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OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

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Yosemite Dan
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1321 » by Yosemite Dan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:49 am

Fairview4Life wrote:
Yosemite Dan wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
Oooo, no, that’s not actually what I said. I get that arguing with a straw man is much easier though.

There are a number of non essential businesses that require large gatherings of people in close contact inside for long periods of time in order to make money. Those places should be closed in a lot of Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Alberta, BC etc.. Places where there have been a big increase in cases. The government can pay those people to not work for several months and pay the businesses money so they can pay their landlords etc. For months. We have the resources for that. Do that when cases are rising like they are and when they go back down you can start opening some of them up again. Or, since vaccines are on the way, just keep them shut down until enough people have been jabbed. It is actually very simple.

Let a virus spread uncontrolled in a dense population. What could go wrong? LMAO. I’m sure all those businesses we let stay open to save them will be doing great when their staff are all home sick. Or when no one is patronizing them because everyone else is home sick, or afraid of getting sick. Really thought that through.


You really are detached from reality. Reading the posts from various people the last few pages is more scary than covid could ever be.


Coming from one of the absolute worst posters on realgm, I’ll take that compliment, thanks.


You’re very welcome. With 55 000 posts it sounds like you wouldn’t even know there was a lockdown unless you turned on the TV.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1322 » by M3tro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:58 am

Yosemite Dan wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Pay everyone to stay home for 5 months. What could go wrong? LMAO.


Oooo, no, that’s not actually what I said. I get that arguing with a straw man is much easier though.

There are a number of non essential businesses that require large gatherings of people in close contact inside for long periods of time in order to make money. Those places should be closed in a lot of Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Alberta, BC etc.. Places where there have been a big increase in cases. The government can pay those people to not work for several months and pay the businesses money so they can pay their landlords etc. For months. We have the resources for that. Do that when cases are rising like they are and when they go back down you can start opening some of them up again. Or, since vaccines are on the way, just keep them shut down until enough people have been jabbed. It is actually very simple.

Let a virus spread uncontrolled in a dense population. What could go wrong? LMAO. I’m sure all those businesses we let stay open to save them will be doing great when their staff are all home sick. Or when no one is patronizing them because everyone else is home sick, or afraid of getting sick. Really thought that through.


You really are detached from reality. Reading the posts from various people the last few pages is more scary than covid could ever be.


Kinda like those Germans who aided the Nazis in rounding up Jews. They were good people who were just following orders too.

It's crazy what humans will do when they feel pressure from an authority figure. They'll willingly let their government dictate how to live their life and bleed out >30% of the population in the process for an entire YEAR; scapegoating those who question the situation as the problem.

Dissent is part of human nature. There should be lots of questions being asked here instead of blind compliance.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1323 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:16 am

Local_NG_Idiot wrote:
markR wrote:
Local_NG_Idiot wrote:
Great, so LTC workers, who live within a community rampant with Covid then also get Covid and can no longer do their job for at minimum 2 weeks. If 50% of the staff have it, what then? Who takes care of the residents?

The dumb, the dense and the ignorant on this forum continue to just babble on about things they understand absolutely nothing about.


The government had 8 months to employ a group of people to be deployed to locations where staff can not work until they can return. But no, doug has his 10B to save for some road repairs.


how many years does it take to become a registered nurse or psw? who's exactly qualified to care for the needs of acute patients vs patients with dementia? See, you don't know the 1st thing about the issues and make flippant ignorant comments like someone should just be able to waive a magic wand and everyone will be safe in these facilities with endless resources and care givers lining up.

The government also had years to fix the disproportionately low per capital ICU space and did not. And chose to blame on libs, a lie.


well, a year and a half to be exact and to be fair, the libs had 14 and also (according to your criteria of nothing) did nothing so I hope you are prepared to blame both?

They had years to also fix the ailing LTCs before this. And they did not.


see above, samesies.

All you've done is point fingers, no solutions, next.


Well, according to the military, psws in LTCs physically assault, force feed, dont clean residents, let them stew in filth, so I'd say maybe a day or two in order to get trained up to speed. I'm sure if a military soldier can come in from scratch and raise care levels substantially, it probably just takes a person with a compassionate heart and care to be better than what's there. No?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1324 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:23 am

Local_NG_Idiot wrote:
Yosemite Dan wrote:
Local_NG_Idiot wrote:
Great, so LTC workers, who live within a community rampant with Covid then also get Covid and can no longer do their job for at minimum 2 weeks. If 50% of the staff have it, what then? Who takes care of the residents?

The dumb, the dense and the ignorant on this forum continue to just babble on about things they understand absolutely nothing about.


That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard. I’m not saying not for people to wear masks but let businesses operate like they did before yesterday and give people the choice to operate thier business and give them the freedom to take that risk.

The govt doubles all salaries for all LTC workers on the condition they self quarantine themselves just like travellers do when they come back. May suck for some but give them financial incentive to do it. Even triple thier salary if they have to. A lot cheaper than what the govt are doing now financially. They chose this profession to deal with the frail so they have a responsibility and with the outbreaks happening it looks like many of them aren’t properly isolating themselves. They knew what they’re were getting into when they took the job. You quarantine yourself properly and are given financial incentive to do so, there is a minimal chance you get covid no matter rampant it is in the population. You don’t have to take public transportation to work because you’re being compensated by a govt subsidy so you can Uber anywhere you want or even rent a car if you have to with a much cheaper rate subsidized by the govt.

Your reasoning of burning the house that has a little bit of mould in the basement is apparently not dense by your standards. You must live with mommy and daddy. And people like you are the problem. You yell from your social media soapbox because you have no concept of how utterly devastating this lockdown is for people who have spent thier whole lives building a business and providing for thier families and to have that all destroyed in an instant because of the idiotic vocal minority bullying the govts into an insane overreaction.


more babbling and finger pointing at others to take on additional responsibility so you can continue to ignore your social responsibilities and go to the gym and party at the bar. clown shoes bud.


You may need to seek out some professional health. Honestly, you seem really angry. like serious depression angry. I agree with you about the bar studd. Government spends lots of time trying to figure out how people can go out and drink.

And I'm sorry, doug ford is a god damn fat former drug dealing clown. He and his cast of characters might have slid by not knowing anything, but the pandemic has revealed a lot of so call leaders are devoid of leadership and just plain stupid.

Doug just finger wags at us too. So ya, lots of blame no leadership but I'm concerned you have some serious problems. this a sports board.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1325 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:31 am

execoftheyear wrote:
Local_NG_Idiot wrote:
markR wrote:
The government had 8 months to employ a group of people to be deployed to locations where staff can not work until they can return. But no, doug has his 10B to save for some road repairs.


how many years does it take to become a registered nurse or psw? who's exactly qualified to care for the needs of acute patients vs patients with dementia? See, you don't know the 1st thing about the issues and make flippant ignorant comments like someone should just be able to waive a magic wand and everyone will be safe in these facilities with endless resources and care givers lining up.

The government also had years to fix the disproportionately low per capital ICU space and did not. And chose to blame on libs, a lie.


well, a year and a half to be exact and to be fair, the libs had 14 and also (according to your criteria of nothing) did nothing so I hope you are prepared to blame both?

They had years to also fix the ailing LTCs before this. And they did not.


see above, samesies.

All you've done is point fingers, no solutions, next.


bro, there's no use arguing with these people. It's sad but the only way some people will realize how serious this is is if the place they live in gets hit really hard (like New York/North Dakota/Texas/Italy/Spain/Brazil/UK/France) or they somehow get the virus themselves or witness someone close to them get it. That's unfortunately how it is especially in a country that hasn't really experienced something like this in the past. It's a big reason why most Asian countries have no issues with complying with the measures their governments put in place, they've had terrible experiences in the past. There's countless stories of deniers converting into believers when someone close to them gets it or they themselves get it. There's even people who are getting admitted into ICU, receiving treatment and are still denying that the virus even exists. There's no way to get through to these types of people.

They don't see that lockdowns are a necessary sacrifice in stopping the spread because the spread hasn't gotten bad enough to where enough people can see how bad the situation can get when you let this thing run rampant even though there's enough data from other countries and states in dire situations and are being forced into extreme lockdown measures. It's almost like some people need to see how bad this thing can get to justify the lockdowns but the problem is lockdowns are more effective when implemented early so these types of people won't get to really see the difference between pre vs post lockdown measures.
haha. Look buddy, I just stay home and drink cheap and eat well. The world could burn outside for all I care. I saved enough for about 10 years. But I'm too young to retire. Or i would. My life is like this lockdown anyway. Only thing I miss is live raptors games. But at least I've seen almost every single best playoff and season ever live. So if I dont see them for a while, I'll live.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1326 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:35 am

Jeremy Lin 7 wrote:
markR wrote:
Jeremy Lin 7 wrote:Go into Lockdown but keep schools open. Doug Ford logic for you

Do you have kids?

I'm probably going to ask my employer to let me go back to the office if they close schools. It is far too stressful to work from home like that.
Employers better figure out how to get people back in the office. I've got friends who said fuxk it and quit and will go back to work in a year or so. They can and have savings. It is a common story.

Fair point. My co-worker told me she prefers working in the office than from home with the kids. Couldn't imagine trying to work from home in that situation. Let alone trying to find someone to babysit. Hopefully, cases can drop soon.



Yah. I had three friends just quit jobs in July. Had enough. Very very needed skills and well paid and hated who they worked for and basically said, I'll take a break and go look next summer.

It is a huge f ing problem. Take to big companies. working from home was good for like 3 months and for people who hated taking the go train and paying to park, but having to set up a zoom call and meet to deal with something that would take 5 minutes to pop your head into someone's office is made a lot o employees say screw it
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1327 » by Gold Dragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:36 am

Kevin Willis wrote:My concern is more on a DNA level and the fact cyto storms are still a prevailing issue. I am also more concerned on the ability of our T and B cells to properly develop receptors to latch on to the virus. There is also a strain in Brazil that is of concern because it is avoiding the immuse system defenses. Nobody is arguing about the elderly getting sick at this point. I am also looking at the numbers and statistically realize we're **** unless we can work together. It's not happening though and I don't know what else will take for peopel to understand. I will go back and delete my posts. This thread saddens me because I can see where we are heading and some of you guys can't.


I think I've shared this before but if you are interested in more of the scientific/clinical aspect of Covid19, two resources I've used to keep up with all the data are:

1. Medcram - A respiratory and critical care physician who does a good job explaining things that many lay people will still understand on youtube.

2. This week in Virology - a podcast by virologists who answer a lot of listener questions from medical and non-medical folks. Every week they also have a clinical update by Daniel Griffin who is an infectious disease consultant who now pretty much deals only with Covid19. They had a piece on Long Haul/Long Term/Long Covid recently if that is what you are talking about.

These guys are on the leading edge of the research and data on Covid19 and seeing patients every day with it.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1328 » by Gold Dragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:25 am

Things are smooth sailing in Australia and life is really returning back to normal for the most part and only small sacrifices need to be made because of good control (holiday plans, taking time off work/school when you have very mild illnesses, avoiding crowded areas and distancing in restaurants). Many people are still wearing masks and that is still strongly encouraged but not mandatory (especially in public transport and health care settings)

We had Job Keeper that paid businesses to keep employees employed when there was less/no work. We had Job Seeker that paid people looking for work more than they usually get. I believe we paid banks to defer mortagage repayments and landlords to defer rents. Most of those subsidies are decreasing or coming to an end because things are getting close to normal.

I'm definitely worried about family and friends back in Toronto and some in the US, many of which are elderly and in high risk categories.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1329 » by ItsDanger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:33 am

https://youtu.be/uEo3rnU12jw?t=7

Dr. Roger Hodkinson criticizes reaction to covid.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1330 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:54 am

Gold Dragon wrote:Things are smooth sailing in Australia and life is really returning back to normal for the most part and only small sacrifices need to be made because of good control (holiday plans, taking time off work/school when you have very mild illnesses, avoiding crowded areas and distancing in restaurants). Many people are still wearing masks and that is still strongly encouraged but not mandatory (especially in public transport and health care settings)

We had Job Keeper that paid businesses to keep employees employed when there was less/no work. We had Job Seeker that paid people looking for work more than they usually get. I believe we paid banks to defer mortagage repayments and landlords to defer rents. Most of those subsidies are decreasing or coming to an end because things are getting close to normal.

I'm definitely worried about family and friends back in Toronto and some in the US, many of which are elderly and in high risk categories.

Everything has a cost.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/11/21/aust-n21.html

Remember, mental health issues reduce life expectancy. And so does economic stress. Sometimes often ignored but you can look up the after effects of the pandemic in 1918 and 1919 to see thr effects well beyond mere deaths. And it is not pretty.

Same with delayed surgeries, cancer treatment etc etc etc.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1331 » by Gold Dragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:58 am

markR wrote:
Gold Dragon wrote:Things are smooth sailing in Australia and life is really returning back to normal for the most part and only small sacrifices need to be made because of good control (holiday plans, taking time off work/school when you have very mild illnesses, avoiding crowded areas and distancing in restaurants). Many people are still wearing masks and that is still strongly encouraged but not mandatory (especially in public transport and health care settings)

We had Job Keeper that paid businesses to keep employees employed when there was less/no work. We had Job Seeker that paid people looking for work more than they usually get. I believe we paid banks to defer mortagage repayments and landlords to defer rents. Most of those subsidies are decreasing or coming to an end because things are getting close to normal.

I'm definitely worried about family and friends back in Toronto and some in the US, many of which are elderly and in high risk categories.

Everything has a cost.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/11/21/aust-n21.html

Remember, mental health issues reduce life expectancy. And so does economic stress. Sometimes often ignored but you can look up the after effects of the pandemic in 1918 and 1919 to see thr effects well beyond mere deaths. And it is not pretty.

Same with delayed surgeries, cancer treatment etc etc etc.


NSW Health has dramatically increased funding to mental health services and all patients have double the number of Medicare subsidized psychologist services available. The cause of the mental and economic stress is the pandemic. The best way to alleviate the mental and economic stress is to control the pandemic with good public health measures that have been shown to work for hundreds of years and are continuing to work today.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1332 » by DHK » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:03 am

ItsDanger wrote:https://youtu.be/uEo3rnU12jw?t=7

Dr. Roger Hodkinson criticizes reaction to covid.

http://newsroom.royalcollege.ca/clarification-on-statements-made-regarding-covid-19-by-dr-roger-hodkinson/
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1333 » by Yosemite Dan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:06 am

M3tro wrote:
Yosemite Dan wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
Oooo, no, that’s not actually what I said. I get that arguing with a straw man is much easier though.

There are a number of non essential businesses that require large gatherings of people in close contact inside for long periods of time in order to make money. Those places should be closed in a lot of Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Alberta, BC etc.. Places where there have been a big increase in cases. The government can pay those people to not work for several months and pay the businesses money so they can pay their landlords etc. For months. We have the resources for that. Do that when cases are rising like they are and when they go back down you can start opening some of them up again. Or, since vaccines are on the way, just keep them shut down until enough people have been jabbed. It is actually very simple.

Let a virus spread uncontrolled in a dense population. What could go wrong? LMAO. I’m sure all those businesses we let stay open to save them will be doing great when their staff are all home sick. Or when no one is patronizing them because everyone else is home sick, or afraid of getting sick. Really thought that through.


You really are detached from reality. Reading the posts from various people the last few pages is more scary than covid could ever be.


Kinda like those Germans who aided the Nazis in rounding up Jews. They were good people who were just following orders too.

It's crazy what humans will do when they feel pressure from an authority figure. They'll willingly let their government dictate how to live their life and bleed out >30% of the population in the process for an entire YEAR; scapegoating those who question the situation as the problem.

Dissent is part of human nature. There should be lots of questions being asked here instead of blind compliance.


Coincidentally Joseph Goebbels once said” if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”

But I think Mark Twain nailed it “it’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled”

Describes half this board to a tee. And it’s really disturbing how easily people can be manipulated.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1334 » by ItsDanger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:14 am

DHK wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:https://youtu.be/uEo3rnU12jw?t=7

Dr. Roger Hodkinson criticizes reaction to covid.

http://newsroom.royalcollege.ca/clarification-on-statements-made-regarding-covid-19-by-dr-roger-hodkinson/


He stated chairman of examination committee not the entire college.

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Try again.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1335 » by Gold Dragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:25 am

ItsDanger wrote:https://youtu.be/uEo3rnU12jw?t=7

Dr. Roger Hodkinson criticizes reaction to covid.


There was a time when doctors only had the experience of other doctors to turn to for knowledge and your understanding of medicine was at the mercy of the limitations of what your supervisor knew or believed, no matter how wrong they were.

Now we have a lot more options and information sources to know when a doctor lets their politics cloud their judgement about scientific data.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1336 » by DHK » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:35 am

ItsDanger wrote:
DHK wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:https://youtu.be/uEo3rnU12jw?t=7

Dr. Roger Hodkinson criticizes reaction to covid.

http://newsroom.royalcollege.ca/clarification-on-statements-made-regarding-covid-19-by-dr-roger-hodkinson/


He stated chairman of examination committee not the entire college.

Image

Try again.

Try reading the entire article. :noway:
"The Royal College believes COVID-19 presents a serious threat to the health of Canadians. The Royal College strongly supports all public health advice given by the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, including recommendations to practise physical distancing and to wear masks to help prevent COVID-19 transmission. We are very appreciative of the dedication and commitment of our Royal College Fellows, residents and all front-line health care workers in the fight against COVID-19."
One doctor having a stray thought doesnt mean that's the representative as a whole.
Obviously, there's a lot of politics involved in a lot of provincial decisions/mandates set to combat covid, but what decision doesnt.
The whole precedent this rogue doctor sets stating about non-mask usage being a necessity to the norm, and thinking of it as a bad flu season...this guy is nuts.
What's worst is that there are dozens of people reading the youtube comments using this as a confirmation bias to support their anti-mask perspectives. Funnily enough, these are the same people somehow incorporating Trump into the conversation.
Clowns.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1337 » by ItsDanger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:41 am

DHK wrote:Try reading the entire article. :noway:
"The Royal College believes COVID-19 presents a serious threat to the health of Canadians. The Royal College strongly supports all public health advice given by the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, including recommendations to practise physical distancing and to wear masks to help prevent COVID-19 transmission. We are very appreciative of the dedication and commitment of our Royal College Fellows, residents and all front-line health care workers in the fight against COVID-19."
One doctor having a stray thought doesnt mean that's the representative as a whole.
Obviously, there's a lot of politics involved in a lot of provincial decisions/mandates set to combat covid, but what decision doesnt.
The whole precedent this rogue doctor sets stating about non-mask usage being a necessity to the norm, and thinking of it as a bad flu season...this guy is nuts.
What's worst is that there are dozens of people reading the youtube comments using this as a confirmation bias to support their anti-mask perspectives. Funnily enough, these are the same people somehow incorporating Trump into the conversation.
Clowns.


Jokes. Your link refuted a claim that was clearly 2nd hand info that he stated he was chairman of the Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons. In fact, he stated he was a chairman of the much lower end Examination Committee. This is literally straight from your link and the vid that I linked. Probably they received bad info. The other verbiage is fluff.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1338 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:14 am

Gold Dragon wrote:
markR wrote:
Gold Dragon wrote:Things are smooth sailing in Australia and life is really returning back to normal for the most part and only small sacrifices need to be made because of good control (holiday plans, taking time off work/school when you have very mild illnesses, avoiding crowded areas and distancing in restaurants). Many people are still wearing masks and that is still strongly encouraged but not mandatory (especially in public transport and health care settings)

We had Job Keeper that paid businesses to keep employees employed when there was less/no work. We had Job Seeker that paid people looking for work more than they usually get. I believe we paid banks to defer mortagage repayments and landlords to defer rents. Most of those subsidies are decreasing or coming to an end because things are getting close to normal.

I'm definitely worried about family and friends back in Toronto and some in the US, many of which are elderly and in high risk categories.

Everything has a cost.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/11/21/aust-n21.html

Remember, mental health issues reduce life expectancy. And so does economic stress. Sometimes often ignored but you can look up the after effects of the pandemic in 1918 and 1919 to see thr effects well beyond mere deaths. And it is not pretty.

Same with delayed surgeries, cancer treatment etc etc etc.


NSW Health has dramatically increased funding to mental health services and all patients have double the number of Medicare subsidized psychologist services available. The cause of the mental and economic stress is the pandemic. The best way to alleviate the mental and economic stress is to control the pandemic with good public health measures that have been shown to work for hundreds of years and are continuing to work today.


Wow. Australia sounds like a utopia. I call bullcrap. My colleagues in Sydney dont seem to have drank the koolaid you have.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1339 » by markR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:17 am

Gold Dragon wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:https://youtu.be/uEo3rnU12jw?t=7

Dr. Roger Hodkinson criticizes reaction to covid.


There was a time when doctors only had the experience of other doctors to turn to for knowledge and your understanding of medicine was at the mercy of the limitations of what your supervisor knew or believed, no matter how wrong they were.

Now we have a lot more options and information sources to know when a doctor lets their politics cloud their judgement about scientific data.


Oh my. This sounds a little Stockholmish. I'm not going to set my feed to ignore you. I'd say water is a little salty in Australia.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread 

Post#1340 » by Fairview4Life » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:25 am

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