursing homes) to older people, things will be dire.


So no flu cases because we’re isolating and wearing masks yet covid cases are skyrocketing with the same restrictions. And I’ll guess your next point. Your next point it’s because people are having parties yet those same parties aren’t causing flu#s to spike where younger people do not get flu shots. Your kindergarten logic makes no sense. You can’t have it both ways although I’m sure CNN would approve of it.

ICU units see flu cases as well every winter and since the flu has disappeared with your kindergarten logic that leaves that much more space to attend to ICU covid patients. And yes you can transfer many ICU patients out of smaller hospitals if need be. Toronto General gets the worst Covid Cases and they are continually getting transferred patients from other hospitals. My niece works in the respiratory unit there and in the last 8 months they have never had more than 50% capacity for the worst of the worst and normally at 25% capacity throughout this ordeal.

Italy did that in March when transferring patents out of the harder hit north to southern hospitals and they were not being left to die due to being overwhelmed. Which was confirmed by the Italian health minister in response to a fabricated story by CNN and other networks with zero evidence. Of course CNN didn’t show that press conference like most other MSM. Much like that field morgue picture CNN showed claiming covid patients were being sent there to be buried because they ran out of ground to bury people apparently when it turned out it was a 7 year old picture and it was an area where homeless people are buried.

In 2018 there were 8500 flu related deaths in Canada. My mother in her 70s broke her leg back then and needed to be hospitalized during that flu season and had to lie on a gurney for almost 2 days before getting a room because the hospital (and a major hospital) was over capacity. Almost every year hospitals are over capacity during the winter. It’s only the media that make it sound like it’s the worst thing ever when it happens every year. They conveniently ignore that context.

And overall deaths in Canada in 2020? On the same plane as it’s been for the last decade. A gradual rise year to year but only because the baby boomers are getting older representing a larger portion of the population and the overall death rate is expected to rise incrementally for the next decade. The same rate as in the US where apparently they’ve been ravaged with covid. And before you say that people are staying in thier homes so less risk of dying from different circumstances, that is more than offset by the dramatic rise in suicides and opioid deaths primarily due to these ridiculous lockdowns that target the wrong demographic.

You can spew on with your fear mongering and sky is falling scenarios. I’m just gonna reply with facts and statistics and you’re gonna lose every single time. Sorry
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1360 » by BigBoss23 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:20 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:
Yosemite Dan wrote:Like I’ve said before there is 1 Covid ICU patient for almost every 3 hospitals in the province. If cases rose to 10 000 a day and ICU patients rose to 1000 and based on previous trends it would be about 1000 from 10k daily cases, you would still have a little more than 2 ICU patients for every hospital. And that would be the absolute worst case scenario. We would not be overwhelmed. That’s what you get with ICU flu cases every year and since apparently the flu has been way down this year (imagine that) then there in no reason to cancel any surgeries.
.

"imagine that", you say, about the flu being down. is it because we're mostly isolating and most of us (likely not you) are not having people in our homes? and we're wearing masks? huh.

your hospital numbers are wrong. figure out how many hospitals are in the GTA. do the math based on positivity testing rates here.
small cities/towns have fewer hospitals. if/when they get hit, it's easier for them to be overwhelmed.
ICUs see non-covid patients as well, so you're assuming no one but COVID patients are in ICU.
the reason we're locking down is because our ICUs are already close to capacity and surgeries are being cancelled. that's not fearmongering - those are facts.
so if we kept the lockdown at current status, it means the spread rate will overwhelm our hospital system. plain and simple.

also incorrect with your numbers: the current ratio of infected:hospitalization is lower than half a year ago because the age is currently skewed to younger people. once the inevitable spread from younger people (you know, the ones that work at grocery stores, or nursing homes) to older people, things will be dire.


So no flu cases because we’re isolating and wearing masks yet covid cases are skyrocketing with the same restrictions. And I’ll guess your next point. Your next point it’s because people are having parties yet those same parties aren’t causing flu#s to spike where younger people do not get flu shots. Your kindergarten logic makes no sense. You can’t have it both ways although I’m sure CNN would approve of it.

ICU units see flu cases as well every winter and since the flu has disappeared with your kindergarten logic that leaves that much more space to attend to ICU covid patients. And yes you can transfer many ICU patients out of smaller hospitals if need be. Toronto General gets the worst Covid Cases and they are continually getting transferred patients from other hospitals. My niece works in the respiratory unit there and in the last 8 months they have never had more than 50% capacity for the worst of the worst and normally at 25% capacity throughout this ordeal.

Italy did that in March when transferring patents out of the harder hit north to southern hospitals and they were not being left to die due to being overwhelmed. Which was confirmed by the Italian health minister in response to a fabricated story by CNN and other networks with zero evidence. Of course CNN didn’t show that press conference like most other MSM. Much like that field morgue picture CNN showed claiming covid patients were being sent there to be buried because they ran out of ground to bury people apparently when it turned out it was a 7 year old picture and it was an area where homeless people are buried.

In 2018 there were 8500 flu related deaths in Canada. My mother in her 70s broke her leg back then and needed to be hospitalized during that flu season and had to lie on a gurney for almost 2 days before getting a room because the hospital (and a major hospital) was over capacity. Almost every year hospitals are over capacity during the winter. It’s only the media that make it sound like it’s the worst thing ever when it happens every year. They conveniently ignore that context.

And overall deaths in Canada in 2020? On the same plane as it’s been for the last decade. A gradual rise year to year but only because the baby boomers are getting older representing a larger portion of the population and the overall death rate is expected to rise incrementally for the next decade. The same rate as in the US where apparently they’ve been ravaged with covid. And before you say that people are staying in thier homes so less risk of dying from different circumstances, that is more than offset by the dramatic rise in suicides and opioid deaths primarily due to these ridiculous lockdowns that target the wrong demographic.

You can spew on with your fear mongering and sky is falling scenarios. I’m just gonna reply with facts and statistics and you’re gonna lose every single time. Sorry


Yep, when I heard how the flu is “down” thats when you know its a crock of bull. If the same measures are apparently not enough for covid how could the flu with similar symptoms suddently coincidentally hit an all time low?

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