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OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(934 new cases Oct 29th)

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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#701 » by mtcan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:23 am

execoftheyear wrote:
13th Man wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
In UV and heat the virus has a shorter life. That's proven. However these spreads have been usually indoors - bars, clubs, gyms - where people aren't wearing masks and practising social distance. In that case it really doesn't matter what the weather outside is. For example don't recall any outbreaks happening over the summer where people social distanced at the beach or even the small numbers at protests where people are wearing masks. Fair had some suggestions - if everyone followed that we would be fine.


Nothing beats beautiful nature (except natural disasters lol). This is why I choose to be outdoors as much as possible now.

Getting back to your point, we normally do a good job of socially distancing ourselves indoors as well. In gyms, every 2nd or 3rd piece of cardio equipment is usually marked unavailable. Same with restaurant tables and booths.

For personal gatherings it's obviously harder to impose these rules in someone's private house, the other problematic settings are with bars or clubs when it's usually later in the evening and when people are often intoxicated.

This is why I feel it's unfair to target all gyms and daytime dining/coffee shops when they have taken appropriate measures for social distancing and are not serious threats.

What they could have done was targeted night clubs, restaurants or bars after a certain hour like forced closures at 10pm. Gym studios that have people packed into confined space while exercising heavily; activities such as Zumba classes, Spin studios and physical combat sports like Jiu-Jitsu or contact sparring Muay Thai clubs. Those type of confined spaces are all candidates to be spreaders, instead they lump all gyms and indoor dining together to destroy the economy, people's livelihood as well as their physical and mental well being?


https://www.cp24.com/news/some-toronto-peel-residents-appear-to-be-crossing-regional-covid-19-boundaries-for-exercise-1.5145851

This is probably why. Just imagine several potentially infected members at one gym that closed all of a sudden decide to try several different gyms that haven't experienced an outbreak. Then another potential outbreak happens at these other locations forcing these locations to close down and then members of those locations look to another location. Then you can see why only closing certain locations doesn't really work. It will just mean members of one gym that closed down will just relocate to other locations when they've been potentially exposed at the gym they were previously at.

Do gyms have masking rules? Do patrons have to keep masks on at all times? I'm not familiar with the rules at LA Fitness or Goodlife, etc. And if there are rules...are they enforced?

I get it...it's hard to work out with a mask on. But that's the problem. You spend hours in an enclosed space...masks off. Heavy breathing likely results from strenuous activity...then someone with the virus is just spewing it everywhere. Gotta have air conditioning inside the facility? Virus ends up circulating. Or...if staff aren't thorough with disinfecting equipment/work out spaces where someone with virus was just letting it all out and around...

Image

This is obviously an example of virus spread from a restaurant in China at the start of the pandemic...but I think it applies to any indoor space with a working HVAC...

Look at how spending several hours in an enclosed space and maskless allows the air conditioning unit to spread all that **** around. I assume the people in that restaurant weren't huffing and puffing like after a fitness class, or while on a treadmill/bike/elliptical/rowing machine/bench press. They were just breathing in and out normally...and how many people ended getting the virus in that restaurant?

No matter how much social distancing in a gym...you are still indoors for hours on end, not wearing a mask (and there will be people NOT wearing masks despite mask policies) and likely respiring at an ever higher rate than normal...and the indoor air is being constantly recirculated.

You don't have to go to a gym in order to stay fit. In these next few weeks with the gyms closed...go for a walk/run or bike ride outdoors. Take advantage of the fall weather before the snow comes.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#702 » by 13th Man » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:59 pm

mtcan wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:
13th Man wrote:
Nothing beats beautiful nature (except natural disasters lol). This is why I choose to be outdoors as much as possible now.

Getting back to your point, we normally do a good job of socially distancing ourselves indoors as well. In gyms, every 2nd or 3rd piece of cardio equipment is usually marked unavailable. Same with restaurant tables and booths.

For personal gatherings it's obviously harder to impose these rules in someone's private house, the other problematic settings are with bars or clubs when it's usually later in the evening and when people are often intoxicated.

This is why I feel it's unfair to target all gyms and daytime dining/coffee shops when they have taken appropriate measures for social distancing and are not serious threats.

What they could have done was targeted night clubs, restaurants or bars after a certain hour like forced closures at 10pm. Gym studios that have people packed into confined space while exercising heavily; activities such as Zumba classes, Spin studios and physical combat sports like Jiu-Jitsu or contact sparring Muay Thai clubs. Those type of confined spaces are all candidates to be spreaders, instead they lump all gyms and indoor dining together to destroy the economy, people's livelihood as well as their physical and mental well being?


https://www.cp24.com/news/some-toronto-peel-residents-appear-to-be-crossing-regional-covid-19-boundaries-for-exercise-1.5145851

This is probably why. Just imagine several potentially infected members at one gym that closed all of a sudden decide to try several different gyms that haven't experienced an outbreak. Then another potential outbreak happens at these other locations forcing these locations to close down and then members of those locations look to another location. Then you can see why only closing certain locations doesn't really work. It will just mean members of one gym that closed down will just relocate to other locations when they've been potentially exposed at the gym they were previously at.

Do gyms have masking rules? Do patrons have to keep masks on at all times? I'm not familiar with the rules at LA Fitness or Goodlife, etc. And if there are rules...are they enforced?

I get it...it's hard to work out with a mask on. But that's the problem. You spend hours in an enclosed space...masks off. Heavy breathing likely results from strenuous activity...then someone with the virus is just spewing it everywhere. Gotta have air conditioning inside the facility? Virus ends up circulating. Or...if staff aren't thorough with disinfecting equipment/work out spaces where someone with virus was just letting it all out and around...

Image

This is obviously an example of virus spread from a restaurant in China at the start of the pandemic...but I think it applies to any indoor space with a working HVAC...

Look at how spending several hours in an enclosed space and maskless allows the air conditioning unit to spread all that **** around. I assume the people in that restaurant weren't huffing and puffing like after a fitness class, or while on a treadmill/bike/elliptical/rowing machine/bench press. They were just breathing in and out normally...and how many people ended getting the virus in that restaurant?

No matter how much social distancing in a gym...you are still indoors for hours on end, not wearing a mask (and there will be people NOT wearing masks despite mask policies) and likely respiring at an ever higher rate than normal...and the indoor air is being constantly recirculated.

You don't have to go to a gym in order to stay fit. In these next few weeks with the gyms closed...go for a walk/run or bike ride outdoors. Take advantage of the fall weather before the snow comes.


I'll try to answer to both posts with this.. My daytime job is a project manager but my part-time profession is fitness instructor/personal training. So I'm well aware of the climate of both the regular gym and group fitness classes.

To address the initial post about people coming from other regions, this just goes to show you how important physical health is for many people. From my many years of training people, do you know what the number one factor that determines their success or failure? It's not the program, it's not how good the instructor is (although that is important), it is not how good the facility is. It is their ability to adhere to a program, it is consistency. The way I see it, my job is to provide them with the knowledge and enthusiasm to exercise. The gym's job is to provide them with the equipment for a safe and effective exercise. The Government's job is to provide the availability for this to happen.

People are creatures of routine and when their routine gets interrupted, it could easily mess up many people leading them to completely fall off the wagon. I've seen this all the time. The club changes the time of 1 group fitness class by half an hour and bam, people's routine are out of whack and it totally messes them up. Imagine closing the gym for months, then allowing them back for 3 months then closing it again a 2nd time. This not only F's with your physical health but mental health as well.

About the sanitization practices inside of most gyms, you have to be masked when walking around. You can only unmask when exercising, which each station is properly social distanced. Even if you're going to fill up your water bottle (direct drinking from fountain is closed), you have to put on your mask. There are sanitization stations everywhere and you must wipe down all touchpoints of your equipment when finished. For exercises with heavy breathing such as cardio exercises, the distancing between cardio machines is even greater, where I work it's not every 2nd treadmill that is usable but every 3rd. The gyms that I work at also turn off all fans and A/C units and open windows if that is possible. I hope that restaurants should be doing this as well.

With this, as mentioned in an earlier post, the classes or types of activities that could lead to some concern are classes where there are many people packed into a small room, breathing heavily and sweating profusely, or classes that involve physical contact with another person. Those that immediately come to mind are Spin classes, Zumba classes, Muay Thai or BJJ with direct contact. I understand that some of these clubs have been able to function with non-contact exercises with other people. The large fitness club where I work have already cancelled all group fitness classes before the lockdown. There were zero incidents stemming from this club that I know of.

So in my opinion is that they could have just restricted certain types of classes while still allowing for people to work out in a conventional gym setting. About the people coming over to gyms from other regions, it didn't have to be. If the opened gyms follow proper safety protocol as I've mentioned and do not host group fitness classes then I don't see a problem with that. People need to maintain their health and sanity, not be cooped up in their homes with nowhere to go.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(712 new cases Oct 16th) 

Post#703 » by 13th Man » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:02 pm

How about if the Government spent money to subsidize installation of HEPA filtration systems everywhere? Take some of the trillions from the CERB or variations of the CERB to try to mitigate the risk rather than simply avoiding the risk?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#704 » by execoftheyear » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:42 pm

13th Man wrote:
mtcan wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:https://www.cp24.com/news/some-toronto-peel-residents-appear-to-be-crossing-regional-covid-19-boundaries-for-exercise-1.5145851

This is probably why. Just imagine several potentially infected members at one gym that closed all of a sudden decide to try several different gyms that haven't experienced an outbreak. Then another potential outbreak happens at these other locations forcing these locations to close down and then members of those locations look to another location. Then you can see why only closing certain locations doesn't really work. It will just mean members of one gym that closed down will just relocate to other locations when they've been potentially exposed at the gym they were previously at.

Do gyms have masking rules? Do patrons have to keep masks on at all times? I'm not familiar with the rules at LA Fitness or Goodlife, etc. And if there are rules...are they enforced?

I get it...it's hard to work out with a mask on. But that's the problem. You spend hours in an enclosed space...masks off. Heavy breathing likely results from strenuous activity...then someone with the virus is just spewing it everywhere. Gotta have air conditioning inside the facility? Virus ends up circulating. Or...if staff aren't thorough with disinfecting equipment/work out spaces where someone with virus was just letting it all out and around...

Image

This is obviously an example of virus spread from a restaurant in China at the start of the pandemic...but I think it applies to any indoor space with a working HVAC...

Look at how spending several hours in an enclosed space and maskless allows the air conditioning unit to spread all that **** around. I assume the people in that restaurant weren't huffing and puffing like after a fitness class, or while on a treadmill/bike/elliptical/rowing machine/bench press. They were just breathing in and out normally...and how many people ended getting the virus in that restaurant?

No matter how much social distancing in a gym...you are still indoors for hours on end, not wearing a mask (and there will be people NOT wearing masks despite mask policies) and likely respiring at an ever higher rate than normal...and the indoor air is being constantly recirculated.

You don't have to go to a gym in order to stay fit. In these next few weeks with the gyms closed...go for a walk/run or bike ride outdoors. Take advantage of the fall weather before the snow comes.


I'll try to answer to both posts with this.. My daytime job is a project manager but my part-time profession is fitness instructor/personal training. So I'm well aware of the climate of both the regular gym and group fitness classes.

To address the initial post about people coming from other regions, this just goes to show you how important physical health is for many people. From my many years of training people, do you know what the number one factor that determines their success or failure? It's not the program, it's not how good the instructor is (although that is important), it is not how good the facility is. It is their ability to adhere to a program, it is consistency. The way I see it, my job is to provide them with the knowledge and enthusiasm to exercise. The gym's job is to provide them with the equipment for a safe and effective exercise. The Government's job is to provide the availability for this to happen.

People are creatures of routine and when their routine gets interrupted, it could easily mess up many people leading them to completely fall off the wagon. I've seen this all the time. The club changes the time of 1 group fitness class by half an hour and bam, people's routine are out of whack and it totally messes them up. Imagine closing the gym for months, then allowing them back for 3 months then closing it again a 2nd time. This not only F's with your physical health but mental health as well.

About the sanitization practices inside of most gyms, you have to be masked when walking around. You can only unmask when exercising, which each station is properly social distanced. Even if you're going to fill up your water bottle (direct drinking from fountain is closed), you have to put on your mask. There are sanitization stations everywhere and you must wipe down all touchpoints of your equipment when finished. For exercises with heavy breathing such as cardio exercises, the distancing between cardio machines is even greater, where I work it's not every 2nd treadmill that is usable but every 3rd. The gyms that I work at also turn off all fans and A/C units and open windows if that is possible. I hope that restaurants should be doing this as well.

With this, as mentioned in an earlier post, the classes or types of activities that could lead to some concern are classes where there are many people packed into a small room, breathing heavily and sweating profusely, or classes that involve physical contact with another person. Those that immediately come to mind are Spin classes, Zumba classes, Muay Thai or BJJ with direct contact. I understand that some of these clubs have been able to function with non-contact exercises with other people. The large fitness club where I work have already cancelled all group fitness classes before the lockdown. There were zero incidents stemming from this club that I know of.

So in my opinion is that they could have just restricted certain types of classes while still allowing for people to work out in a conventional gym setting. About the people coming over to gyms from other regions, it didn't have to be. If the opened gyms follow proper safety protocol as I've mentioned and do not host group fitness classes then I don't see a problem with that. People need to maintain their health and sanity, not be cooped up in their homes with nowhere to go.


Well there's the problem. The 6 feet rule doesn't really apply when working out because working out causes people to breathe more heavily causing potential virus particles to travel even further than the projected 6 feet. Social distancing is supposed to work hand in hand with masks, when you take masks out of the equation, social distancing is not as effective especially during a task like working out. Then you have people sharing the same equipment, mix in the fact that it's an indoor facility and you have a potential cesspool. It makes sense that you think it's unfair since you work in one but you're not understanding why gyms are near the top of the list of high risk places. And it's not just here, gyms, movie theatres and restaurants/bars are usually the first to close in other countries.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(712 new cases Oct 16th) 

Post#705 » by Caboclo » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:58 pm

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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(712 new cases Oct 16th) 

Post#706 » by LoveMyRaps » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:50 pm

Caboclo wrote:https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-report-en-2020-10-17.pdf

805 new cases today


Next week should be interesting with the Thanksgiving cases rolling in
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(712 new cases Oct 16th) 

Post#707 » by JJWong17 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:47 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Caboclo wrote:https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-report-en-2020-10-17.pdf

805 new cases today


Next week should be interesting with the Thanksgiving cases rolling in

Also I believe there's an anti-mask protest going on right now so that might give us another bump in 4-5 day :|
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(805 new cases Oct 17th) 

Post#708 » by Basketball_Jones » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:25 pm

Huge protest crowds still gather, but let’s scape goat business owners. Can we not do something to go after these crowd gatherers? I feel like they are given a free pass to skirt the rules while others have to sacrifice
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#709 » by 13th Man » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:31 pm

execoftheyear wrote:Well there's the problem. The 6 feet rule doesn't really apply when working out because working out causes people to breathe more heavily causing potential virus particles to travel even further than the projected 6 feet. Social distancing is supposed to work hand in hand with masks, when you take masks out of the equation, social distancing is not as effective especially during a task like working out. Then you have people sharing the same equipment, mix in the fact that it's an indoor facility and you have a potential cesspool. It makes sense that you think it's unfair since you work in one but you're not understanding why gyms are near the top of the list of high risk places. And it's not just here, gyms, movie theatres and restaurants/bars are usually the first to close in other countries.


There is no data to support that, in fact these articles state the opposite:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/national-study-confirms-its-safe-to-work-out-at-the-gym-current-data-shows-no-evidence-of-covid-19-spread-in-gyms-301122664.html

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/02/making-gyms-safer-why-the-virus-is-less-likely-to-spread-there-than-in-a-bar/

There are hundreds if infections everyday, mostly from home and community spread. Until the Hamilton Spinco outbreak the gyms had been pretty safe. There was an outbreak in a nail salon in Kingston, are all nail salons closed now? I don't think so.

If there was a widespread issue with gyms all across Ontario being a problem then you might have a case but one incident and you show down all gyms?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(805 new cases Oct 17th) 

Post#710 » by mickie » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:02 pm

The problem in Canada is not just the virus.. it's these know-it-alls who think they know better than the medical experts who spent their entire professional lives dealing with viruses. These "entitled" individuals needs to stop and follow the protocols. You're not the only ones suffering buttercup.

Other countries were able to get a hold of the numbers because they follow their Government's oder right away..
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#711 » by execoftheyear » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:29 pm

13th Man wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:Well there's the problem. The 6 feet rule doesn't really apply when working out because working out causes people to breathe more heavily causing potential virus particles to travel even further than the projected 6 feet. Social distancing is supposed to work hand in hand with masks, when you take masks out of the equation, social distancing is not as effective especially during a task like working out. Then you have people sharing the same equipment, mix in the fact that it's an indoor facility and you have a potential cesspool. It makes sense that you think it's unfair since you work in one but you're not understanding why gyms are near the top of the list of high risk places. And it's not just here, gyms, movie theatres and restaurants/bars are usually the first to close in other countries.


There is no data to support that, in fact these articles state the opposite:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/national-study-confirms-its-safe-to-work-out-at-the-gym-current-data-shows-no-evidence-of-covid-19-spread-in-gyms-301122664.html

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/02/making-gyms-safer-why-the-virus-is-less-likely-to-spread-there-than-in-a-bar/

There are hundreds if infections everyday, mostly from home and community spread. Until the Hamilton Spinco outbreak the gyms had been pretty safe. There was an outbreak in a nail salon in Kingston, are all nail salons closed now? I don't think so.

If there was a widespread issue with gyms all across Ontario being a problem then you might have a case but one incident and you show down all gyms?


the difference is you're required to wear a mask a nail salon. At a gym like you said, people are taking off their masks while working out. Can't really compare the two.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(805 new cases Oct 17th) 

Post#712 » by Kingsway_fan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:49 pm

Welcome to Toronto, where a cafe is defined as having your coffee in your car :(

Yesterday, like 6 covid deaths, total, in a province of approx. 15 million people! ... indoor dining, cafes and theaters ordered shut down in Canada's largest city and Canadian capital of Ottawa. Looks like every third retail or commercial business has gone bankrupt and shut operations in many parts of Toronto. Political incompetence provincially and federally and gross stupidity shows no bounds in a country void of intelligent leadership.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(805 new cases Oct 17th) 

Post#713 » by mtcan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:36 pm

Kingsway_fan wrote:Welcome to Toronto, where a cafe is defined as having your coffee in your car :(

Yesterday, like 6 covid deaths, total, in a province of approx. 15 million people! ... indoor dining, cafes and theaters ordered shut down in Canada's largest city and Canadian capital of Ottawa. Looks like every third retail or commercial business has gone bankrupt and shut operations in many parts of Toronto. Political incompetence provincially and federally and gross stupidity shows no bounds in a country void of intelligent leadership.
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Speaking of know-nothings that think they are smarter than the rest of the world...

One day...one of those deaths will be you or someone you know...then the tune will change.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#714 » by 13th Man » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:47 pm

execoftheyear wrote:
13th Man wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:Well there's the problem. The 6 feet rule doesn't really apply when working out because working out causes people to breathe more heavily causing potential virus particles to travel even further than the projected 6 feet. Social distancing is supposed to work hand in hand with masks, when you take masks out of the equation, social distancing is not as effective especially during a task like working out. Then you have people sharing the same equipment, mix in the fact that it's an indoor facility and you have a potential cesspool. It makes sense that you think it's unfair since you work in one but you're not understanding why gyms are near the top of the list of high risk places. And it's not just here, gyms, movie theatres and restaurants/bars are usually the first to close in other countries.


There is no data to support that, in fact these articles state the opposite:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/national-study-confirms-its-safe-to-work-out-at-the-gym-current-data-shows-no-evidence-of-covid-19-spread-in-gyms-301122664.html

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/02/making-gyms-safer-why-the-virus-is-less-likely-to-spread-there-than-in-a-bar/

There are hundreds if infections everyday, mostly from home and community spread. Until the Hamilton Spinco outbreak the gyms had been pretty safe. There was an outbreak in a nail salon in Kingston, are all nail salons closed now? I don't think so.

If there was a widespread issue with gyms all across Ontario being a problem then you might have a case but one incident and you show down all gyms?


the difference is you're required to wear a mask a nail salon. At a gym like you said, people are taking off their masks while working out. Can't really compare the two.


I'm at the gym every single day and no of no cases here nor at any other gyms. I think it would even be worse at a salon, barbershop or especially at the dentist. The people working on you are right up close to you, the dentist or hygienist has work within close proximity with the other person having their mouth open and exhaling into them. I know barbers that wear cloth masks, you're going to tell me that's safer than socially distancing at a gym?

The point is there is no documented proof that gyms are a widespread problem (1 spin studio does not satisfy this) in Ontario. There is irreparable damage being done by proactively shutting them down all gyms, even the WHO has come out with an official statement stating as much. Not only a huge economical impact to small business and community but a huge impact to the well being of the people. This goes with indoor dining as far as I'm concerned during the day. They could have easily just imposed a curfew which would have eliminated most of the main threats.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(805 new cases Oct 17th) 

Post#715 » by Vaclac » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:54 pm

mtcan wrote:
One day...one of those deaths will be you or someone you know...then the tune will change.


Excellent point. I assume you support banning motor vehicles, or if you don't its because you don't know any of the 2,000 canadians killed each year including about 300 pedestrians who didn't even take the risk of getting in cars themselves. After all, the only way you could care about the costs incurred by such a life-saving measure is if you just didn't care enough about human life.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(805 new cases Oct 17th) 

Post#716 » by mtcan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:31 pm

Vaclac wrote:
mtcan wrote:
One day...one of those deaths will be you or someone you know...then the tune will change.


Excellent point. I assume you support banning motor vehicles, or if you don't its because you don't know any of the 2,000 canadians killed each year including about 300 pedestrians who didn't even take the risk of getting in cars themselves. After all, the only way you could care about the costs incurred by such a life-saving measure is if you just didn't care enough about human life.

I do support wearing seat belts to limit the risk of dying and looking both ways before crossing. I'm not seeing 600-800 car accidents per day and the risk of ICUs filling up with trauma patients and crippling the health care system. If that happens...ban the cars.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#717 » by execoftheyear » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:15 am

13th Man wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:
13th Man wrote:
There is no data to support that, in fact these articles state the opposite:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/national-study-confirms-its-safe-to-work-out-at-the-gym-current-data-shows-no-evidence-of-covid-19-spread-in-gyms-301122664.html

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/02/making-gyms-safer-why-the-virus-is-less-likely-to-spread-there-than-in-a-bar/

There are hundreds if infections everyday, mostly from home and community spread. Until the Hamilton Spinco outbreak the gyms had been pretty safe. There was an outbreak in a nail salon in Kingston, are all nail salons closed now? I don't think so.

If there was a widespread issue with gyms all across Ontario being a problem then you might have a case but one incident and you show down all gyms?


the difference is you're required to wear a mask a nail salon. At a gym like you said, people are taking off their masks while working out. Can't really compare the two.


I'm at the gym every single day and no of no cases here nor at any other gyms. I think it would even be worse at a salon, barbershop or especially at the dentist. The people working on you are right up close to you, the dentist or hygienist has work within close proximity with the other person having their mouth open and exhaling into them. I know barbers that wear cloth masks, you're going to tell me that's safer than socially distancing at a gym?

The point is there is no documented proof that gyms are a widespread problem (1 spin studio does not satisfy this) in Ontario. There is irreparable damage being done by proactively shutting them down all gyms, even the WHO has come out with an official statement stating as much. Not only a huge economical impact to small business and community but a huge impact to the well being of the people. This goes with indoor dining as far as I'm concerned during the day. They could have easily just imposed a curfew which would have eliminated most of the main threats.


Yes, because masks are that effective. Japan's subways packed full of people with little to no social distancing but with majority of people wearing masks speaks volumes to me about their effectiveness. Or that nail salon that had workers that tested positive and none of the customers getting infected because the workers that tested positive wore masks. Any indoor place that involves an activity where people are required to take their masks off will always be a higher risk environment than one that doesn't require one to take it off.

Besides being an essential service, the measures in place during a dental appointment is really strict (at least at the one I go to). They space out appointments and have machines in between appointments that clear the air after every serviced patient for half an hour. Talking is kept to a minimum where the patient gives a simple nod or head shake to answer questions. The dentist and assistant wear masks AND face shields. And every time the patient isn't getting their mouth worked on, they're required to put on their mask. I felt pretty safe with all these elaborate measures in place.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#718 » by 13th Man » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:24 am

execoftheyear wrote:
13th Man wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:
the difference is you're required to wear a mask a nail salon. At a gym like you said, people are taking off their masks while working out. Can't really compare the two.


I'm at the gym every single day and no of no cases here nor at any other gyms. I think it would even be worse at a salon, barbershop or especially at the dentist. The people working on you are right up close to you, the dentist or hygienist has work within close proximity with the other person having their mouth open and exhaling into them. I know barbers that wear cloth masks, you're going to tell me that's safer than socially distancing at a gym?

The point is there is no documented proof that gyms are a widespread problem (1 spin studio does not satisfy this) in Ontario. There is irreparable damage being done by proactively shutting them down all gyms, even the WHO has come out with an official statement stating as much. Not only a huge economical impact to small business and community but a huge impact to the well being of the people. This goes with indoor dining as far as I'm concerned during the day. They could have easily just imposed a curfew which would have eliminated most of the main threats.


Yes, because masks are that effective. Japan's subways packed full of people with little to no social distancing but with majority of people wearing masks speaks volumes to me about their effectiveness. Or that nail salon that had workers that tested positive and none of the customers getting infected because the workers that tested positive wore masks. Any indoor place that involves an activity where people are required to take their masks off will always be a higher risk environment than one that doesn't require one to take it off.

Besides being an essential service, the measures in place during a dental appointment is really strict (at least at the one I go to). They space out appointments and have machines in between appointments that clear the air after every serviced patient for half an hour. Talking is kept to a minimum where the patient gives a simple nod or head shake to answer questions. The dentist and assistant wear masks AND face shields. And every time the patient isn't getting their mouth worked on, they're required to put on their mask.


Recent reports by the CDC indicate otherwise regarding the effectiveness of cloth masks. Anyway, we've been down this road before and I don't want to go in circles. We'll just have to disagree.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#719 » by execoftheyear » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:04 am

13th Man wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:
13th Man wrote:
I'm at the gym every single day and no of no cases here nor at any other gyms. I think it would even be worse at a salon, barbershop or especially at the dentist. The people working on you are right up close to you, the dentist or hygienist has work within close proximity with the other person having their mouth open and exhaling into them. I know barbers that wear cloth masks, you're going to tell me that's safer than socially distancing at a gym?

The point is there is no documented proof that gyms are a widespread problem (1 spin studio does not satisfy this) in Ontario. There is irreparable damage being done by proactively shutting them down all gyms, even the WHO has come out with an official statement stating as much. Not only a huge economical impact to small business and community but a huge impact to the well being of the people. This goes with indoor dining as far as I'm concerned during the day. They could have easily just imposed a curfew which would have eliminated most of the main threats.


Yes, because masks are that effective. Japan's subways packed full of people with little to no social distancing but with majority of people wearing masks speaks volumes to me about their effectiveness. Or that nail salon that had workers that tested positive and none of the customers getting infected because the workers that tested positive wore masks. Any indoor place that involves an activity where people are required to take their masks off will always be a higher risk environment than one that doesn't require one to take it off.

Besides being an essential service, the measures in place during a dental appointment is really strict (at least at the one I go to). They space out appointments and have machines in between appointments that clear the air after every serviced patient for half an hour. Talking is kept to a minimum where the patient gives a simple nod or head shake to answer questions. The dentist and assistant wear masks AND face shields. And every time the patient isn't getting their mouth worked on, they're required to put on their mask.


Recent reports by the CDC indicate otherwise regarding the effectiveness of cloth masks. Anyway, we've been down this road before and I don't want to go in circles. We'll just have to disagree.


So what is your argument exactly? Do you believe masks work or not? Obviously some materials are more effective than others but what's the point in bringing that up when we're comparing places that involve activities where masks are required to be taken off vs kept on. Cloth masks are still better than no masks if that's what you're arguing.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread ***(783 new cases Oct 15th) 

Post#720 » by ItsDanger » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:33 am

execoftheyear wrote:
13th Man wrote:
execoftheyear wrote:
Yes, because masks are that effective. Japan's subways packed full of people with little to no social distancing but with majority of people wearing masks speaks volumes to me about their effectiveness. Or that nail salon that had workers that tested positive and none of the customers getting infected because the workers that tested positive wore masks. Any indoor place that involves an activity where people are required to take their masks off will always be a higher risk environment than one that doesn't require one to take it off.

Besides being an essential service, the measures in place during a dental appointment is really strict (at least at the one I go to). They space out appointments and have machines in between appointments that clear the air after every serviced patient for half an hour. Talking is kept to a minimum where the patient gives a simple nod or head shake to answer questions. The dentist and assistant wear masks AND face shields. And every time the patient isn't getting their mouth worked on, they're required to put on their mask.


Recent reports by the CDC indicate otherwise regarding the effectiveness of cloth masks. Anyway, we've been down this road before and I don't want to go in circles. We'll just have to disagree.


So what is your argument exactly? Do you believe masks work or not? Obviously some materials are more effective than others but what's the point in bringing that up when we're comparing places that involve activities where masks are required to be taken off vs kept on. Cloth masks are still better than no masks if that's what you're arguing.

Terrible video, only for children. Variables to include are time, space, viral load, amongst others His 50% efficacy could be for 30 minutes? Now double that to 1 hr, even 2 hrs, his basic explanation disintegrates. Let alone in smaller rooms. etc etc etc. Its time for other professionals to educate the doctors on statistical analysis. There are several thousand in Toronto alone who are better than them.
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